Practical and tangible steps to bring about structural changes in Pakistan

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

VCheng Quote: "This thread is a direct off-shoot of my discussions in another thread, and is intended to be a constructive topic for senior Pakistani posters to discuss practical and tangible steps to bring about structural changes that are direly needed to put Pakistan back on track."

Because right now, the government, the media and the civil society are like the three monkeys who hear no evil, see no evil and speak no evil, despite everything that is in front of them.

Without forcing them to change (and the 'how to do that' goes back to the questions posed by you in your last post, which, IMO, is a constructive topic the senior Pakistani posters can, and should, spend time on) there can be no way to bring about 'long term change', democratically at least.

Because, for all my scathing attacks, the Pakistan military is the best collection of patriots I have seen ever, except the very top.

Because the military themselves have a duty to put right what they have had a great role in putting wrong in the first place.

But here you are arguing for the 'military to intervene in the running of the State'.

Here is my quick and simple thought on how the 'Army' could try and 'fix' Pakistan's structural weaknesses - Army coup, change system of government to Presidential (and Federal, keeping in place the NFC and other provincial accords currently enjoying a degree of support across the board), and make local governments constitutional, along with putting all intelligence and security agencies (military, para military, law enforcement) under 'bipartisan' committees (at Federal and Provincial levels), similar to the Supreme Court Justice nomination process.

But that requires a 'Coup', and there is no guarantee that the same old faces will no again be elected and overthrow the changes brought about by the military under the guise of 'dictator imposed anti-democracy changes'. I suppose that while the military is 'violating the constitution', it could also round up every Wadera, Sardar, Chaudhry, Sharif and Zardari and put them in front of a firing squad before international pressure piles up in favor of releasing them, so that we are at least rid of some of these leaches, or the really influential and dangerous ones at least.

Would you support the above? I don't really see how else the 'military' can become the 'harbinger of change' in Pakistan.

 

[AAtish]

Without forcing them to change (and the 'how to do that' goes back to the questions posed by you in your last post, which, IMO, is a constructive topic the senior Pakistani posters can, and should, spend time on) there can be no way to bring about 'long term change', democratically at least.

But here you are arguing for the 'military to intervene in the running of the State'.

Here is my quick and simple thought on how the 'Army' could try and 'fix' Pakistan's structural weaknesses - Army coup, change system of government to Presidential (and Federal, keeping in place the NFC and other provincial accords currently enjoying a degree of support across the board), and make local governments constitutional, along with putting all intelligence and security agencies (military, para military, law enforcement) under 'bipartisan' committees (at Federal and Provincial levels), similar to the Supreme Court Justice nomination process.

But that requires a 'Coup', and there is no guarantee that the same old faces will no again be elected and overthrow the changes brought about by the military under the guise of 'dictator imposed anti-democracy changes'. I suppose that while the military is 'violating the constitution', it could also round up every Wadera, Sardar, Chaudhry, Sharif and Zardari and put them in front of a firing squad before international pressure piles up in favor of releasing them, so that we are at least rid of some of these leaches, or the really influential and dangerous ones at least.

Would you support the above? I don't really see how else the 'military' can become the 'harbinger of change' in Pakistan.

On short term basis, it will work wonders

On long term basis, we will have bundle of 'political shaheeds' who 'sacrificed' there lives for democracy..

we have been suffering from some 'political shaheeds' for over 30 years already.. i don't think that we can afford more..

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

On short term basis, it will work wonders

On long term basis, we will have bundle of 'political shaheeds' who 'sacrificed' there lives for democracy..

we have been suffering from some 'political shaheeds' for over 30 years already.. i don't think that we afford more..

Well then, we are back to 'bring about change democratically', which means that Pakistanis have to be educated and educate themselves about the political options they have, outside of the PML-N, PPP and PML-Q, and vote them in come election time and pressure them to enact changes along the lines of those outlined.

 

[AAtish]

Well then, we are back to 'bring about change democratically', which means that Pakistanis have to be educated and educate themselves about the political options they have, outside of the PML-N, PPP and PML-Q, and vote them in come election time and pressure them to enact changes along the lines of those outlined.

Yes, apart from Military coup, democratic change is the only option, this is exactly what i have been talking about with VChang, it will take time, it will require us all to educate people, those who can, should do!

We have a big community of people who understand the situation, who are literate, who have logic, who have charisma, but the only problem is, they are lazy, they don't want to go out and work for betterment.. Our literate class is looking for spoon feeding..

As i told to VChang, i'm doing my bit honestly, so should everyone else, patriotism is not bad, it is good, religion is not bad, it is good, the only thing we need to do is to stay positive, and bring out positives from people we talk to.. negativity will take us down, positiveness will do wonders..

So it is time we stop looking for miracles and start developing and building the nation..

