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I have been tracking this thread including 14/15... maybe my comprehension of the written word is not as good; feel free to spell out your ideas/thoughts as to why US will OR will not do something?
Am I correct in sensing that my Indian friends have made some premature assumptions about what US will NEVER do and then gone public with 600+ technical criteria based decision that informs premier American defence companies that they are just not as good as the LAST Gaullist experiment?
Consider this; if I had written on this forum on 12th September 2001, "in less than a decade Indian mirage 2000H will have to contend with newest vipers armed with AIM 120 in its own backyard".......one of you guys would have said read such and such as to why that would NEVER happen. Another would have said Oh! I am shaking in my blue suedes! .......you get what I am putting down?
So if Indians want to play the old game and be on their own ( but using French equipment) that s fine. US can also play another old game it calls keeping the strategic regional balance intact for peace.
Of course US could play a new game and make Bangladesh Or Sri Lanka its new best friend.
Did you guys know that Karzai is asking for F16s too? ...Now walk that logic through.............to the end.
And yes US has supplied Red China with weapons in the past. You or anyone else cannot predict the future on that.
When US gets exasperated it does take matters into its own hands. Dare I say Abbottabad?
But that will NOT define future US - Pakistan relations. Let's wait and see!!!
Well i am still talking about the context - i.e. "Loss of American Jobs"....Why you think i was all over the place....This was your claim..You're all over the place, what does visa abuse or illegal immigration have to do with outsourcing?
The US has already rolled back some of the 'clean' nuclear exemptions made to India in 2008, there is more to come including visa fees of 2,000 dollars aimed specifically at Indian workers.
India has not delivered on its promise to open up its market, it has raised new barriers to US business.
As for technical reasons for the elimination of American aircrafts, the two American firms have as recently as le bourget 2011 stated they have not received any clarification.
If America really want to be close.. it should have been F-35 in the first case... F-35 getting offered now at the end of contest is totally a set back for both US and India... Secondly even if F-35 is offered foregoing money.. how will they satisfy the offset?.. because 200 of them is nearly a good deal for US... as we will become the second w.r.t to the number
There will be plenty of banging for buck, now that the IAF has shortlisted two overpriced EuroCanardsDBC, indications are that US fighters easily scored over their European counterparts in electronics. Rafael or Typhoon is superior in the long term --- you may mock their bang for buck.
You seem to be getting increasingly angry these days. Please do not forget that Nixon threatened India in '71. How do you think that a traditionally non-aligned country like India will get locked in an embrace with US so quickly?
You also do not seem to understand the dynamics of corruption. Just because corruption is prevalent at all levels it does not automatically mean that corruption can compromise national security.
Again that is your perception...We believe we have made the right choice....Don't underestimate the negogiation skills of Indians...we have done that throughout of our lives because we are a poor nation...We are no west who can afford to loose some money here and there.....There will be plenty of banging for buck, now that the IAF has shortlisted two overpriced EuroCanards
USAF was flying sorties over Delhi in 1962/63 to help Nehru sleep better at night after the beating India took at the hands of the Chinese - what's your point?
Upto you to believe it or not... but as said before - this is the most transparent defense deal in Indian History......er ok
DBC my personal impression about you as a poster is that you are reasonable but do get a bit arrogant and stubborn on certain points...
Another claim.....the history that i have read makes me believe that we requested for the help but that help never arrived..the damage was already done...would appreciate if you can share some data about flying sorties...b/w the year would be 61/62....
This initiative, I believe, was a follow on from the 1962 Chinese military incursion into NEFA, Sikkim and Ladakh. A military show of strength with the presence of the US Navy Fleet in the Bay of Bengal and an Air exercise called "Shiksha" was brought together. Fighter and Bomber units from the USAF, RAF and the IAF engaged in War simulation activities along the northern ring of bases from Baghdogra and Kalaikunda in the east to Pathankot in the west.
Upto you to believe it or not... but as said before - this is the most transparent defense deal in Indian History....
I am not sure even if they offer F-35 they would have won...Understand the need of MRCA Deal....The time frame is important as well...Our Migs are depleting very fast and we need to plug the gap...We cannot wait for eternity...If F-35 is on offer then we might got for it(which i doubt because of so many 5 generation fighter programs - may be the naval version) but not as part of MRCA...The $11 billion is not the only money we have...
I don't have a problem with the IAF opting for European fighters, I do believe the MMRCA competition was a farce, it is clear to everyone including vendors like Dassault that the decision to exclude US fighters was political. But unfortunately no one in India has the courage to admit it was a political decision and instead Indians choose to hide behind an IAF evaluation report no one has seen.
I don't have a problem with the IAF opting for European fighters, I do believe the MMRCA competition was a farce, it is clear to everyone including vendors like Dassault that the decision to exclude US fighters was political. But unfortunately no one in India has the courage to admit it was a political decision and instead Indians choose to hide behind an IAF evaluation report no one has seen.
The MMRCA down select has me convinced strategic relations with India is a waste of time. India does not trust the US and never will, I think the Administration is reaching the same conclusion.
USAF was flying sorties over Delhi in 1962/63 to help Nehru sleep better at night after the beating India took at the hands of the Chinese - what's your point?
I don't have a problem with the IAF opting for European fighters, I do believe the MMRCA competition was a farce, it is clear to everyone including vendors like Dassault that the decision to exclude US fighters was political.
But unfortunately no one in India has the courage to admit it was a political decision and instead Indians choose to hide behind an IAF evaluation report no one has seen.
The MMRCA down select has me convinced strategic relations with India is a waste of time. India does not trust the US and never will, I think the Administration is reaching the same conclusion.
As things stand, I'd embrace Pakistan give them the strategic depth they crave in Afghanistan and get out. At the same time exert every effort to improve Pakistan's economy, give them a nuclear deal and plenty of military equipment to secure Pakistan against India.
Those records are not public and have been kept out of the public domain at the request of the government of India. I know someone who flew his SABRE with the 352nd Tactical Fighter Squadron out of Palam air force base in Delhi.
Here is a narrative from a former Indian Airforce Pilot
Have you???? Do you even know how much time has been spent on evaluating the fighters??? This is the first deal of its kind in India where things are done so openly....b/w it is foolish to say that there is no political leverage being seeked...In the same token it is foolish to say that US was denied the deal due to politics....The first preference has been given to technical evaluation. Had it been pure politics you would have seen US fighter's winning it...In fact even the critics(experts in defense) in India don't challenge the technical evaluation...they wanted US to win even though there fighters were not as potent as the chosen one because of geo-political leverage...How do you know its transparent? Have you seen the evaluation report?
But reward Pakistan at your peril. I cannot fathom how after all these years you seem to trust Pakistan more than India --- after all the barbs US and Pakistan regularly trade. Pakistanis have moved irreversibly away from you.
I shall not go any more off-topic as this space has been hijacked.