Project "AZM" :Building Knowledge Base & Road Map

[SBUS-CXK]

The answer lies in stop relying on international education. Science is the same everywhere in the universe, and it is waiting to be discovered. Much of what has been discovered is already available in the form of research papers. And the real truth of the matter is that the mind boggling success of countries like China stands in large part on wholesale buying out of technology, manpower, and where possible, espionage.

In a previous employment, the mentor assigned to me was a graduate from Russia's most premier institute of theoretical physics. He tells me back in the 1950s Britain hired Russian scientists on salaries of 30000K pounds per month for secret research projects. Yes, that is Thirty Thousand pounds per month in the 1950s. He says, as late as a couple of years ago, precincts in China hired Russian scientists on similarly mind boggling salaries so they could continue to get funding from the central government. And my Chinese friends have told me frankly that many of the technologies we see in China came about because entire companies were bought out.

Our problem is slavish mentality. We feel the need for someone else to teach us. The Prime Minister of a nuclear armed country goes around the world, begging people to teach us how to govern. What a joke! In seventy years we could not develop the vision to develop Gawadar through our own initiative. Like a damsel in distress, we need some shining knight to come to our rescue. Well, the fact is, there are no shining knights. By submitting yourself to the pedagogy of others, you enslave yourself. No one is going to teach you so much that you became their masters. You are on your own, and Allah has already given you all you need to excel. All you need to do is end the mental slavery.

”Basic "... If a skyscraper has no foundation. It can't be done. If a country has no industrial accumulation. All technology is fantasy. Just stay on the paper.

In the Mao era. China's literacy rate has reached 75%. Now Pakistan and india?

In the Mao era. China has been able to make warship steel.

In the Mao era. China can build wind tunnels.

In the Mao era. China can manufacture aerospace grade industrial materials.

In the Mao era. China can build nuclear submarines.

In the Mao era. China can manufacture intercontinental ballistic missiles and submarine launched ballistic missiles.

......................................................................................

For example - type 055 DDG. Its name was "055 project" in 60s. 055 was a dream of the Chinese at that time. It carries the Chinese dream of building a world-class Navy.

But why don't Mao make 055?!!

Why didn't China make 055 in 1960s?!!

The problem is very simple: industrial accumulation is not enough.

Back to the 5th generation fighter. thanks very much for the great contribution made by Mao era. They have built a complete aviation industry chain. From 2 to 3 generations. They build forward-looking plans and most of them come true. but I'm sorry. The J-9 is the first third generation aircraft in Asia. Bankruptcy because of industrial capacity. Y-10 is the largest transport aircraft in Asia. Mass production was cancelled because of funding.

As some Westerners and Chinese say, "three elements of success"—— buying, manpower, espionage.

Suppose there are only three elements.... It seems very simple. So suppose - you buy technology. You have manpower. You learned espionage from the CIA. can you make it?

I'm very honest with you - No.

Technology is based on industry. But unfortunately. Industry cannot be achieved through the "three elements of success".

Salute Pakistan. You made the first step of the plan. Let the future test it.

 

[Path-Finder]

I am to know if any training amd study centre setup yet?
R&D, infrastructure to support local development

and how we will overcome international bans
sending students to seek advance knowledge and see them return with less deserters and steady support from all governments of future


my post has generated a thought process and a lively debate from a section of members and I am very grateful.
thanks for your point and I agree with its general theme and points that may or may not be directly relevant to the subject.

regarding deserters and spies there is always a risk whenever we send our people abroad , civilian or uniformed. that subject it out of scope of this thread so I urge everyone reading bout this leave it for another time.

I will respond in one post to everyone who took their time to respond in detail to my inquiry and my PoV.


I responded to your post that has triggered the discussion in a certain direction. Although the discussion is with Project Azm in mind but my initial post has generated a sub thread within it.
should we keep this all here or filter this all out into a new thread?

this question is to all who responded to my original and follow up posts.


Respected members
=============
I took the liberty of moving your posts here that were in response to my initial inquiry about our current expertise and suggestion of sending our people abroad (west or east) to bridge the knowledge gap and later on train our future personnel inside Pakistan.

Respected Moderator. would it not be a wise decision to have a sub forum like we do for JF-17 and PAF Archives for Project Azm? Its only going to get bigger so why not make it a pool!

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Respected Moderator. would it not be a wise decision to have a sub forum like we do for JF-17 and PAF Archives for Project Azm? Its only going to get bigger so why not make it a pool!

please raise it in suggestions section
its a good idea.

 

[Path-Finder]

please raise it in suggestions section
its a good idea.

Done.

 

[Rana4pak]

”Basic "... If a skyscraper has no foundation. It can't be done. If a country has no industrial accumulation. All technology is fantasy. Just stay on the paper.

In the Mao era. China's literacy rate has reached 75%. Now Pakistan and india?

In the Mao era. China has been able to make warship steel.

In the Mao era. China can build wind tunnels.

In the Mao era. China can manufacture aerospace grade industrial materials.

In the Mao era. China can build nuclear submarines.

In the Mao era. China can manufacture intercontinental ballistic missiles and submarine launched ballistic missiles.

......................................................................................

For example - type 055 DDG. Its name was "055 project" in 60s. 055 was a dream of the Chinese at that time. It carries the Chinese dream of building a world-class Navy.

