Rafale deal in its final stages: IAF chief Raha

[Arshad mahmood Hussain]

Final final stages?

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Malaysia says reviewing French proposal for Rafale fighter jets
Source: Reuters - Tue, 1 Sep 2015 10:25 GMT
Author: Reuters
KUALA LUMPUR, Sept 1 (Reuters) - Malaysia is reviewing a proposal from France to buy Rafale fighter jets but any decision would depend on how affordable the aircraft are, Defence Minister Hishammuddin Hussein said on Tuesday.

Malaysia, which wants to replace its fleet of Russian MiG-29 fighters, is said to be looking at the Rafale, Boeing's F/A-18, Swedish firm Saab's Gripen and the Eurofighter Typhoon.

French manufacturer Dassault Aviation, which builds the Rafale, is said to be in talks with Malaysia to supply 16 of the multi-role combat jets.

"It's too soon to announce anything about it," Hishammuddin told a joint news conference with French Defence Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian in the Malaysian capital.

"It's part and parcel of the industry and it's a proposal we look at and I have been very transparent with the Malaysian public that it's a question of affordability," he added, when asked about Malaysia's interest in the fighter jet.

A Malaysian decision had been expected this year, but aviation industry executives have warned that fiscal troubles stemming from lower prices for oil and commodities could lead to delays in placing the order.

Hishammuddin also said he had no discussions on Tuesday with his French counterpart on the procurement of Mistral helicopter carriers, which the French are trying to sell.

France last year suspended the sale of two Mistral warships to Russia, after coming under pressure from its Western allies over Russia's role in the Ukraine crisis.

President Francois Hollande has said there were a number of potential buyers for the carriers. Countries said to be interested in the helicopter carrier included Malaysia, Brazil, Singapore, Canada and Egypt.

Malaysia says reviewing French proposal for Rafale fighter jets

a joint news conference with French Defence Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian in the Malaysian capital.
French DM is in Malaysia.. so any news abt he cmg over to india or eric trappier cmg here?

 

[Makaramarma]

French do not seem to realize one simple fact. If India buys it, it provide rest of the smaller nations to buy it. But if India shies away, other nations too think twice.

They just d not want to acknowledge India's soft power. Maybe one of these days they will think with their head rather than their heart to see things for what they are.

 

[sathya]

French do not seem to realize one simple fact. If India buys it, it provide rest of the smaller nations to but it. But if India shies away, other nations too think twice.

They just d not want to acknowledge India's soft power. Maybe one of these days they will think with their head rather than their heart to see things for what they are.

We can't say that now , since Egypt and Qatar bought it already ..
France wouldn't be worried about 36 , they would be for the 90

 

[Makaramarma]

We can't say that now , since Egypt and Qatar bought it already ..
France wouldn't be worried about 36 , they would be for the 90

Both Egypt and Qatar brought it AFTER India said Rafale won the deal and we will be buying 126 aircrafts.

Just see the pattern of Su-30 Sales globally to understand how it works.

 

[zambino]

Aaj ka din bhi gaya..

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Actually egypt deal being bankrolled by France does not entice too good views among the Dassault management. As such the egypt credit worthiness is just one step above Greece thus from the perspective of the Egypt order, you dont get comfort other than saying they are historic first customer for export. Qatar may be the one where they will make money surely.. and Management are comfortable with such a order. malaysia is a rich country witha dequate resources but fall of commoditties and Oil makes them also look at a packaged deal in the lines of Egypt. But malaysia historically have always bought some fighters which are already with either of USA and russia or bought heavily by India implying either US tech (which they want to upgrade anyways now) or a firm order from India (a la similar approach to Su30 MKI becoming MKM) will essentially mean not just 16 orders but may be another 16 as followup... It must be mentioned Malasian Air force and IAF are pretty close and they do lot more technical cooperation than what other nations do with Malaysia (except USA or Russia)

Thus, a order confirmation and signed with India (36 or the whole package- 90+36) augurs very well for Dassault and brightens its prospects manifold with malaysia. A story similar to the success of Su30 with both the countries...

My only surprise is why Malaysia is not interested for F35 like say Singapore as both these countries are pretty close to USA and Malaysia is trying to offload old US hardwares now. So France definitely stands to gain much more via Indian deal and peripheral more deals due to large order with India.

 

[sathya]

Both Egypt and Qatar brought it AFTER India said Rafale won the deal and we will be buying 126 aircrafts.

