Pushing Kashmir toward Pakistan

[dabong1]

Again, the key here is sustained stability. IMHO inter-Kashmir trade has more of a symbolic value than any major pragmatic advantage. What Kashmir needs a lot more is for the trade restrictions within India itself to be lifted. There has to be a full flow of development in all its economic sectors: agriculture, infrastructure, tourism/eco tourism, industry, institutions etc etc. Right now all of this potential is being trampled upon by nonsensical violence over trivial issues which in turn has resulted in a pathetic stagnation of all social and economic indicators. The GoI is trying to orchestrate all sorts of initiatives, SEZs, subsidized electricity etc. but all of this again has 0 pragmatic value if the region can't remain stable for more than a few weeks at a time.
Unless Kashmir is stabilized rehabilitated and set on a path of prosperity (for which it has all the necessary ingredients) we will see absolutely nothing come off it. India will never relinquish it, and Pakistan will never be able to successfully wrest it away from India. It will remain a troubled region with untold unrealized potential.

You can try to buy the hearts of the kashmiris but it will not work.........give each kashmiris a million dollars each and promise them all the rich's you want but we will still want to be free of india.

 

[dabong1]

I know you've written about this topic before, but I still fail to see how you expect any government in its right mind to open up its borders in such a volatile and unstable region without so much so as a couple of years of stability *shrug*. These expectations are simply unrealistic. The entire thing would be rendered a farce.

India is scared......if kashmiris from the indian side start coming over to AJK they will taste true freedom.
The daily horror stories pumped out by the bollywood newsmedia about the plight of kashmiris in AJK/Pakistan will be blown apart.
India is all ready to let people from india and pakistan have cross border trade and interaction but when it comes to kashmiris crossing the border its a no no.
The GoP needs to get behind the freedom fighters and rearm and retrain them along the lines of hezbollah/hamas.

 

[ashfaque]

The GoP needs to get behind the freedom fighters and rearm and retrain them along the lines of hezbollah/hamas.

Sad, this is what had been done in Afghanistan and see what is life of children and young men and women of Afghan's. Same thing happening with innocent Pakistani awam, now same you are suggesting for Kashmiri.
I hate Indian politicians to create hatred but I hate more to people who use name of Islam for their own interest.
But what can be done to emotional fools, they are destined to become human bomb and waste their life for nothing....

 

[dabong1]

Sad, this is what had been done in Afghanistan and see what is life of children and young men and women of Afghan's. Same thing happening with innocent Pakistani awam, now same you are suggesting for Kashmiri.
I hate Indian politicians to create hatred but I hate more to people who use name of Islam for their own interest.
But what can be done to emotional fools, they are destined to become human bomb and waste their life for nothing....

How i would love to send you to kashmir.....may after a few deaths in the family at the hands of the indian army and then we will see then how peaceful you are..?

 

[RabzonKhan]

CPI(M) calls for opening of Srinagar-Muzaffarabad road

Srinagar (PTI): Jammu and Kashmir Unit of the CPI(M) on wednesday appealed to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh to start "serious dialogue" with Pakistan for early opening of the Srinagar-Muzaffarabad road for trade activities.

"Indian government is promise-bound for opening of the Srinagar-Muzaffarabad road for trade. I appeal to the Prime Minister to initiate serious talks with Pakistan to start early trade," State Secretary of CPI(M) M Y Tarigami said in a statement here.

Tarigami asked secular parties to come forward to scuttle attempts by the Sangh Parivar-led by BJP to create confusion in the country by "cashing in on the prevailing situation in Jammu and Kashmir for petty political interests".

"Whatever be the reason for the ongoing crisis and whoever is responsible... We should leave it aside as the time demands political and social leadership to stand up at this crucial juncture, set aside personal and party interests, and play a matured role of a leader so that the flames of anger, revenge and hatred are extinguished," Tarigami said.

"No one can be happy over the happenings in the state for the past several weeks. The administration has miserably failed to deal with this sensitive and critical situation," Tarigami said.

He said handling of the situation which particularly arise due to blockade of the Srinagar-Jammu National highway was not only "regrettable" but also "heinous

 

[Energon]

How i would love to send you to kashmir.....may after a few deaths in the family at the hands of the indian army and then we will see then how peaceful you are..?

