قہر برپا کیا تم نے نبیﷺکا نام لے کر

[El Sidd]

I blame Arabs for not translating Quran into different languages themselves and leaving that job for non Arabs, Arabic was / is their language they should have taken the charge but they didn't. Result lot of nonsensical interpretations and translations. Forget that they themselves forgot the message.

Quite a balanced perspective you have managed here for the neutral observer. But I may disagree on the above for the sake of understanding the matter.
You seem to take the Arabic language quite lightly. The Quranic arabic is different to every dialect commonly spoken in the arabic world. Quran actually uses a very ancient dialect of arabic considered the most pure and only carried through by the nomads of Hejaz.
You cannot possibly blame Arabs for not translating the Quran by understanding the errors done by their forefathers in trying to translate Aramaic Hebrew to Latin. It will also be a grave mistake to limit the translation of Quran from the translators limited sense of understanding.
So I would rather blame the non Arabs for not learning the language rather the other way round.

I blame Persians for they stick to false history and divide Muslims based on that. They still cry foul foul for something that may not even have happened 1400 years ago. Plus that feeling of humiliation of being defeated by lesser civilised people is still their .......... that may sometimes take shape of craving for the past glory days and empire. Rebellion against Mullah in Iran is visible too.

Persians are not to be blamed for something which is more political in nature than divine.

.

 

[I.R.A]

@El Sidd your view (you missed quoting properly)

"Quite a balanced perspective you have managed here for the neutral observer. But I may disagree on the above for the sake of understanding the matter.
You seem to take the Arabic language quite lightly. The Quranic arabic is different to every dialect commonly spoken in the arabic world. Quran actually uses a very ancient dialect of arabic considered the most pure and only carried through by the nomads of Hejaz.
You cannot possibly blame Arabs for not translating the Quran by understanding the errors done by their forefathers in trying to translate Aramaic Hebrew to Latin. It will also be a grave mistake to limit the translation of Quran from the translators limited sense of understanding.
So I would rather blame the non Arabs for not learning the language rather the other way round."

My understanding .......... well if you ask a Person who is fluent in Punjabi if he can understand what a Hindko speaking person has said in Hindko......... I am sure he will reply in positive as compared to someone suppose who speaks Farsi. The risk of loosing the original message is more with Farsi speaking person trying to translate a message in Hindko rather than a Punjabi speaking doing the translation of the same message. I hope I am making some sense.

To learn Arabic ........... well not all of us can manage that ............ and the ones who are lucky enough would still have to learn it from someone who is fluent in Arabic or is an Arab.

Your view
"Persians are not to be blamed for something which is more political in nature than divine. "

My understanding ...... This political conflict was turned into religious one long back centuries ago.

 

[El Sidd]

@El Sidd your view (you missed quoting properly)

"Quite a balanced perspective you have managed here for the neutral observer. But I may disagree on the above for the sake of understanding the matter.
You seem to take the Arabic language quite lightly. The Quranic arabic is different to every dialect commonly spoken in the arabic world. Quran actually uses a very ancient dialect of arabic considered the most pure and only carried through by the nomads of Hejaz.
You cannot possibly blame Arabs for not translating the Quran by understanding the errors done by their forefathers in trying to translate Aramaic Hebrew to Latin. It will also be a grave mistake to limit the translation of Quran from the translators limited sense of understanding.
So I would rather blame the non Arabs for not learning the language rather the other way round."

My understanding .......... well if you ask a Person who is fluent in Punjabi if he can understand what a Hindko speaking person has said in Hindko......... I am sure he will reply in positive as compared to someone suppose who speaks Farsi. The risk of loosing the original message is more with Farsi speaking person trying to translate a message in Hindko rather than a Punjabi speaking doing the translation of the same message. I hope I am making some sense.

To learn Arabic ........... well not all of us can manage that ............ and the ones who are lucky enough would still have to learn it from someone who is fluent in Arabic or is an Arab.

Your view
"Persians are not to be blamed for something which is more political in nature than divine. "

My understanding ...... This political conflict was turned into religious one long back centuries ago.

I understand the gist of what you are trying to convey but do keep in mind that Allah chose Arabic to convey his message on purpose because Arabic to a certain extent do justice with Quran.