Just see the pattern of Su-30 Sales globally to understand how it works.

Yes very much , MODI did his trick,
Egypt and Qatar ordered
Price of rafale may have reduced because of those orders.
Now it's our turn..
I am sure we will buy Rafale or otherwise credibility of Our PM promise will be at stake..

 

[Makaramarma]

Yes very much , MODI did his trick,
Egypt and Qatar ordered
Price of rafale may have reduced because of those orders.
Now it's our turn..
I am sure we will buy Rafale or otherwise credibility of Our PM promise will be at stake..

Modi was not trying any trick. ..... it was Dassault who missed a trick or two. Rafale buy will go only when France offer a win win for India. Modi is unlikely to consider this a litmus test for his credibility.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Egypt and Qatar are not Modi tricks.. Thats as good as insulting Dassault Sales team of doing nothing and India doing their sales instead.. lol...
Modi's trick could be only if he succeeds in getting Make in India part of 90 birds with terms better than MMRCA original stipulations (like TOT etc) or else the tender cancellation just for name sake and restructuring for political reasons would ghit his image

DAC briefed about Rafale negotiations, gives go ahead
IANS | New Delhi September 1, 2015 Last Updated at 21:02 IST

he negotiation committee on purchasing Rafale combat jets for the Indian Air Force (IAF) has been given the 'go ahead' by the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC), defence ministry officials said on Tuesday.

Officials said the deal was "on course", and the negotiations will go on.

"The negotiation committee briefed the DAC about the progress so far," a ministry source said after a DAC meeting on Tuesday.

"The DAC has given its go ahead to them," the source said, refusing to elaborate.

India announced it will buy 36 Rafale jets from France during Prime Minister Narendra Modi's visit in April.

Sources said there were "no roadblocks" in the deal.
DAC briefed about Rafale negotiations, gives go ahead | Business Standard News

@Abingdonboy its coming finally.... cheers

 

[Abingdonboy]

DAC briefed about Rafale negotiations, gives go ahead
IANS | New Delhi September 1, 2015 Last Updated at 21:02 IST

he negotiation committee on purchasing Rafale combat jets for the Indian Air Force (IAF) has been given the 'go ahead' by the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC), defence ministry officials said on Tuesday.

Officials said the deal was "on course", and the negotiations will go on.

"The negotiation committee briefed the DAC about the progress so far," a ministry source said after a DAC meeting on Tuesday.

"The DAC has given its go ahead to them," the source said, refusing to elaborate.

India announced it will buy 36 Rafale jets from France during Prime Minister Narendra Modi's visit in April.

Sources said there were "no roadblocks" in the deal.
DAC briefed about Rafale negotiations, gives go ahead | Business Standard News

@Abingdonboy its coming finally.... cheers

"No roadblocks", a stark change to the doom and gloom the media was reporting a few weeks back citing "unnamed sources".....


+ apparently the DAC has also cleared a further 48 Mi-17V5s for the IAF.

 

[Indian Patriot]

Nope. 126-189 Rafales are on the way- nothing else is being considered anymore.

GOI says only 36 will be ordered

 

[zambino]

GOI says only 36 will be ordered

36 in fly away condition from france rest 90 will be assembled here. With a option of 63 more and that option wilk be exercised for sure. Rafale will become the backbone of our ground strike fighters in future.

 

[Indian Patriot]

36 in fly away condition from france rest 90 will be assembled here. With a option of 63 more and that option wilk be exercised for sure. Rafale will become the backbone of our ground strike fighters in future.

The Rafale was cancelled from 126 to only 36.

Provide sources for your claims if the truth is otherwise.

 

[Ind4Ever]

some interesting development

Rafale Fighters, Mistral Aircraft Carrier Not On Malaysian Purchase List

Malaysian defense minister omitted mentioning big purchases like Rafale fighter jets and Mistral aircraft carrier ahead of French Defense Minister’s visit to the nation.

Malaysian defense minister, Hishammuddin Hussein said last Friday, “Malaysia will proceed with acquiring armed forces’ assets under the 11th Malaysian plan despite current economic challenges. Upgrading of the ‘Nuri’ Sikorsky S-61A-4 helicopter, Hercules C-130, Admiral Class Corvette and the acquisition of other assets for the three wings of the armed forces (ATM)”.

