PTI is establishment's party? Think again!

[FaujHistorian]

Sorry friend, but I find you too biased against PTI. PTI people are by far more educated, civil and mannered compared to N-League guys in talk shows. Yes there are a few exceptions but I'm talking about overall stuff. And Asad Umar the one in above video is an absolute gem to watch. So your whole argument is more like PTI bashing as usual, nothing else.

Precisely my point.

Sadly though, all that high education doesn't show in these talk shows.

See!

I am biased towards calm, and rational dialogue.

Thanks.

 

[Jazzbot]

Precisely my point.

Sadly though, all that high education doesn't show in these talk shows.

See!

I am biased towards calm, and rational dialogue.

Thanks.

The thing is, I'm talking in reference to the video I've shared, and you are generalizing. On top of that you are giving sweaping statement without watching the video in OP, which makes your whole argument look silly.

 

[TheFlyingPretzel]

Diverting from your own lectures, I see. You started lecturing me about constitution, but when I talked in same language, you start giving lame excuses. All election related petitions were to be finalized in 4 months, period.

And most of these petitions that are finalized so far, are not the main petitions PTI is demanding. How many of these 4 constituencies are opened so far?

Dear brother, I mean to lecture nobody and I don't understand why you would take offence to my posts. Also please note that you haven't spoken to me in my language. Your remarks are both cursory and illusory. I have given you the figures and I have presented my arguments with clarity and I have not shied away from engaging in an academic debate. I have not sought to rely on emoticons to enhance my argument and neither have I assumed finality on any topic. Nothing should be followed by "period", there is always a nuance waiting to be explored and addressed, academically.

Furthermore, I am not offering you any excuses. I am admitting guilt on behalf of the judicial system. It was wrong of them to have failed to decide a portion of the petitions within 120 days of receiving the petition from the ECP.

But what you must admit is your inability to justify the reason you, as a party-worker of the PTI, have decided to take to the streets. Surely a few pending petitions, which most certainly shall stand decided within 3 months from today, could not have spurred you to vent your anger on the streets of Islamabad. Also, please do remind me how many, of the 301 decided petitions, have actually been decided in PTI's favour. The 4 constituencies which appear to form the core of PTI's protest on the 14th are, as I pointed out earlier, are 1.48% of the entire number of constituencies.

Help me understand. I voted for PTI in the general elections, and now I'm embarrassed.

 

[Jazzbot]

Dear brother, I mean to lecture nobody and I don't understand why you would take offence to my posts. Also please note that you haven't spoken to me in my language. Your remarks are both cursory and illusory. I have given you the figures and I have presented my arguments with clarity and I have not shied away from engaging in an academic debate. I have not sought to rely on emoticons to enhance my argument and neither have I assumed finality on any topic. Nothing should be followed by "period", there is always a nuance waiting to be explored and addressed, academically.

Furthermore, I am not offering you any excuses. I am admitting guilt on behalf of the judicial system. It was wrong of them to have failed to decide a portion of the petitions within 120 days of receiving the petition from the ECP.

But what you must admit is your inability to justify the reason you, as a party-worker of the PTI, have decided to take to the streets. Surely a few pending petitions, which most certainly shall stand decided within 3 months from today, could not have spurred you to vent your anger on the streets of Islamabad. Also, please do remind me how many, of the 301 decided petitions, have actually been decided in PTI's favour. The 4 constituencies which appear to form the core of PTI's protest on the 14th are, as I pointed out earlier, 1.58% of the entire number of constituencies.

Help me understand. I voted for PTI in the general elections, and now I'm embarrassed.

First of all, nothing personal.

Secondly, I hold no party affiliation with PTI of any sort.

Thirdly, PTI's demand is legal and is plain & simple. Open up the damn 4 constituencies, have them thumb verified and recounted and see what comes out of it. If no rigging is proved, PTI will accept the result whole heartedly and will only focus on election reforms without ever talking about election rigging. But if rigging is proved in these 4 constituencies, then those who did this rigging should be brought to Justice and made an example so next time anyone who will think about doing election rigging will think twice before doing so.

