Post Strike on Indian Army Ammo & Supply Depot

[Pakistan Space Agency]

These kind of strikes are not sustainable. Once the element of surprise is lost, half of the next package won't return home.

You got that right. Here's the IAF package from Day 2 of the conflict:

 

[Signalian]

I am not expert and i dont want to start again what you did on 27th Feb. But to claim that you are up against some ragtag Air force and bring it down on any given day is an overstatement.

What makes a formation rag-tag are few things which were seen by IAF that day - level of training, communication, coordination and operational execution. All these factors failed and i will describe them very briefly.

1. Level of training - that a wing commander (equivalent to Lt Col, able to command at least 2-3 Fighter squadrons forming one wing), was sent in one of the oldest fighters of IAF, while he had been qualified on SU-30 MKI. With such experience and a command level behind him, sending him in the air on Mig-21 was a mistake which proved embarrassingly deadly that day. Secondly, downing of own Mi-17 shows the confused level of training during combat, which translates that even real live fire exercises and simulations would be prone to accidents. No wonder, there is a high crash rate in IAF already. Thirdly, IAF fell for the oldest trick in the book - an ambush laid by PAF during return journey of JF-17s and Mirage-III/V. Now considering that PAF could have fallen for the same trap a day earlier, which it didnt, what made IAF's Mig-21 blindly flying towards LOC is what im going to tell next.

2. Communication was thoroughly jammed for IAF, there was PAF EW aircraft in the air which was providing EW cover to PAF fighters in the region, further backed up by 1-2 AWACS, probably Erieye since F-16s were on CAP. For jamming, the bigger transmitter, the better. Probably for this reason and maybe other reasons, PAF didnt choose a fighter jet but a category of transport plane to have a full crew of EW specialists (housing 8-12 staff) on board rather can just a pilot and WSO, along with a full array of related EW sensors. Abhinandan admitted that there was too much noise and he couldn't understand instructions from control tower. Now IAF is on the road to revamp their communication radios - this was a big loop in communication. However, let me assure you that even secure radios can be jammed while IAF was using un-secure radios.

3. Coordination was in disarray. IAF CAPs should have intercepted PAF jets, IAF AWACS should have picked them up, even the AD radars should have picked up PAF fighters and targeted them through SAMs. PAF crossed over LOC at a few places and since a retaliation from PAF was expected just like the official statement from ISPR had been publicised all over media and news channels, IAF should have had hunter-killer flights of 3-4 SU30MKIs or Mig-29s or Mirage-2000 or Mig-21s in place to deter PAF from carrying out a surface attack. There are 240-270 SU30MKI in service, whats the use of buying such hundreds of heavy strike aircrafts then ?

4. Lastly, by the end of the day, IAF had lost 2 x fighter aircrafts, 1 x SAR heli, 1 x pilot captured, 2 x pilots killed and 6 x uniformed personnel along with 1 x civilian killed. The trophy that IAF could produce were parts of an AIM120C5 missile and 1 x crow killed a day earlier. The figures themselves speak about the Ops preparedness of IAF.

And after that the focus shifted on - Rafale.

 

[truthfollower]

And it is said that the second H-4 strike at Brigade HQ is even more clearer which PAF is yet to release.

is this one strike at brigade HQ? at0:55

 

[Avatar]

That was the moment when IAF choose to kill a crow & couple of trees and couldn't achieve anything except for the RSS Log Book success. On other hand, PAF showed a more of a strike in bright daylight and IAF was like sitting duck loosing couple of Jets & then shot down own Chopper.... that was the moment of kaboom especially when some villagers stole the black box of IAF Heli.

Statement made by Indias former air chief:

“We hit the target with five stand-off weapons. The ‘target hit’ information was delayed as weapons for video recording the kill failed, and the satellite pass at 8.30am could not pick up much due to clouds. The first confirmation came through synthetic aperture camera, showing penetration in the roof of Balakot buildings. We hit three buildings and left one deliberately. The weapon is designed in such a way that building survives but the occupants don’t,” he said.

