Possible Russian S-400 sale to India and Pakistan's Response.

[GumNaam]

Even WWII flak guns has altitude ceiling of more than 8Kms (8.8 cm), with some like 120mm M1 having altitude cieling of 18 Kms.

You don't get it, just cuz you have the range doesn't mean you'll get it. Even with height and proximity fuses, the shells have to get pretty dang close which is very difficult for an unguided aa shell against a fast moving target that is changing directions.

 

[ApparentRaceTraitor]

True. And top of that, our new found ally, Russia, who is drooling to get access to CPEC would sell us S400s as well. If they can offer us SU35s, the S400 isn't a big deal.

New found ally? No strategic alliance has been acknowledged between Pakistan and Russia save a few helos, engines and exercises.

China and India have the same strategic relationship with Russia (s-400s for both, su-35 for china, nuke subs and a/c for Indi, etc) that you have with China. So unless youre willing that by default china, india and pakistan are allies by virtue of being allies of the same country, then you're not saying much lad.

 

[Immortan.Joe]

ratheo has already developed a very advanced version of what I'm proposing using drones so it's not a very far fetched idea

You should view that video again ,and this time carefully. You would yourself understand why drone swarm is useless against S-400, let alone swarm of a high school project like CH-3/Burraq.

That video explains how USA would take on S-400 using mix of MALDS, JSOW-ER, HARM-HCSM . It is a combines arms tactics in electronic warfare, not an equivalent of ariel human waves.

 

[GumNaam]

You should view that video again ,and this time carefully. You would yourself understand why drone swarm is useless against S-400, let alone swarm of a high school project like CH-3/Burraq.

That video explains how USA would take on S-400 using mix of MALDS, JSOW-ER, HARM-HCSM . It is a combines arms tactics in electronic warfare, not an equivalent of ariel human waves.

As I said, it's a very advanced form using drones that I'm proposing.

New found ally? No strategic alliance has been acknowledged between Pakistan and Russia save a few helos, engines and exercises.

China and India have the same strategic relationship with Russia (s-400s for both, su-35 for china, nuke subs and a/c for Indi, etc) that you have with China. So unless youre willing that by default china, india and pakistan are allies by virtue of being allies of the same country, then you're not saying much lad.

Oh it's just a few engines, no alliance
Oh it's just a few gunships, no alliance
Oh it's just a few choppers, no alliance
Oh it's just a few su35s, no alliance
Oh it's just a few military exercises, no alliance
Oh is just a few S400s, no alliance

Keep telling yourself that man, that's awesome

 

[Immortan.Joe]

You don't get it, just cuz you have the range doesn't mean you'll get it. Even with height and proximity fuses, the shells have to get pretty dang close which is very difficult for an unguided aa shell against a fast moving target that is changing directions.

Except that drones are not jet powered and thus very slow. CH-3 demonstrated speed is between 120-150 Kmph with its postulated maximum speed being 220 Km/hr. Its maximum possible speed is less than half of WW-II fighter planes which were easily shot by AA guns, and AA guns these days are much faster, better, and radar guided.

So yes, it would be a turkey shoot of drones, if this technique is employed.

 

[GumNaam]

Except that drones are not jet powered and thus very slow. CH-3 demonstrated speed is between 120-150 Kmph with its postulated maximum speed being 220 Km/hr. Its maximum possible speed is less than half of WW-II fighter planes which were easily shot by AA guns, and AA guns these days are much faster, better, and radar guided.

So yes, it would be a turkey shoot of drones, if this technique is employed.

seriously? How hard do you think it would be for Pakistan to make jet drones??? It's not like we don't have experience making jet drones (and that just what's been announced)

 

[kaykay]

Interesting.
www.thehindu.com/news/national/no-russian-fighter-jets-for-pakistan-sergey-chemezov/article9225218.ece

 

[GumNaam]

Interesting.
www.thehindu.com/news/national/no-russian-fighter-jets-for-pakistan-sergey-chemezov/article9225218.ece

"the hindu"
must be sanskrit for the national enquirer!

Here's it from the horse's mouth:
https://sputniknews.com/military/201609081045073021-pakistan-russia-negotiating-fightersu-jets/

 

[Immortan.Joe]

seriously? How hard do you think it would be for Pakistan to make jet drones??? It's not like we don't have experience making jet drones (and that just what's been announced)

As difficult as it would be for Pakistan to make a stealth fighter jet, ie impossible. No country ,except USA, has successfully designed a jet powered drone, and ability to remote control a jet powered drones is a bridge too for even for established aerospace powers.