Just put everything aside for a while, and tell me "do you really think that there wasn't any, any riggin done in 2013 elections?" If there was even some rigging then what example we are setting? We have several video proofs of election riggings, last time NADRA caught a person who casted some 350+ votes on one CNIC card, thousands of fake votes are caught in Na-118 Lahore alone. But no one got caught for doing all this till date. What examples we are setting? That the one who will rig elections will get lucrative jobs for himself or his children? Najam Sethi, Arsalan Iftikhar.

Its a shame for us, that in a messed up country like Afghanistan (no offense to Afghans), elections were mis-managed and they have stopped the results and asked for a complete audit of the elections before announcing the results. But in Pakistan, we haven't done sh!t about it even after 14 months.

 

[TheFlyingPretzel]

First of all, nothing personal.

Secondly, I hold no party affiliation with PTI of any sort.

Thirdly, PTI's demand is legal and is plain & simple. Open up the damn 4 constituencies, have them thumb verified and recounted and see what comes out of it. If no rigging is proved, PTI will accept the result whole heartedly and will only focus on election reforms without ever talking about election rigging. But if rigging is proved in these 4 constituencies, then those who did this rigging should be brought to Justice and made an example so next time anyone who will think about doing election rigging will think twice before doing so.

Just put everything aside for a while, and tell me "do you really think that there wasn't any, any riggin done in 2013 elections?" If there was even some rigging then what example we are setting? We have several video proofs of election riggings, last time NADRA caught a person who casted some 350+ votes on one CNIC card, thousands of fake votes are caught in Na-118 Lahore alone. But no one got caught for doing all this till date. What examples we are setting? That the one who will rig elections will get lucrative jobs for himself or his children? Najam Sethi, Arsalan Iftikhar.

Its a shame for us, that in a messed up country like Afghanistan (no offense to Afghans), elections were mis-managed and they have stopped the results and asked for a complete audit of the elections before announcing the results. But in Pakistan, we haven't done sh!t about it even after 14 months.

I am not going to turn a blind eye to the rigging which was perpetrated in some of the constituencies. There is sufficient documentary proof for it too. We saw it all happening on TV during the elections. Amateur footage showed women engaged in the act of electoral manipulation. Equality, eh? But what is important to understand is that those constituencies, where rigging took place, are few in number. The majority of the elections were a major improvement from the fiasco of 2002. In that alone, I shall commend the ECP.

As you can see, although I am cognizant of the information with regards to the rigging, I have chosen to accept it and turn my attention to more pressing matters. I shall have you know I was at D-chowk twice, after the elections, holding up banners and chanting slogans against PML-N. I am not one to back-away from a good cause. But I now find futility in the exercise of protesting in favour of revisiting the election results. Why? Simply because the N of today, is not the N of the past. They are here to work, and it shows in their demeanour. As a citizen there is nothing more I want, than a prosperous Pakistan, and I can't bear the thought of being a barrier to that end.

If the present government had failed to perform, you would have seen me at D-Chowk on the 14th, shouting and chanting, riding high on the tide of the tsunami... but because the present government has performed, and because there are very positive markers, I have decided to let them be. I know as well as you know, that a re-count of the 4 constituencies (particularly one where the attendance was 100%) is sure to turn up a few irregularities. A re-election would only throw us back 2 years. I am for electoral reforms. Address the system in the reign of the present government, because you will find them conducive to the idea. The next election will be even more transparent and the ones after that more so, and so on.

But (emphasis added), let the election petitions run their course, and if the 4 constituencies are shown to have been rigged then let there be re-elections in them. The uniform application of law is essential to the success of the Pakistani edifice.

 

[Jazzbot]

I am not going to turn a blind eye to the rigging which was perpetrated in some of the constituencies. There is sufficient documentary proof for it too. We saw it all happening on TV during the elections. Amateur footage showed women engaged in the act of electoral manipulation. Equality, eh? But what is important to understand is that those constituencies, where rigging took place, are few in number. The majority of the elections were a major improvement from the fiasco of 2002. In that alone, I shall commend the ECP.

As you can see, although I am cognizant of the information with regards to the rigging, I have chosen to accept it and turn my attention to more pressing matters. I shall have you know I was at D-chowk twice, after the elections, holding up banners and chanting slogans against PML-N. I am not one to back-away from a good cause. But I now find futility in the exercise of protesting in favour of revisiting the election results. Why? Simply because the N of today, is not the N of the past. They are here to work, and it shows in their demeanour. As a citizen there is nothing more I want, than a prosperous Pakistan, and I can't bear the thought of being a barrier to that end.