On the future of IAF’s response capabilities, he said: “With the induction of the S-400 missile system and the Rafales, we will be in position to effect a behavioural change within the Pakistan establishment. If we had these two platforms or only Rafale with us on February 27, and we had shot down four or five of their aircrafts, the behavioural change would have taken place immediately.”

ISI/Pak Army did not allow any reporters near the madarassa for the next couple of days - Why the wait? - Definitely because of clean up operations.

 

[Avatar]

In this day and age with the quality of precision weapons available, you seldom need to go for same target twice....provided you know how to use and deliver those weapons.

Based on available PAF inventory:
1) The only reason Swift Retort succeeded is because of the element of surprise. Nobody expected PAF to take such a large risk. It was a bold and daring move for a reason and it took IAF by surprise. Repeating it will be akin to suicide.
2) After the first strike on a military target, you will be effectively at war with India and IAF will go into high alert all across the western sector.
3) With integration of newer assets such as the Rafale, S-400, Astra BVR and new weapons suites, newer tactics, it is much harder for PAF to violate India's airspace without losing assets.
4) F-16s played the major role. You have what - 50 or 60 of them? JF-17 seems to have been there only for ceremonial purpose. In a fair engagement where both sides are evenly matched, do you expect the same outcome?

 

[Ultima Thule]

ISI/Pak Army did not allow any reporters near the madarassa for the next couple of days - Why the wait? - Definitely because of clean up operations.

BBC reporter went ground zero on very next day

 

[Cookie Monster]

Based on available PAF inventory:
1) The only reason Swift Retort succeeded is because of the element of surprise. Nobody expected PAF to take such a large risk. It was a bold and daring move for a reason and it took IAF by surprise. Repeating it will be akin to suicide.
2) After the first strike on a military target, you will be effectively at war with India and IAF will go into high alert all across the western sector.
3) With integration of newer assets such as the Rafale, S-400, Astra BVR and new weapons suites, newer tactics, it is much harder for PAF to violate India's airspace without losing assets.
4) F-16s played the major role. You have what - 50 or 60 of them? JF-17 seems to have been there only for ceremonial purpose. In a fair engagement where both sides are evenly matched, do you expect the same outcome?

Hmmm I see u have declared victory here in ur post for India...where have I seen that before? Oh right every online Indian ever.

It's simple...if u think Pakistan is weak...and u have pending territorial claims on Pak's Kashmir....why wait? Logically it would be the best time to strike while India is super strong and Pakistan is super weak according to u. Come and get it

PS...there's tons of holes in ur post...but I'm not gonna bother correcting bcuz it's obvious u r not interested in logic and reality...ur post clearly stems from delusions...so carry on.

 

[Avatar]

Hmmm I see u have declared victory here in ur post for India...where have I seen that before? Oh right every online Indian ever.

It's simple...if u think Pakistan is weak...and u have pending territorial claims on Pak's Kashmir....why wait? Logically it would be the best time to strike while India is super strong and Pakistan is super weak according to u. Come and get it

PS...there's tons of holes in ur post...but I'm not gonna bother correcting bcuz it's obvious u r not interested in logic and reality...ur post clearly stems from delusions...so carry on.

I have not declared victory at all.
I am merely contesting the assumption that PAF can repeat the same strategy with the same result, which is a fact even PAF or any mature Pakistani members here will attest to.
As to why India does not attack - It is because India isn't interested in war. War is too costly and there is nothing much for India to gain other than subduing Pakistan for a few decades.. but that will lead to a rise in extremism, regional instability and terror attacks all of which are more undesirable than the current predicament. Terrorism is not good for either Pakistan or India, as I hope you have come to realize.

Pakistan, by default is on a self chosen path of economic failure. The CPEC is a constructive move towards a better economy but the $50 billion debt that is being undertaken is hard to justify in any way. It would be far better to use these loans to directly infuse $5 billion a year in the economy and invest about $5 billion a year in critical areas where Pakistan is lacking such as water storage infrastructure, power generation and transportation network.. You could just source the power plants from China and do the remaining work using Pakistani workforce. The debt you are subjecting yourself to will eventually command additional interest payments of $5 billion a year while all current CPEC expenses are benefiting Chinese economy.

