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Q&A: Why Philippines challenged China’s sea claim

The world recognizes that India does not own every island found or located in the Indian Ocean. Never seen India claim the whole Indian Ocean.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...lenged-china-s-sea-claim-3.html#ixzz2JQeil6cL

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China's claim on the whole China sea is based on greed.
 
maybe only Phillipinos compare Indian Ocean with SCS,their learning on geography is a total mess.
 
As for the Falklands, the Argentinean claim is frankly very weak, and given that there are people living there who have almost unanimously chosen to remain British, it should remain British. It's a completely different situation, not that you can tell the difference, apparently. Britain and Argentina are both outside the 200 miles EEZ of Falkland Islands. So stop making excuses.

Tell that if Argentina is agree, you just cheerleading the strong side.

sorry to rain on your parade!!!

Andaman and Nicobar island has been ruled by Indian Kings then British India and has been part of India for 1000 yrs :agree: ?

its a Union Territory of India with 400,000 plus Indian's living there.

Myanmar, Indonesia and Thailand don't have any claim pending on it.

So you mean Philipine should be returned to Spain...how long have they rule this land??
 
So you mean Philipine should be returned to Spain...how long have they rule this land??

Spain gave up power over Philippines and sold it to US for 20 million , when they lost Spanish- America war in 1898

it became self governed in the 1930's, then US fought for Philippines Independence from japan during WWII..
 
Spain gave up power over Philippines and sold it to US for 20 million , when they lost Spanish- America war in 1898

it became self governed in the 1930's, then US fought for Philippines Independence from japan during WWII..

But still Spain was the formal colonizer of these Philipine islands pack as Falkland...even now these Pinoys use spanish names. The name Philippines is derived from that of King Philip II of Spain, so this land is rightfully belong to spain.
 
But still Spain was the formal colonizer of these Philipine islands pack as Falkland...even now these Pinoys use spanish names.
The name Philippines is derived from that of King Philip II of Spain, so this land is rightfully belong to spain.

it doesn't work that way .. Spain was bygone superpower ( its was 1st super power in modern history)

also the pinroys wanted the land to themselves and perhaps the Spanish had enough! , so they sold it as war reparation.
 
it doesn't work that way .. Spain was bygone superpower ( its was 1st super power in modern history)

also the pinroys wanted the land to themselves and perhaps the Spanish had enough! , so they sold it as war reparation.

I guess the meaning to be superpower is really significant nowaday :tup:
 
So you mean Philipine should be returned to Spain...how long have they rule this land??
By your logic, then all of Europe should belong to Italy because of the Roman Empire. :cheesy:

The problem with China is they are still attempting to acquire territory in the modern world. No one else is doing that. China needs to be taught that lesson if it cannot respect the 200 miles EEZ with regard to its own sovereign waters.
I guess the meaning to be superpower is really significant nowaday :tup:
This actuation of China has made it an irresponsible regional power and definitely unworthy to be a superpower. :devil:

If a nation that pretends to be modern and a good citizen of the world act contrary to that notion by bullying and taking what it wants from weaker nations, it is not great, nor is it good. It is at its core evil and must be opposed. You're not worth the effort to disabuse your ignorance. There is no justification; no consideration that would ameliorate your position. The past is no excuse for present transgressions. Your rationalizations don't wash.
 
China’s sea claims lack legal grounds and abuse history

China’s mix of historical and legal claims in the South China Sea are inconsistent, says Frank Ching. Beijing can’t have its cake and eat it.

US scholar Lucian Pye once famously said that China was not a country but ‘a civilization pretending to be a state.’ That may have been apt at one time, but today’s China has been transformed into a modern state that plays an active role in international forums.

However, China also tries to capitalize on its long history when pressing its case in international disputes. Nowhere is this more clear than in the current South China Sea territorial dispute, which pits China against several of its neighbours. Also embroiled in the various rows are the United States, India and, increasingly, Japan. It’s a potent mix.