Yes yes and we all know that is how one sided the whole affair is.

You want to proselytize a message of hate and terrorism go ahead. But please don't expect anyone to take you seriously or give a modicum of consideration to your displays of indignations, especially when being called a terrorist.

 

[dabong1]

You want to proselytize a message of hate and terrorism go ahead. But please don't expect anyone to take you seriously or give a modicum of consideration to your displays of indignations, especially when being called a terrorist.

To the germans the french resistance where terrorist, the US says that the iraqi mujahideen are terrorist.
The british called the freedom fighters of india terrorist .
Where all the above spreading a "message of hate and terrorism" or the message of freedom and justice..?
Its is you that wants the killing and destruction of kashmir by supporting the indian govt line.
QUIT KASHMIR INDIA.

 

[Energon]

To the germans the french resistance where terrorist, the US says that the iraqi mujahideen are terrorist.
The british called the freedom fighters of india terrorist .
Where all the above spreading a "message of hate and terrorism" or the message of freedom and justice..?
Its is you that wants the killing and destruction of kashmir by supporting the indian govt line.
QUIT KASHMIR INDIA.

mmm, Kashmir is India's. If anyone doesn't like it and wants to "taste the freedom" of "Azaad" Kashmir, they're welcome to move there.

 

[roadrunner]

Obviously this comes as no surprise. Kashmir in general was already closer to Pakistan. It does not need pushing towards it. If one were to hold a vote tomorrow to choose between India or Pakistan, they'd choose Pakistan. This was how all the territories of British India were to be sorted out, so it should be relevant in this case.

How people can call Kashmiris terrorists when they openly display displeasure for India and affection for Pakistan, whilst being under the rule of an occupying army, is purely down to clouded thinking from their own personal bias.I wonder why people in Pakistani Kashmir are not putting the Indian anthems on their phones?

Pakistani anthem rings out across Kashmir

Reuters

New Delhi, September 28: If mobile phone ring tones are any indication of sentiment, revolt-weary Kashmiris have plumped for Pakistan over India.

A growing number of people in Kashmir are choosing Pakistan's national anthem as the ring tone on their newly allowed mobile phones, a leading newspaper said on Tuesday.

Students in Kashmir, where India is struggling to quell a 15-year revolt, told the newspaper they had received the anthem from friends in Pakistan and had passed it on to others.

"This does not mean Kashmiris want to be part of Pakistan, people just feel closer to it," the newspaper quoted Ali Mohammad, a taxi driver in the summer capital Srinagar, as saying.

Mobile phones were only introduced in Kashmir last year by a government operator after security agencies dropped long-standing objections. This month, private operator Bharti Tele-Ventures Ltd, the second largest mobile services firm, began services.

India and Pakistan have started talks aimed at finding a solution to the decades-old dispute over the scenic Himalayan region.
Pakistani anthem rings out across Kashmir

 

[jaison]

the most important thing for kashmiries is not the citizenship of india or pakistan but peace and harmony.if there is an economic blockade they have no choice but to trade with *** whether they like it or not ...this is natural...do you expect them to die of hunger ...instead of stopping terrorists for some time pak gov is trying to gain an upperhand in j&k .....and i admit that the indian gov has failed to contain communal divide created by political parties eyeing elections.i just wish even paks understand this and cooperate until violence ends.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

...instead of stopping terrorists for some time pak gov is trying to gain an upperhand in j&k ....

Thats patently untrue - infiltration continues to remain far lower than it used to be, and even the occasional ceasefire violations (by both sides) are nowhere close to what they used to be during the height of the insurgency.

Beyond that, India has nothing on the table for Pakistan right now - it has increased its vitriolic rhetoric by blaming Pakistan for terrorism, called for the destruction of a Pakistani institution, postponed negotiations on the IPI, and its PM allegedly told Pakistan's PM that 'it was not business as usual'.

Pakistan on the other hand introduced a new trade and investment policy that opens up both those fields to a large degree for Indian companies in Pakistan.

Pardon us for not really caring about the GoI's tantrums over 'harming bilateral relations' - the GoI took the first step in vitiating the atmosphere by blaming Pakistan for the embassy bombing.