Also, let me clarify - Pak military is not weak. For a small country, it is very strong. However, Indian military are stronger by every parameter, simply due to sheer difference in the size and economies.. Pakistan has been repeatedly defeated when the odds were far more favorable.

Today, honestly - We must all work on fixing our covid mess and revitalizing our economies.. Its very irresponsible by China to flare up all these tensions while the world is in a disaster recovery mode.

 

[PeacefulWar]

Based on available PAF inventory:
1) The only reason Swift Retort succeeded is because of the element of surprise. Nobody expected PAF to take such a large risk. It was a bold and daring move for a reason and it took IAF by surprise. Repeating it will be akin to suicide.
2) After the first strike on a military target, you will be effectively at war with India and IAF will go into high alert all across the western sector.
3) With integration of newer assets such as the Rafale, S-400, Astra BVR and new weapons suites, newer tactics, it is much harder for PAF to violate India's airspace without losing assets.
4) F-16s played the major role. You have what - 50 or 60 of them? JF-17 seems to have been there only for ceremonial purpose. In a fair engagement where both sides are evenly matched, do you expect the same outcome?

How?
Indian fighter crossed the border and attacked Pakistan then "surprised" PAF would attack back?
How professional are IAF!

More shockingly to me is that you people think it's okay! Nothing wrong here OMG.

 

[Avatar]

How?
Indian fighter crossed the border and attacked Pakistan then "surprised" PAF would attack back?
How professional are IAF!

More shockingly to me is that you people think it's okay! Nothing wrong here OMG.

PAF was always assumed to be a defensive force that historically made much fewer sorties even in a defensive stance to reduce risk and conserve itself. An aggressive strike attempt with a package that committed 10-20% of its force at once, during broad daylight was very out of the box and deserves credit where its due.

 

[PeacefulWar]

PAF was always assumed to be a defensive force that historically made much fewer sorties even in a defensive stance to reduce risk and conserve itself. An aggressive strike attempt with a package that committed 10-20% of its force at once, during broad daylight was very out of the box and deserves credit where its due.

It's not like that IAF is routinely drop a bomb in Pakistan territory in reality, isn't it?
It's a super rare/unprecedent move for IAF to strike a target inside Pakistan.

Now after such a unprecedent move, IAF just think/wish PAF won't do anything? Really?
Sorry, but your argument doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Ultima Thule]

PAF was always assumed to be a defensive force that historically made much fewer sorties even in a defensive stance to reduce risk and conserve itself. An aggressive strike attempt with a package that committed 10-20% of its force at once, during broad daylight was very out of the box and deserves credit where its due.

There is 2 version of 27 Feb air strike by PAF as per Indians we attacked with 24 jets (mixture of F-16 and Mirages) whereas ISPR clearly states strike package only include 12 jets (6 Mirages and 6 JFT for escort), F-16 doing CAP well inside Pakistani airspace

 

[In arduis fidelis]

Taking out an Infantry Bde HQ means losing coordination between at least 3-4 battalions of infantry and maybe an artillery regiment. As a result then, temporarily Division HQ has to coordinate with these infantry battalions independently or assign these infantry battalions to another Brigade of the Division, which means delay in all Ops for infantry battalions of that Bde and maybe even shift/change of plans. Losing at least 4 key officers - Bde Commander (Brig), G1 Ops (Lt Col), the all important BM (Major) and G-3 Ops (captain).

I always thought G-1 appointments are only at Div or Corps level.

 

[GamoAccu]

India panicked when PAF jets came at them

 

[Thorough Pro]

SO why didn't IAF tried again? Why did they ran away? What made Modi and his cronies resort to a missile attack instead of sending in the second strike force of IAF?

These kind of strikes are not sustainable. Once the element of surprise is lost, half of the next package won't return home.