 

[VCheng]

This thread is a direct off-shoot of my discussions in another thread, and is intended to be a constructive topic for senior Pakistani posters to discuss practical and tangible steps to bring about structural changes that are direly needed to put Pakistan back on track.

To get the discussion started, I will quote an excerpt from the other thread:

..........................

Here is my quick and simple thought on how the 'Army' could try and 'fix' Pakistan's structural weaknesses - Army coup, change system of government to Presidential (and Federal, keeping in place the NFC and other provincial accords currently enjoying a degree of support across the board), and make local governments constitutional, along with putting all intelligence and security agencies (military, para military, law enforcement) under 'bipartisan' committees (at Federal and Provincial levels), similar to the Supreme Court Justice nomination process.

But that requires a 'Coup', and there is no guarantee that the same old faces will no again be elected and overthrow the changes brought about by the military under the guise of 'dictator imposed anti-democracy changes'. I suppose that while the military is 'violating the constitution', it could also round up every Wadera, Sardar, Chaudhry, Sharif and Zardari and put them in front of a firing squad before international pressure piles up in favor of releasing them, so that we are at least rid of some of these leaches, or the really influential and dangerous ones at least.

Would you support the above? I don't really see how else the 'military' can become the 'harbinger of change' in Pakistan.

Please keep everything directed at WHAT is being said instead of WHO is saying it.

 

[VCheng]

Effective institutions of governance are indeed critical. Please take ANY government department as an example, and tell me how one would increase its effectiveness? Assume that you were made in-charge of any department that you would like to, and let's discuss what can and cannot be done, one step at a time. Please convince me that I am wrong in thinking that I do not see any reason for optimism rather than just calling me names.

 

[AAtish]

On short term basis, it will work wonders

On long term basis, we will have bundle of 'political shaheeds' who 'sacrificed' there lives for democracy..

we have been suffering from some 'political shaheeds' for over 30 years already.. i don't think that we can afford more..

Apart from Military coup, democratic change is the only option, this is exactly what i have been talking about with VChang, it will take time, it will require us all to educate people, those who can, should do!

We have a big community of people who understand the situation, who are literate, who have logic, who have charisma, but the only problem is, they are lazy, they don't want to go out and work for betterment.. Our literate class is looking for spoon feeding..

As i told to VChang, i'm doing my bit honestly, so should everyone else, patriotism is not bad, it is good, religion is not bad, it is good, the only thing we need to do is to stay positive, and bring out positives from people we talk to.. negativity will take us down, positiveness will do wonders..

So it is time we stop looking for miracles and start developing and building the nation..

Edit: This is an excerpt from another thread too, i have combined two posts together..

 

[AAtish]

Effective institutions of governance are indeed critical. Please take ANY government department as an example, and tell me how one would increase its effectiveness? Assume that you were made in-charge of any department that you would like to, and let's discuss what can and cannot be done, one step at a time. Please convince me that I am wrong in thinking that I do not see any reason for optimism rather than just calling me names.

I would suggest selecting departments one-by-one, and then every one provides strategies to develop that department. Strategies, Models, Approaches whatever they can develop.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

OK - copied over the relevant posts.

 

[VCheng]

I would suggest selecting departments one-by-one, and then every one provides strategies to develop that department. Strategies, Models, Approaches whatever they can develop.

Edit: See AM's post #12 below.

 

[AAtish]

Thanks VCheng and Agno, i'll be back in short while, need to straighten my thoughts, need to analyse few things.. i'll be gradually giving my inputs in this thread, please ensure that this thread stays positive, negativity and suggestively negative posts should be deleted.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Effective institutions of governance are indeed critical. Please take ANY government department as an example, and tell me how one would increase its effectiveness? Assume that you were made in-charge of any department that you would like to, and let's discuss what can and cannot be done, one step at a time. Please convince me that I am wrong in thinking that I do not see any reason for optimism rather than just calling me names.

I would start off with listing some of the most important institutions, given the current situation in Pakistan, that need reform:

1. Election Commission - it needs to be independent and neutral, and empowered, to increase the confidence of ordinary Pakistanis and those running for political office, that the electoral process will be fair. The suggestions to make the nomination of the EC 'neutral' are already floating around under the 'Charter of Democracy', which the PPP is so far refusing to implement under one pretext or another.

Reform in this institution is also important because support for the current 'democratic process' appears to be in significant decline, and faith in the electoral process needs to be increased to make the system work.

2. FPSC - Federal Public Service Commission - IIRC, responsible for promotions, evaluations of Federal employees etc. Allow government employees to start doing their jobs without fear of being targeted on the basis of political bias.

3. FIA, NAB, IB - Again, remove from the purview of the Interior Ministry, and appoint their heads through a bipartisan commission so that the organizations can function independent of political influence and pressure. Proposals to make the NAB an 'independent and neutral entity' are also floating around, under the 'Charter of Democracy', which the PPP is also refusing to implement.

