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Possible Future AWACS and MPA planes

Karl

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Since the Boeing 737 AEW&C and Boeing P8 - Poseidon's are definitely off the menu. Who thinks Pakistan could go for next generation Airbus MPA'S and AWACS?

Airbus A319 MPA

Airbus A330-200 SAAB GLOBALEYE (offered to the UK goverment as an E3-Sentry replacement but UK will definitely go for Boeing 737 AEW&C)

4 of each would do it.


https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2018/07/06/airbus-and-saab-consider-challenge-to-boeing-wedgetail-for-uk/




https://www.naval-technology.com/projects/a319mpa/

Role

Maritime patrol and ASW aircraft
Manufacturer
Airbus Military
Crew
2 + 8 tactical oper./observer/ordenance
Overall Length
36m
Expand


The A319 MPA is a long range maritime patrol and ASW aircraft developed by Airbus Military. The aircraft can be deployed in anti-submarine and anti-surface warfare, intelligence, reconnaissance and surveillance missions.

The low-altitude loiter or search capability, exceeding range, endurance and fast transit speed make the A319 the best maritime patrol aircraft in its range.

A319 MPA aircraft design
The A319 MPA is a derivative of the Airbus A319 passenger aircraft. The airframe is made of corrosion resistant lightweight composite materials for lower fuel consumption.

Designed with larger access doors, the aircraft allows easier component replacement. The centralised maintenance system monitors the key aircraft components and automatically transfers anomalies to the aircraft base. The A319 MPA comes with an option for universal aerial refuelling receptacle slipway installation (UARRSI) for aerial refuelling.

The 3.7m long fuselage cross-section allows setting up of a spacious cabin housing six operator consoles, a galley, a toilet, electronic equipment racks and sonobuoy storage. The cabin has enough space to incorporate operator areas and a rest area for long endurance missions. The lower deck has been shaped to provide optimum space to house a bomb-bay and additional fuel tanks for extended range and endurance.

A319 MPA missions
The A319 MPA is equipped for classical fighting roles and new operations. In addition to maritime patrol roles, the aircraft can conduct joint operations with other units and international and coalition forces.

Flight deck
"The A319 MPA is equipped for classical fighting roles and new operations."
The flight deck is installed with six multi-functional displays. A head-up display (HUD) is also provided to increase pilot situational awareness during approach and landing operations.

The cockpit’s ergonomic design allows an unrestricted view of instruments and features two side stick controllers of the fly-by-wire system. The fly-by-wire flight control system reduces the pilot workload by providing flight envelope protection and responsive flight controls.

It also provides precise handling during turbulence. The onboard information terminal (OIT) transfers situational and sensor information to crew members. It also enhances crew coordination and mission assessment.

Weapon systems
The A319 MPA is fitted with anti-submarine and anti-surface weapon systems. The aircraft can carry a variety of weapons internally and on wing-pylons. The internal bomb-bay can house eight weapon stations for torpedoes, depth charges, mines and other ASW weaponry. Four under-wing points can hold missiles to attack naval or land-based targets.

Sensors / radars
The open architecture mission system of A319 MPA integrates a set of multi-mission sensors. The sensors coupled with modern communication systems enable the aircraft to conduct operations in a network centric operations (NCO) environment.

The complete suite of ASW sensors tracks and identifies under sea and surface targets.

The mission systems include a surveillance radar, IFF interrogator, IR/EO turret, acoustic system and magnetic anomaly detector (MAD).

Navigation and communication
The A319 MPA features fully integrated tactical system (FITS), a system successfully installed on the Airbus MPA family and on the P-3 Orion.

"The open architecture mission system of A319 MPA integrates a set of multi-mission sensors."
FITS integrates aircraft communication and datalink systems.

Six operator consoles installed in the cabin provide better situational awareness to conduct patrol and anti-submarine operations at low altitudes.

The aircraft can also be fitted with Link 11/22, Link 16, TCDL or enhanced message datalink systems to provide data, picture and video exchange with the network.

The communications equipment onboard allows dissemination of time-critical intelligence based on the information gathered and analysed during the mission.

The aircraft can be operated in a network including helicopters and unmanned platforms.

Countermeasures
The self-protection suite includes radar and missile warning systems. It is fully integrated with a decoy dispenser. The directed infrared countermeasures (DIRCM) system can be optionally fitted to protect against IR-guided missiles. An electronic support measures (ESM) system is also installed onboard.