 

[Contrarian]

Pardon us for not really caring about the GoI's tantrums over 'harming bilateral relations' - the GoI took the first step in vitiating the atmosphere by blaming Pakistan for the embassy bombing.

Agnostic do tell me, dont you think there is a reason why 99% of the terrorist attacks in the WORLD have some kind of link to Pakistan? Why somewhere in the chain of support/logistics/training, Pakistan is ALWAYS present?

If your own PM is not sure what happened, if your own PM cannot control your intelligence agency, if your own PM is now holding an investigation, what does that tell you?

That ISI is out of any kind of control. It functions without oversight, your own government cannot control it. The US blames the ISI for STILL supporting and providing help to the Taliban which is against the national policy of Pakistan.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Agnostic do tell me, dont you think there is a reason why 99% of the terrorist attacks in the WORLD have some kind of link to Pakistan? Why somewhere in the chain of support/logistics/training, Pakistan is ALWAYS present?

If your own PM is not sure what happened, if your own PM cannot control your intelligence agency, if your own PM is now holding an investigation, what does that tell you?

That ISI is out of any kind of control. It functions without oversight, your own government cannot control it. The US blames the ISI for STILL supporting and providing help to the Taliban which is against the national policy of Pakistan.

I'll won't take your 99 percent comment literally since you don't really need me to point out why that is highly flawed.

However why are some terrorists able to operate out of Pakistan, primarily the lawless area called FATA that the GoP has never really exercised control over, because of its special status in the constitution, continued from British days, and our proximity with Afghanistan.

When law and order is missing, when LEA's are non existent, such areas will become havens for crime, and terrorism is one such crime.

You are trying to construct an institutional relationship to terrorism when there is no evidence to that effect. The problems are of a lack of institutional systems - governing, social and economic.

MMS made an accusation, PM Gillani said he would look into it. Now no one has ruled out the possibility of rogue agents supporting the Taliban - Musharraf admitted the possibility a few years ago, but conducting an investigation to catch a rogue is entirely different from the picture being painted of the ISI being out of control, which Blain and others have argued against quite well here:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/current-events-social-issues/13278-why-anti-isi-propaganda.html

The US is quite aware of the groups Pakistan has links to since Pakistan has made those links clear, such as Pakistan's links with Mullah Nazir and Haji Namdar - in fact one article suggest that the CIA in fact funded the 'buyout' of Namdar, so that he could act as a bulwark against the TTP.

Beyond that the US has nothing, and the Jallaludin Haqqani connections (the basis for the NYT sources claims) have been explained by Pakistan as well.

Rather than rehash all the old points about 'institutional control' go through the posts in the thread I linked, and pose any questions that remain after that.

 

[roadrunner]

Agnostic do tell me, dont you think there is a reason why 99% of the terrorist attacks in the WORLD have some kind of link to Pakistan? Why somewhere in the chain of support/logistics/training, Pakistan is ALWAYS present?

What a load of nonsense. I suppose the ISI and Pakistan are behind FARK terrorism in Columbia, Northern Ireland terrorism in the UK. I always had a sneaky suspicion that Pakistan was behind ETA seperatists in Basque. Let's not bring terrorism in Africa into it either.

Put it this way, I doubt even 50% of terrorism worldwide have anything to do with Muslims. And of the ones to do with Muslims, Pakistan government has around 0% to do with them, the only thing linking to Pakistan in some cases is that once certain terrorists stepped foot or visited Pakistan - even if they did, what has Pakistan to do with this? The majority of their radicalization occurred in foreign countries, and that is where the problem is.

I could say all the world's terrorism that is caused by Muslim can be tied to India, since most of the venomous sects of Islam sprung from places within India. Therefore, everything traces back to India. However this would be oversight, just as your above comment is ridiculously foolish at best.

 

[Flintlock]

I could say all the world's terrorism that is caused by Muslim can be tied to India, since most of the venomous sects of Islam sprung from places within India. Therefore, everything traces back to India. However this would be oversight, just as your above comment is ridiculously foolish at best.

Why stop here? Where did Islam come from? Saudi A.? So all the terrorism in the world can be traced back to Saudi Arabla.
But then that would be 'oversight'