If the present government had failed to perform, you would have seen me at D-Chowk on the 14th, shouting and chanting, riding high on the tide of the tsunami... but because the present government has performed, and because there are very positive markers, I have decided to let them be. I know as well as you know, that a re-count of the 4 constituencies (particularly one where the attendance was 100%) is sure to turn up a few irregularities. A re-election would only throw us back 2 years. I am for electoral reforms. Address the system in the reign of the present government, because you will find them conducive to the idea. The next election will be even more transparent and the ones after that more so, and so on.

You accept rigging, appreciable. But the time has gone when rigging did happen and them people kept mum about it hoping to do more rigging in next elections to take revenge. This is not gonna work anymore. PTI demanded election voting on CNIC for some reason, what is the purpose of holding elections on the basis of CNIC when no votes is to be verified on the basis of NADRA thumb verification.

Tell me which demand of PTI is illegal?

• It is legal to ask for votes recounting
• it is legal to ask for thumb verification
• it is legal to ask for election reforms
• It is legal to ask for right to vote for overseas Pakistanis (We also have supreme court's order in favor of this)
• It is legal to ask for electronic voting via EVMs
• It is legal to do peaceful protests if PTI's demands aren't met
• And it is legal to ask for mid term elections.

Mid term election are part of democracy, they happen all over the world and its not necessary that they will backfire everytime or will put the country 2 years back.

As for the work of PML-N govt, it is debatable. Yes, they are doing some work in power sector which is the only beneficiary improvement over PPP's govt in my opinion. But still, they are doing corruption in it too. Take Nandipur project as an example. Original cost of this project was 12 billion, PPP revised it to 22 billions for commissions. Then PML-N govt revised it to 58 freaking billions all of a sudden. When this news broke out, 4 ministers of N-League including Prime Minister filed inquiries about this sudden rise in budget of this project. Ahsan Iqbal, Ch Nisar, Kh Asif and Nawaz Sharif were the one's who called inquires about this. Don't know whether they were against each other because all 4 of them are in govt and they are the one who hiked the project budget. 9 months after this, can you tell me what is the finding of those 4 inquiries? The project was done and dusted at same hiked budget, inaugurated by PM and then it went kaput in just 5 days. What was all this?

What our Public really want? Better education, health, police, law and order, land reforms, employment, changed patwari culture, deflation etc. Tell me what is the performance of PML-N in all these sectors in past 14 months. All you see is construction of roads, bridges, metros and motorways. Yes these projects are needed, but at what cost? What I am going to do with metro bus if my kid is not getting quality education, patwari asks me for bribe to proceed my land documents, police doesn't hear my complaint without bribe or political contacts, my parents can't get quality healthcare in govt hospitals and if I am jobless and can't do my own business because of load shedding?

A bunch of construction contractors have took over my country.

 

[TheFlyingPretzel]

You accept rigging, appreciable. But the time has gone when rigging did happen and them people kept mum about it hoping to do more rigging in next elections to take revenge. This is not gonna work anymore. PTI demanded election voting on CNIC for some reason, what is the purpose of holding elections on the basis of CNIC when no votes is to be verified on the basis of NADRA thumb verification.

Tell me which demand of PTI is illegal?

• It is legal to ask for votes recounting
• it is legal to ask for thumb verification
• it is legal to ask for election reforms
• It is legal to ask for right to vote for overseas Pakistanis (We also have supreme court's order in favor of this)
• It is legal to ask for electronic voting via EVMs
• It is legal to do peaceful protests if PTI's demands aren't met
• And it is legal to ask for mid term elections.

Mid term election are part of democracy, they happen all over the world and its not necessary that they will backfire everytime or will put the country 2 years back.

As for the work of PML-N govt, it is debatable. Yes, they are doing some work in power sector which is the only beneficiary improvement over PPP's govt in my opinion. But still, they are doing corruption in it too. Take Nandipur project as an example. Original cost of this project was 12 billion, PPP revised it to 22 billions for commissions. Then PML-N govt revised it to 58 freaking billions all of a sudden. When this news broke out, 4 ministers of N-League including Prime Minister filed inquiries about this sudden rise in budget of this project. Ahsan Iqbal, Ch Nisar, Kh Asif and Nawaz Sharif were the one's who called inquires about this. Don't know whether they were against each other because all 4 of them are in govt and they are the one who hiked the project budget. 9 months after this, can you tell me what is the finding of those 4 inquiries? The project was done and dusted at same hiked budget, inaugurated by PM and then it went kaput in just 5 days. What was all this?