But why don't Mao make 055?!!

Why didn't China make 055 in 1960s?!!

The problem is very simple: industrial accumulation is not enough.

Back to the 5th generation fighter. thanks very much for the great contribution made by Mao era. They have built a complete aviation industry chain. From 2 to 3 generations. They build forward-looking plans and most of them come true. but I'm sorry. The J-9 is the first third generation aircraft in Asia. Bankruptcy because of industrial capacity. Y-10 is the largest transport aircraft in Asia. Mass production was cancelled because of funding.

As some Westerners and Chinese say, "three elements of success"—— buying, manpower, espionage.

Suppose there are only three elements.... It seems very simple. So suppose - you buy technology. You have manpower. You learned espionage from the CIA. can you make it?

I'm very honest with you - No.

Technology is based on industry. But unfortunately. Industry cannot be achieved through the "three elements of success".

Salute Pakistan. You made the first step of the plan. Let the future test it.

All thing happened bcz of honest leader Mao so we are waiting or looking for honest one may be he is Imran khan let’s see

 

[CriticalThought]

So, the first example of a 'Loyal Wingman' has come out in Australia:

Australian-made Loyal Wingman air combat drone with AI-driven targeting system completes first test flight

Australian-made Loyal Wingman air combat drone with AI-driven targeting system completes first test flight
By defence correspondent Andrew Greene 1 hour ago

a person standing next to a plane: The Loyal Wingman prototype is the first military drone to be designed in Australia. (Supplied)© Provided by ABC NEWS The Loyal Wingman prototype is the first military drone to be designed in Australia. (Supplied)
An Australian-designed military drone that uses artificial intelligence to target enemies has conducted its first secretive test flight at Woomera.

The Loyal Wingman was developed by US manufacturer Boeing in conjunction with the Defence Department and Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF), which wants to send the system into battle alongside traditional crewed aircraft such as the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.

The drone is roughly the size of a traditional jet fighter and has a range of 3,700 kilometres.

Its primary purpose is expected to be electronic warfare and reconnaissance missions, particularly in environments where it is considered risky to send crewed aircraft.

Boeing confirmed the Loyal Wingman's initial flight was completed on Saturday at the Woomera Range Complex in the South Australian outback.

"The Loyal Wingman's first flight is a major step in this long-term, significant project for the Air Force and Boeing Australia, and we're thrilled to be a part of the successful test," said Air-Vice Marshal Cath Roberts, the RAAF's Head of Capability.

"The Loyal Wingman project is a pathfinder for the integration of autonomous systems and artificial intelligence to create smart human-machine teams."

The successful flight coincides with an additional $115 million in government investment in the Loyal Wingman program, on top of the $40 million which had already been committed.

The RAAF plans to buy three drones, which Boeing calls the Airpower Teaming System (ATS), as part of the Loyal Wingman Advanced Development Program.

ATS uses artificial intelligence to complement and extend missions flown by traditional combat aircraft.

A working prototype of the combat drone was unveiled last year but planned test flights in December were pushed back due to COVID-19 border restrictions and unfavourable weather conditions.

Boeing says additional Loyal Wingman aircraft are currently under development, with plans for more test flights alongside crewed jets scheduled for later this year.

"We have conceived, designed, built and now flown the first [Australian] military aircraft in half a century," said Brendan Nelson, president of Boeing Australia.

 

[CriticalThought]

I put some thought on where to post this, and in the end decided on this thread. This would be pure gold on S-400 threads as well.

@SQ8

For such a long time we have been discussing fifth-gen aircraft, BVRs, and UCAVs under project Azm. Let us look at the technologies that US is developing against S-400. From the video, here are the upcoming techs:

• AARGM-ER
• SDB-2 'Stormbreaker' glide bombs
• AIM-260 JATM
• E2-D Hawkeye
• EA-18G Growlers equipped with Next Gen Jammer Pod

Also pay close attention to fifth gen tactics: Using a wave of inexpensive glide bombs to force the enemy's hand with AARGM-ERs coming in after. And the bombs are released with coordinated timing so they arrive on target at the same time.

So, in addition to discussing weapons, we should also be discussing new fifth gen tactics.

 

[SQ8]

I put some thought on where to post this, and in the end decided on this thread. This would be pure gold on S-400 threads as well.

@SQ8

For such a long time we have been discussing fifth-gen aircraft, BVRs, and UCAVs under project Azm. Let us look at the technologies that US is developing against S-400. From the video, here are the upcoming techs:

• AARGM-ER
• SDB-2 'Stormbreaker' glide bombs
• AIM-260 JATM
• E2-D Hawkeye
• EA-18G Growlers equipped with Next Gen Jammer Pod

Also pay close attention to fifth gen tactics: Using a wave of inexpensive glide bombs to force the enemy's hand with AARGM-ERs coming in after. And the bombs are released with coordinated timing so they arrive on target at the same time.

So, in addition to discussing weapons, we should also be discussing new fifth gen tactics.

These tactics are an evolution of what was done to Iraqi AD in the gulf war - the change has been focused on more stand off systems and coordination when saturating systems such as the S-400.


Next Gen is critical and I think we need to decouple next gen from a manned aircraft. Small VLO UAVs (For UAVs that VLO bar can be even lower) have the potential to sneak past AD and get in range to deploy additional weapons.