In 1996, Beijing ratified the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea(UNCLOS) and publicly embraced the treaty’s provision that ‘China shall enjoy sovereign rights and jurisdiction over an exclusive economic zone of 200 nautical miles and the continental shelf’ – a hitherto unknown concept.

At the same time, however, it reaffirmed its claim over the islets, rocks and reefs in the South China Sea on historical grounds—grounds that aren’t recognized by the convention. That is to say, China claims all the rights granted under international law today and, in addition, claims rights that aren’t generally recognized because its civilization can be traced back several thousand years.

Historically, China was the dominant power in East Asia and considered lesser powers as its tributaries. By insisting now on territorial claims that reflect a historical relationship that vanished hundreds of years ago with the rise of the West, Beijing is, in a sense, attempting to revive and legitimize a situation where it was the unchallenged hegemon.


The ambiguity about what parts of international law China recognizes and which bits it doesn’t gives rise to the current dispute, which directly involves Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia and Brunei, and indirectly involves the interests of many other nations.

The claims made by Southeast Asian countries rest primarily on the provisions of the Law of the Sea. China, however, is taking the position that its sovereignty over the territories concerned precedes the enactment of the Law of the Sea, and so the law doesn’t apply. History trumps law.

In 2009, China submitted a map to the UN Commission on the Law of the Sea in support of its claims to ‘indisputable sovereignty over the islands of the South China Sea and the adjacent waters’ as well as ‘the seabed and subsoil thereof.’

The map featured a U-shaped dotted line that encompassed virtually the entire South China Sea and hugged the coasts of neighbouring countries including Vietnam, Malaysia and the Philippines. This was the first time China had submitted a map to the United Nations in support of its territorial claims, but there was no explanation given as to whether it claimed all the waters as well as the islands enclosed by the dotted line.

Perhaps because of the conflict between historical claims and the UNCLOS, other Chinese scholars are now calling for a review of the Law of the Sea.
Li Jinming, a professor at the Center for Southeast Asia Studies at Xiamen University, says that there are ‘shortcomings’ in UNCLOS and, as a result, ‘China should consider its own situation before enforcing UNCLOS.’ That is to say, even though China hasratified the treaty, which has been in effect for 17 years, Beijing shouldn’t abide by its provisions unless the convention is somehow revised to support China’s territorial claims.

Beijing, it appears, wants to be made an exception in international law. It wants to have its cake and eat it. But law is law. What is the point of having international law when it is no longer international, and when it is no longer law?

China’s sea claims lack legal grounds and abuse history
 
Manila deals a clever hand with desire for arbitration

n the past year, China and the Philippines have been fighting a war of words over disputed islands in the South China Sea, and ASEAN unity on the issue has come under pressure.

Last week, Manila surprised observers when Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario handed Chinese Ambassador Ma Keqing a note notifying Beijing it was seeking international arbitration to declare Beijing's moves in the oil-rich waters as “unlawful” under the 1982 U.N. Convention on the Law of the Sea (Unclos).

“The Philippines has exhausted almost all political and diplomatic avenues for a peaceful negotiated settlement of its maritime disputes with China,” Rosario said last Tuesday at a news conference. On the surface, the attempt looks like a long shot. China has repeatedly said it has “indisputable sovereignty” over islands in the South China Sea and its adjacent waters. Beijing prefers bilateral talks to resolve the dispute, and for other claimant states not to internationalize the issue.

More importantly, China had in 2006 excluded itself from dispute settlement mechanisms available under Unclos. This relates to issues pertaining to maritime delineation, historic bays and military activities. Hence, China will not be compelled to participate in the arbitral tribunal.

But if one examines Manila's case, as detailed in a 21-page note verbale with notification and statement of claim released last Tuesday, the Philippines does have some tricks up its sleeve.

The document states that Manila is not asking the tribunal to decide on which country enjoys sovereignty over the islands, nor a delimitation of any maritime boundaries. And Manila did not raise any subjects China has excluded from arbitral jurisdiction.

Instead, the Philippines is calling on the tribunal to decide on a major issue — whether China's so-called nine-dash or nine-dotted line claim to nearly the entire South China Sea is lawful.