What our Public really want? Better education, health, police, law and order, land reforms, employment, changed patwari culture, deflation etc. Tell me what is the performance of PML-N in all these sectors in past 14 months. All you see is construction of roads, bridges, metros and motorways. Yes these projects are needed, but at what cost? What I am going to do with metro bus if my kid is not getting quality education, patwari asks me for bribe to proceed my land documents, police doesn't hear my complaint without bribe or political contacts, my parents can't get quality healthcare in govt hospitals and if I am jobless and can't do my own business because of load shedding?

A bunch of construction contractors have took over my country.

PTIs demands are legit, but PTIs method of execution is questionable. Political rallies should be dignified and constructive. They should not be a festival for teenagers to vent their anger and be led astray by revolutionary jargon. The price-hike of the Nandipur plant was largely due to the considerable time it spent suspended while the Pakistani rupee continuously lost value since 2008. I do believe the matter should be reviewed and a detailed report made public. I'm just glad it's set to go operational as soon as components which allow generation on furnace oil have been integrated. It's far too costly to run on diesel.

Infrastructure is an integral component of economic empowerment. It would be wrong to assert, however, that they have overlooked development in the areas which you've mentioned. I'll do this quickly, because I'm a little pressed for time.

The only way to reform the police is to disband it and raise a new force in their place. I deal with them on a daily basis and you can trust me when I say they are beyond help. A less extreme measure would be to raise a model police force who in time would absorb the present policing system. The law and order situation is definitely going to improve post-Zarb-e-Azb and if terrorism is successfully eliminated, it would be a development for the ages. Digitization of land records is under progress in Punjab and the ICT (i commend KPK on the initiatives they've taken in this regard) and the facility will most certainly be expanded to other areas of Pakistan. Digitization of the records would naturally replace the patwari system.

The only real disagreement I have with the work PML-N is doing, is the fact that they're overlooking Balochistan, yet again. Hopefully in the coming year, assuming the tsunami doesn't wash them away, the development activities would be expanded further.

I appreciate the time time you've taken out to address my queries, and I must now retire for the night. Thank you very much and Shab Bakhair brother.

Pakistan Zindabad.

 

[Khalidr]

PTI is the brain child of General Pasha , it is an open secret , Asad umer is a son of A marshallaw administrator and gives us a lecture on democracy. On serious note if really establishment is not behind them , they will do pondi shoondi, party time , biryani etc and come back .

yaar drop this guy to some history class, you should make the second part of tehmina dultana video. is ko paani pilao.
im just ignoring u cuz i feel you are silly and so your statement.

 

[batmannow]

The thing is, there are dozen's of Mushy's Q-League lotas who are sitting in cabinet today, while she who fought against Marshal Law, did a lot of sacrifices and went through tough times for PML-N, is still sitting outside, shamelessly defending Nawaz League.

Her sacrifices for example?
She was hot women all her hey days, & that's what she was?
She got her number up just because, back in 80, s GEN . ZIA ,Muslim league needed women yes sirs, with DOLTANA, s their last name?

 

[SekrutYakhni]

Sorry.

I have quit watching these shows where grown ups yell each other using shrill voices.

All are idiots.

Imran-Imran and Qadri-Qadri reps are the worst when it comes to yelling on these shows.

I am looking for statesmen, and I keep on seeing 5th grade school bullies.

Sorry to say that all parties are involved in it. But PTI's pit pit pittanas and PAT's pit pit pitana rona dhona is the worst.

You homie so annoyed with the 5th graders. Wanna see a statesmen. Step up. Be the change you desire. Why criticize all the time? Lolixxxxxxx

 

[FaujHistorian]

You homie so annoyed with the 5th graders. Wanna see a statesmen. Step up. Be the change you desire. Why criticize all the time? Lolixxxxxxx

I tell you who is likely to be a big statesman if given a chance.

CM KPK.