I would argue that the changes in these institutions alone would make a significant impact on the country.

 

[VCheng]

I would start off with listing some of the most important institutions, given the current situation in Pakistan, that need reform:

1. Election Commission - it needs to be independent and neutral, and empowered, to increase the confidence of ordinary Pakistanis and those running for political office, that the electoral process will be fair. The suggestions to make the nomination of the EC 'neutral' are already floating around under the 'Charter of Democracy', which the PPP is so far refusing to implement under one pretext or another.

Reform in this institution is also important because support for the current 'democratic process' appears to be in significant decline, and faith in the electoral process needs to be increased to make the system work.

2. FPSC - Federal Public Service Commission - IIRC, responsible for promotions, evaluations of Federal employees etc. Allow government employees to start doing their jobs without fear of being targeted on the basis of political bias.

3. FIA, NAB, IB - Again, remove from the purview of the Interior Ministry, and appoint their heads through a bipartisan commission so that the organizations can function independent of political influence and pressure. Proposals to make the NAB an 'independent and neutral entity' are also floating around, under the 'Charter of Democracy', which the PPP is also refusing to implement.

I would argue that the changes in these institutions alone would make a significant impact on the country.

Three very important entities to be sure, and good kernels for discussion.

A few questions:

1. How is the Election Commission appointed currently, and what is the proposed change in that?

2. How is the FPSC currently appointed, and how are the rules for appointments, promotions, and evaluations set now, and how would that change?

3. How are the roles for the various organs within the Interior Ministry decided presently, and how is that to change to improve the process?

 

[VCheng]

Okay, here is some relevant material to discuss:

ELECTION COMMISSION OF PAKISTAN

The Election Commission of Pakistan is an independent and autonomous constitutional body charged with the function of conducting transparent, free, fair and impartial elections to the National and Provincial Assemblies. The holding of elections to the office of the President and the Senate, and the conduct of Local Government Elections are the functions of the Chief Election Commissioner.

The Election Commission consists of the Chairman (Chief Election Commissioner of Pakistan) and four Members each drawn from the sitting judges of the High Courts of their respective Provinces.

All the executive authorities in the Federation and in the provinces are constitutionally duty bound to assist the Chief Election Commissioner and the Election Commission in the discharge of his or its functions.

The Election Commission of Pakistan enjoys full financial and administrative autonomy and works independently of all government control.

The Election Commission performs its functions without interference of the executive. The Election Schedule for the conduct of General Elections as well as for the bye-elections is decided by the Election Commission or, as the case may be, by the Chief Election Commissioner.

The preparation of polling schemes, the appointment of polling personnel, assignments of voters and arrangements for the maintenance of law and order are under the control, supervision and directions of the Election Commission.

The Budget of the Election Commission is provided by the Federal Government. Any re-appropriation within the sanctioned Budget can be done by the Chief Election Commissioner without making any reference to the Finance Division.

FUNCTIONS OF CHIEF ELECTION COMMISSIONER

(1) To prepare electoral rolls for elections to the National and Provincial Assemblies and revising such rolls annually. [Article 219 (a)];

(2) To organize and conduct election to the Senate and fill casual vacancies in a House or a Provincial Assembly [Article 219(b)];

(3) To appoint Election Tribunals. [Article 219 (c)];

(4) To decide cases of disqualification of members of Parliament and Provincial Assemblies under Article 63(2) and Article 63A of the Constitution on receipt of reference from the Chairman or the Speaker or Head of the political party, as the case may be;

(5) To hold and conduct election to the office of the President as per Second Schedule to the Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan [Article 41 (3)];

(6) To hold Referendum as and when ordered by the President. [Article 48 (6)];

(7) To make rules providing for the appointment of officers and servants to be employed in connection with the functions of the Chief Election Commissioner or an Election Commission and for their terms and conditions of employment. Under this power, the Honorable Chief Election Commissioner framed the Election Commission (Officers & Servants) Rules, 1989. [Article 221];

APPOINTMENTS

CHIEF ELECTION COMMISSIONER

The Chief Election Commissioner is appointed by the President of Pakistan. The Chief Election Commissioner can be a person, who is, or has been, a judge of the Supreme Court or is, or has been, a judge of a High Court and is qualified to be appointed as a judge of the Supreme Court. The term of Chief Election Commissioner is three years from the day he enters upon his office. The National Assembly may by resolution extend the term of the Commissioner by a period not exceeding one year. The Chief Election Commissioner enjoys the same privileges as of the Chief Justice of Pakistan.

MEMBERS

Each one of the four members of the Election Commission are appointed by the President in consultation with the Chief Justice of the High Court of the province concerned and the Chief Election Commissioner.

 

[somebozo]

First step would be to stop American meddling into Pakistani affairs either through proxy support to its Millitary or by sponsering puppet governments like the one currently led by Zardari.