Within the maritime area encompassed by the nine-dash line, China has also laid claim to, occupied and built structures on certain “submerged banks, reefs and low tide elevations that do not qualify as islands under Unclos but are parts of the Philippine continental shelf,” Manila's statement said. These features include Mischief Reef, which China occupied in 1995. China also occupied what the Philippines calls Scarborough Shoal last June.

By asking the tribunal to decide on the legality of China's nine-dash line under Unclos, the Philippines has essentially dealt a clever hand — China might have to clarify the extent and basis for its nine-dotted line claim.


This is something that many analysts have been calling for. Singapore's former senior minister S. Jayakumar said in 2011 that China should clarify its “puzzling and disturbing” nine-dotted lines map, since it had no apparent basis under Unclos and could be interpreted as a claim of all maritime areas within those lines.

By seeking China's participation before the tribunal, Manila has also changed the dynamics of its dispute with Beijing, which has persisted since 1995.

Speaking to The Straits Times on condition of anonymity, a legal expert said that Manila's submission might even compel China — which has largely been leery of settling territorial disputes in international fora — to change its mind.

Beijing would be wise to seek expert counsel before it decides whether to participate or even challenge the tribunal's jurisdiction, he said. “Beijing's initial reaction is likely that it would not participate. But if they seek expert advice, they will find it is a more complex decision than they first thought,” the expert said.

Even if China doesn't participate, a decision by the tribunal in Manila's favor would put it on higher legal and moral ground, says Professor Carl Thayer at the University of New South Wales.

Dr. Ian Storey, a senior fellow at the Institute of Southeast Asian Studies, said that China is facing a lose-lose situation.

“If it ignores the submission, then it will leave itself open to criticism that it does not adhere to international legal norms. If it decides to argue its case before the tribunal, it will have a very difficult task of justifying the legality of the nine-dash line and its claims to 'historic rights' within the limits of that line — and it might lose,” he said.

An ASEAN diplomat who requested not to be named agreed.

“If they don't fight the tribunal's jurisdiction, it might embolden other claimants in the South China Sea dispute. If they do fight and win, they could lose in the court of international opinion,” the diplomat said.

Analysts also noted that the Philippines has prepared its case well by recruiting top American lawyer Paul Reichler. He is a giantslayer in the realm of public international law, and became famous in 1984 when he won Nicaragua's case against the U.S. over its paramilitary activities in Central America.

In 2008, he also joined a legal team acting on behalf of Georgia, after Russia had invaded the country that year. He managed to secure a historic ruling from the International Court of Justice, which ordered both Russia and Georgia to halt ethnic cleansing in Russian-occupied Abkhazia and South Ossetia while Georgia's case against Russia was being heard.

As the legal expert put it: “He is a wise choice. He has done David versus Goliath before.”

China has 30 days to decide whether it would nominate an arbitrator to the tribunal. The Philippines has already nominated Judge Rudiger Wolfrum, a former president of the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea, as a member of the tribunal.

Going forward, Manila's submission last Tuesday has significant knock-on effects on ASEAN.

ASEAN has been working with China on a legally binding Code of Conduct for the South China Sea. But Manila's latest move might affect ASEAN's centrality in the dispute. This will become even more pertinent as and when Vietnam — which is challenging China over the Paracels chain — decides to go the same arbitration route as Manila. It does look like the Philippines has scored a minor coup in its dispute with China.

Manila took many by surprise when it tabled its “well-written” submission last week, the ASEAN diplomat said. “To be honest, overall expectations of the Philippine diplomatic service are low. But what they did do is to listen to good legal advice. The submission was written by someone who really knew his job. They have stunned us by being so together on this case.”

Manila deals a clever hand with desire for arbitration - The China Post
 
Well don't count your chickens before they hatch and a filipino saying (maraming namatay sa mali akala) ( a lot of people die from false assumptions)

No we don't need to count chickens because we already have decided how many its will hatched.
 

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