“The economic situation will not harm the core of the ministry's "business" which was to ensure national security and boost the morale of ATM personnel and its veterans,” he said.

Hishammuddin omitted to mention big purchases highlighted in French defense news portals about the possible purchase of one of the Mistral aircraft carriers ordered by Russia which was cancelled by France citing Ukraine crisis.

The cost of buying and running just one of these Mistral warships will be cost Malaysia a minimum of RM4 billion (USD $1 billion) at the very least.

“It can be done in the near future, and with transparency. The assets are not cheap, and it must be accepted by the public. It must be something that we need, but at the same time we must be realistic on whether or not we can afford it,” Hishammuddin said.

The French defense minister is reported to be in talks with Malaysia to sell us one of these Mistral aircraft carriers, International media reported earlier last week.

France is likely to pitch for the sale of Dassault Rafale fighters to Malaysia under a financial package.

Dassault had offered a 10 year financial package to Malaysia from a French bank guaranteed by the government of France for procurement of its Rafale fighter jet at the Langkawi International Maritime and Aerospace (LIMA) exhibition earlier this year.

Dassault Chief Executive Officer Eric Trappier had expressed willingness to have a long term business deal in Malaysia. He had said that Dassault is looking at different types of industrial packages that includes final assembly line of aircraft, production of some parts, development, maintenance and support to local industries if they were willing to collaborate with them.

According to Hishammuddin, the acquisition can only be carried out if the financial package offered fulfilled the requirements set by the Finance Ministry.

"If it is within our ability, I would like the acquisition to be considered. The technical aspects will be accessed by the air force.

"The economic viability and buying power is under the purview of the Finance Ministry," he said.

With fiscal troubles due to low oil and commodity prices, Malaysia might delay its decision to buy fighter jets, local reports said.
However a French government financial package, along the lines of what sealed the deal with Egypt might tempt Kuala Lumpur which needs new aircraft to serve as deterrence against Chinese aggressive maneuvers in the South China Sea.

Rafale Fighters, Mistral Aircraft Carrier Not On Malaysian Purchase List


@Abingdonboy @Ind4Ever @SpArK @MilSpec

if the report is accurate, it clearly points two things which can be positive for india (i am inferring)
1. Most likely India's request for customisations and 50% offset may be accepted by Dassault
2. The indian rafale deal 36 and perhaps even more follow on becomes vital as Dassault shifts production rate up to 33 over next few years. The Made in India Component is also very vital as the possible other sales may get dealyed, so there is a bigger chance that Dassault may agree for assembly of Rafales in India with TOT (inspite of TOT being labelled at say 50% so perhaps more of non critical nature)

I do strangely now feel confident that Eric Trappier and President Hollande will ensure this deal and the 90 make in India will be done soon perhaps the 36 component in next few days when Eric Trappier visits Malaysia and drops by India when he is returning from malaysia. I also do see that 36 number may get upgraded to 36+18 = 54 now only in case Malaysia order is not thr as firm commitment for higher production rate becomes paramount.

I sincerely feels this is the time India should firmly grab the opportunity and get the best bargain possible in coming few days few weeks opportunity window..

@Gabriel92 @halloweene Hey guys you hearing any new thing by your local news reports..

Bhai did u read latest reports on price tag for 36 rafale ? whopping 8-9 billion $ . Same price they quoted for qatar air force !!!
Now where is @Abingdonboy who believes India will buy 180-200 rafale with ToT !!! 36 jets without ToT 8-9 billion $ .

Lets not carried away this bullisg deal . Lets go far 36 Rafale (additional 18 to form 3 Squadrons. And place order for PakFa say 60-80 . Let this be realised till 2022 .Mean while focus should be on Tejas MK1-P atleast 60-80 in numbers . So by 2022 we will have very impressive fighter fleet with 80 tejas ,80 pakfa,52 Rafale to retire our old migs !!! And move on with MK 2 , FGFA , Super Sukois ,

Yes very much , MODI did his trick,
Egypt and Qatar ordered
Price of rafale may have reduced because of those orders.
Now it's our turn..
I am sure we will buy Rafale or otherwise credibility of Our PM promise will be at stake..

That's why we will buy it ! MMRCA selection is totally Flaud ! One could wonder how Rafale selected as Lowest bidder ? 36 Rafale is a face saver deal to improve ties between two nation ,.. Its alright .French might invest atleast 30 -5-% as offset . Even if its not rafale parts but surely their private jets supply line