School projects or in development weapons dubbed as functional weapons does not count.

 

[ApparentRaceTraitor]

As I said, it's a very advanced form using drones that I'm proposing.



Oh it's just a few engines, no alliance
Oh it's just a few gunships, no alliance
Oh it's just a few choppers, no alliance
Oh it's just a few su35s, no alliance
Oh it's just a few military exercises, no alliance
Oh is just a few S400s, no alliance

Keep telling yourself that man, that's awesome

I meant no disrespect man, no need to get sarcastic.

Just saying that the nature of the relationship between china and russia can be described as truly strategic (the same that you have with china), india and russia as more of flexi-strategic in all honesty and retrospect, while pakistan and russia is nowhere near that level.

 

[Immortan.Joe]

"the hindu"
must be sanskrit for the national enquirer!

Don't go by the name.

It is the most Pakistan loving newspaper run by members of communist party of India.

 

[GumNaam]

As difficult as it would be for Pakistan to make a stealth fighter jet, ie impossible. No country ,except USA, has successfully designed a jet powered drone, and ability to control a jet powered drones is a bridge too for even for established aerospace powers.

School projects dubbed as functional weapons does not count.

those aren't school projects son, those are actual drones in service as we speak.

and if you think its impossible for Pakistan then keep believing that. you thought Pakistan's nuclear weapons would be impossible, we built them. you thought building tanks would be impossible, we built them. you thought fighter planes would be impossible, we built them. now that you've said that stealth fighters are impossible for Pakistan, you KNOW we're gonna build them and rub it in your face. Hey, what can I say, it's in our blood to do the impossible.

I meant no disrespect man, no need to get sarcastic.

Just saying that the nature of the relationship between china and russia can be described as truly strategic (the same that you have with china), india and russia as more of flexi-strategic in all honesty and retrospect, while pakistan and russia is nowhere near that level.

go through russia's history. they don't take too kindly to "partners" who cheat with russia's enemy.

Don't go by the name.

It is the most Pakistan loving newspaper run by members of communist party of India.

yeah as far as we're concerned, if its indian, its tabloid. you did it to yourself by disregarding the golden principle of objectivity in journalism and opting for facsist subjectivity instead. Only got yourself to blame if no one takes your media seriously.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

S400 can target even the size of football size flying object even at the rate of supersonic speed, WoW !

Not an expert.. but here is a scenerio....

india surely wont place SAMs on the border... if so even a few volleys of MLRS rockets will take it out.. unless it can intercept or defeat dozens of rockets at a time....

At important locations sure... but than again there might be contingencies to counter it..

 

[Immortan.Joe]

those aren't school projects son, those are actual drones in service as we speak.

and if you think its impossible for Pakistan then keep believing that. you thought Pakistan's nuclear weapons would be impossible, we built them. you thought building tanks would be impossible, we built them. you thought fighter planes would be impossible, we built them. now that you've said that stealth fighters are impossible for Pakistan, you KNOW we're gonna build them and rub it in your face. Hey, what can I say, it's in our blood to do the impossible.

.

CH-3/Burraq is a school project.Check its stats. A well funded science department of any college and some schools could make that. CH-3's equivalent ,Nishant-a drone developed by India in 1995, was rejected by Indian Air Force for being a joke.


If Pakistan wants a jet powered drone, it would have to get it the same they got their Nukes- buying it from China and assembling it in Pakistan, when China develops it.

 

[Grevion]

those aren't school projects son, those are actual drones in service as we speak.

and if you think its impossible for Pakistan then keep believing that. you thought Pakistan's nuclear weapons would be impossible, we built them. you thought building tanks would be impossible, we built them. you thought fighter planes would be impossible, we built them. now that you've said that stealth fighters are impossible for Pakistan, you KNOW we're gonna build them and rub it in your face. Hey, what can I say, it's in our blood to do the impossible.


go through russia's history. they don't take too kindly to "partners" who cheat with russia's enemy.


yeah as far as we're concerned, if its indian, its tabloid. you did it to yourself by disregarding the golden principle of objectivity in journalism and opting for facsist subjectivity instead. Only got yourself to blame if no one takes your media seriously.

We said it would be impossible for you to bulid nuclear weapons, you got them from China.

We said you can't build a tank, China build them for you and now you license produce them.

We said you can't build fighter jets, China again build them for you with licence production.

We said you can't even build a moped engine, Nope China ain't gonna build that for you instead they would be laughing at you.