It is to keep the search for knowledge and the thirst for understanding alive that Arabic was chosen. So you cannot just undo the beauty by translating it to a less developed language.

And investing time for the cause of knowledge is considered 'prayer' so I only see advantages in trying to learn Arabic. It also serves as a galvanizing tool for the masses just like Urdu in Pakistan.

Regarding Persians. If the matter turned from Politics to Religion than we both agree that the problem lies on with the Persians but with the politics. And this 'difference' or this conflict to a common Muslim is irrelevant no matter what.

 

[I.R.A]

I understand the gist of what you are trying to convey but do keep in mind that Allah chose Arabic to convey his message on purpose because Arabic to a certain extent do justice with Quran.

Bayshak bayshak ......... such symmetry, such arrangement, such rhythm, such coherent verses ...... even musicians would find it strange and beautiful.

It is to keep the search for knowledge and the thirst for understanding alive that Arabic was chosen. So you cannot just undo the beauty by translating it to a less developed language.

And investing time for the cause of knowledge is considered 'prayer' so I only see advantages in trying to learn Arabic. It also serves as a galvanizing tool for the masses just like Urdu in Pakistan.

What about people who don't even get to learn Urdu? Wouldn't it exclude the unfortunate ones in any society? Instead of opening and financing madrassahs everywhere that oil wealth could have been utilized to open proper Arabic learning centers. I understand what you are saying but wouldn't it exclude people who cannot even afford to send their children to proper schools?

Regarding Persians. If the matter turned from Politics to Religion than we both agree that the problem lies on with the Persians but with the politics. And this 'difference' or this conflict to a common Muslim is irrelevant no matter what.

Common Muslim's say was snatched long ago when ways for bringing back kings to rule were reestablished. As long as they (parties to conflict) keep serving their respective religions we are not going to get out of this quagmire, despite having every natural resource, despite having young capable manpower ........ Muslim world fails, and on top of it they don't care to look at reason for failure.

 

[padamchen]

I like the Arabic schools idea.

Sadly here in India that soon morphs into or becomes a metaphor for a madrassa.

And more often than not, radicalisation.

Even my Muslim friends who honestly want to learn Arabic for the same reason, scoped and found out private tutors to come to their homes to teach.

Even there one chap turned out to be a fundo, so it's difficult separating the two.

Wonder if it's easier in Pakistan.

 

[El Sidd]

What about people who don't even get to learn Urdu? Wouldn't it exclude the unfortunate ones in any society? Instead of opening and financing madrassahs everywhere that oil wealth could have been utilized to open proper Arabic learning centers. I understand what you are saying but wouldn't it exclude people who cannot even afford to send their children to proper schools?
Common Muslim's say was snatched long ago when ways for bringing back kings to rule were reestablished. As long as they (parties to conflict) keep serving their respective religions we are not going to get out of this quagmire, despite having every natural resource, despite having young capable manpower ........ Muslim world fails, and on top of it they don't care to look at reason for failure.

It is a duty for every Muslim to spread the message i.e. Quran. It has everything we would need in the short term and in the long term. The problem occurs when so called 'bearers' feel insecure as they know they will lose hold on the flock of lambs if they educate them.
Learning a foreign language has so much positives, like logically the more language you know the more you can communicate better.
If you do not help yourself, no one will help you. That is also a clear message from the Quran and through this one can understand why those who are suffering the most are in this state.

 

[Muhammad29psy]

It is a duty for every Muslim to spread the message i.e. Quran. It has everything we would need in the short term and in the long term. The problem occurs when so called 'bearers' feel insecure as they know they will lose hold on the flock of lambs if they educate them.
Learning a foreign language has so much positives, like logically the more language you know the more you can communicate better.
If you do not help yourself, no one will help you. That is also a clear message from the Quran and through this one can understand why those who are suffering the most are in this state.

Very clear an optimistic view. I really appreciate your approach.

 

[El Sidd]

Very clear an optimistic view. I really appreciate your approach.

Thanks. It is just a view from an ordinary Muslim.

 

[Verve]

I don't understand why people refer so much to Sacred Scriptures regarding this matter. There is something called 'common logical sense' - use it.