Too bad he is being demolished by the sms messages;

 

[Viper0011.]

lol and here comes the lecturing brigade. There are around 70 odd petitions pending in election tribunal. The same constitution bounds all election tribunals to wind up all election petitions within 4 months after election. 14 freaking months are gone, with tons of cases still pending. Wanna talk about that?

About the 4 constituencies PTI is demanded, last time election tribunal ruled in favor of PTI candidate from NA-122 and ordered votes recount. That bastard from N-League brought stay order from Lahore High Court, and is still sitting at his Iron Throne, since that bastard is Speaker National Assembly.

If the Speaker of a country's National Assembly is surviving at stay orders and is trying his arse out to deny Justice , then what moral values you have to come here and lecture others?

I have a few questions for you and I want you to answer these as a human, not as a member of any party or sect. I am sure you have a family, friends, parents, kids or something like that?. Let's see what clay you are made out of.

Assuming ALL of the above you wrote is true, assuming the high courts, the supreme courts, the government, the accountability offices, the international community that watched the election, ALL are corrupted and have taken money from the current government (sounds like a fool's paradise to me). But assuming all this is right..........do you think your leadership or leader should resort to threats and violence? Or to call for these hate protests next month where I am almost certain some people will get killed as the government won't allow you to destroy public property and peace?

Do you think a good leader, who cares for its people will order such a gathering that has about 90% changes of turning violent, resulting in poor innocent people getting killed? What kind of leader is it that's playing with people's lives like freaking ants, while he gets to sit inside a bullet proof vehicle????
What moral or religious grounds can you satisfy this rational? Does Islam tell you to risk ordinary people's lives when you can avoid it or does the society tell you that?

And by doing such violent activities, you are scaring off people who have put money in your country for it to be successful. By scaring much needed investment off, are you serving your national interest? Shouldn't this be treason that you or whoever, for your personal agenda, are knowingly playing with innocent people's lives and 200 million people's future who deserve to live better?

If PTI is brain child of General Pasha, then Nawaz Sharif is illegal child of General Zia.

So let's do this, personal insults don't solve anything. Let's see, how about we discuss productively as to who is doing the work, let's list out some major projects that are being undertaken by the current government. I don't want to see propaganda, I want to see facts that are verified. Let's bring out a list of things and see how they are doing and how the current government is helping an average person by building infrastructure, schools, education, the economy, the job opportunity, investments, better health, etc, etc??? This should be a propaganda free, emotion free debate. You can ALSO respectfully outline where corruption happened and who was caught and what people who knew about it, did to reach out to the law. I think at the end of this, we'll know what's going on and how much f'd up really the government is.....OR, how f*d up are the people with certain agenda who've lost respect for their own country and they are making their society look like a propaganda fool in front of me and other foreign readers.

 

[SekrutYakhni]

I tell you who is likely to be a big statesman if given a chance.

CM KPK.

Too bad he is being demolished by the sms messages;

He is a teeli pehalwan. He cannot stand the andhi in Lahore.

I wanna ship him over to India for the Kabadi match with my sekret yakhni that will make him a desi popeye the sailor man.

lolixxxx

 

[Jzaib]

Fear of the unknown .. They think PTI is an establishment party as they are born by establishment . so they couldn't digest the fact that any party can be so successful without their help ... Just one question why would PTI speak against the military operation and build so much pressure on government and army .. if he was controlled by the army he wouold have supported it all along and towed with the line of what establishment wanted ...

 

[I FLY HIGH]

Fear of the unknown .. They think PTI is an establishment party as they are born by establishment . so they couldn't digest the fact that any party can be so successful without their help ... Just one question why would PTI speak against the military operation and build so much pressure on government and army .. if he was controlled by the army he wouold have supported it all along and towed with the line of what establishment wanted ...

It is because Pasha is retired, if pasha would have been in office , you would have been agreed on . Pasha ko to na nahen kr saktay.

yaar drop this guy to some history class, you should make the second part of tehmina dultana video. is ko paani pilao.
im just ignoring u cuz i feel you are silly and so your statement.

Ok i have to teach you history, Musharrafs polling agent was Imran Khan, He was in deal with Musharraf , he asked 40 seats in general elections but Musharraf was giving him only 4 , so the muk muka was not finalized . OK some more history classes. YOUR PARTY PTI PRESIDENT was also part of General Zia, more lesson Your party PTI vice chairmans father was governor Punjab in Zia govt . This is your reality . If you have courage refute it.