Secondly, there are many things which aren't in the Scriptures and we are expected to use our own initiative

Importance of Quran is lost to some!

Comparing knowledge (ilm) from Quran with creation of clock, mobile phones etc ...

Oh well.

It is a duty for every Muslim to spread the message i.e. Quran. It has everything we would need in the short term and in the long term. The problem occurs when so called 'bearers' feel insecure as they know they will lose hold on the flock of lambs if they educate them.
Learning a foreign language has so much positives, like logically the more language you know the more you can communicate better.
If you do not help yourself, no one will help you. That is also a clear message from the Quran and through this one can understand why those who are suffering the most are in this state.

Beautifully said. Thank you.

 

[Divergent]

Common sense goes alongside. Recently there's a parade in Mardan with Mullahs going against Mashal based on what? Hear say? The fake account that still has statuses up even after he passed away? Please.

I don't pay attention to these overly emotional danda types, nor people that don't make sense to me. I don't bend.

 

[I.R.A]

It is a duty for every Muslim to spread the message i.e. Quran.

You say this because you know the importance of this task, you know that message is not for Muslims only it is for every human, it is for all of the humanity ............ but what to do with people who try telling you Quran is beyond your understanding don't even try reading its translation, Quran is left to seek forgiveness for the dead, an easy way to earn reward for hereafter by just reciting Quran, you recite one alphabet you move ten points up ............. what to do when you try telling people that Quran is for living, it is not for recitation only but for understanding and implementation ........ and in return you are looked at as if you are an alien or have fallen prey to some suspicious ideology? People get decreed infidel for this. Challenging bap dada kay beliefs is really a hard task.

It has everything we would need in the short term and in the long term.

Then, now and for future. No doubt about it. They say there are more than 700 verses in Quran that hold scientific knowledge ...........

The problem occurs when so called 'bearers' feel insecure as they know they will lose hold on the flock of lambs if they educate them.

Bearers of Quran won't feel any insecurity ............. on other hand well Paraoh, Qaroon and Haman get threatened.

Learning a foreign language has so much positives, like logically the more language you know the more you can communicate better.

Fully agreed.

If you do not help yourself, no one will help you. That is also a clear message from the Quran and through this one can understand why those who are suffering the most are in this state.

Isn't it job of Mehdi to remove all ills of the society and bring success riding a horse, when the enemy would be flying on a donkey that has a wingspan of many feet / meters?

Till Mehdi comes corruption is halal, bribes are halal, marrying young six and nine year old girls is halal, raping and oppressing women is halal, killing other innocent people is halal, taking others property by fraud or force is halal, interest is halal, worshiping many false idols is halal, making various sects and dividing people on petty things is halal, declaring others infidel is halal ............... till Mehdi comes everything that is happening is in our Taqdeer so remaining in this cesspool is halal ............... Duniya is a bone and people who fall prey to it are dogs so any struggle to improve your situation in dunyia is haram. Sit back enjoy and let Mehdi and Issa sort out all the mess we create.


P.S : If you don't mind I would like to know your age group. Thanks.

 

[Verve]

Common sense goes alongside.
I don't pay attention to these overly emotional danda types, nor people that don't make sense to me. I don't bend.

You respect and listen to your mother, yes! Why not Allah too? <= Maybe that's not common sense ...

And if our Creator's words do not mean anything to you then good luck to you.

Submission to Allah is the key. Forget what anyone else does or thinks.

 

[Hell hound]

You respect and listen to your mother, yes! Why not Allah too? <= Maybe that's not common sense ...

And if our Creator's words do not mean anything to you and then good luck to you.

Submission to Allah is the key. Forget what anyone else does or thinks.

Now you are flamebaiting again and then you are going to cry that we youngsters don't respect you elders.pls its better if we ignore each other for now.

 

[Verve]

Now you are flamebaiting again and then you are going to cry that we youngsters don't respect you elders.pls its better if we ignore each other for now.

You are misreading. Get rid of the bias in your mind and read again. This is what I tell my own children too.

It is only advice.

 

[Hell hound]

You are misreading. Get rid of the bias in your mind and read again. This is what I tell my own children too.

It is only advice.

You have edited your post(that submission to allah part is added later) and now it sounds more like an advise but previously it looked like flame baiting post.