Engine
The A319 MPA is powered by two IAE V2527M-A5 or CFM56-5B7 engines providing a thrust of 26,500lbf or 27,000lbf. The twin-turbofan configuration provides a maximum speed of Mach 0.82.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
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IMO ... it'll depend on whether Saab and Airbus will foot the bill for integrating the GlobalEye AEW&C and Swordfish MPA configurations to the Airbus A319 or A320. Basically, Saab and Airbus need to do the integration, testing and certification work first, and then let the PAF and PN evaluate the aircraft as live solutions (not concepts). Keep the final price close to the actual cost of integration work, no non-recurring engineering (NRE) costs or the like.
 
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Not sure the Swordfish MPA IS being adapted to the Airbus MPA.


I mean the Swordfish uses a Leonardo Seaspray AESA radar so is likely that the Airbus MPA will use the same or similar.

From another forum
'As I understand it, the Airbus FITS and Saab's Swordfish system are quite different in nature. From what I have been able to gather based on information Saab has put out, the Swordfish system is a set of specific sensors, avionics and workstations to provide a broad range of MPA capabilities. One thing Saab has specifically stated is that the maritime surveillance radar used in the Swordfish system, is the same maritime surveillance radar used in at least the maritime surveillance-focused versions of the Saab Globaleye AEW&C aircraft.

OTOH the Airbus FITS is which is more about the systems architecture and how the sensors and workstations connect and communicate with each other. Examples of that cover the palletized workstations available for the USCG's HC-144A Ocean Sentry version of the CN-239MP Persuader, as well as the fact that Airbus MPA offerings utilizing FITS allow customers to select which sensors they want in their maritime patrol and surveillance aircraft.

Put another way, I believe that if Saab and Airbus partnered together to provide maritime patrol and surveillance aircraft, then the Saab selected sensors and workstations would be connected together using FITS.

At present I have not encountered anything to suggest that the Swordfish system currently offered by Saab is scalable either up or down in terms of including additional sensors, or excluding sensors already packaged, or even substitution of sensor models.'

Agree with you on GlobalEye though. They need to do the work. It's concept at the moment.

https://www.defensenews.com/digital...-to-offer-airborne-early-warning-plane-to-uk/
 
Last edited:
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Not sure the Swordfish MPA IS being adapted to the Airbus MPA.


I mean the Swordfish uses a Leonardo Seaspray AESA radar so is likely that the Airbus MPA will use the same or similar.

From another forum
'As I understand it, the Airbus FITS and Saab's Swordfish system are quite different in nature. From what I have been able to gather based on information Saab has put out, the Swordfish system is a set of specific sensors, avionics and workstations to provide a broad range of MPA capabilities. One thing Saab has specifically stated is that the maritime surveillance radar used in the Swordfish system, is the same maritime surveillance radar used in at least the maritime surveillance-focused versions of the Saab Globaleye AEW&C aircraft.

OTOH the Airbus FITS is which is more about the systems architecture and how the sensors and workstations connect and communicate with each other. Examples of that cover the palletized workstations available for the USCG's HC-144A Ocean Sentry version of the CN-239MP Persuader, as well as the fact that Airbus MPA offerings utilizing FITS allow customers to select which sensors they want in their maritime patrol and surveillance aircraft.

Put another way, I believe that if Saab and Airbus partnered together to provide maritime patrol and surveillance aircraft, then the Saab selected sensors and workstations would be connected together using FITS.

At present I have not encountered anything to suggest that the Swordfish system currently offered by Saab is scalable either up or down in terms of including additional sensors, or excluding sensors already packaged, or even substitution of sensor models.'

Agree with you on GlobalEye though. They need to do the work. It's concept at the moment.

https://www.defensenews.com/digital...-to-offer-airborne-early-warning-plane-to-uk/
I see ... but in either case, the PAF and PN will want to see working aircraft first, so they know for sure how the system works and that they won't be swindled into NREs. That said, the A319 might get traction if the EU pushes ahead with it as regional P-8 and Wedgetail alternatives. So a joint-order by Germany, France, Spain, Italy, etc should offer scale and, assuming there's no design creep, keep the price reasonable.
 
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Instead, PN should invest in a local SOSUS like system and employ smaller and nimbler weapons delivery platforms that would be more survivable. Something like an S-3 type.

A localized SOSUS like system would save the exchequer billions of dollars of these highly expensive and vulnerable platforms that ultimately do the same job worse than the SOSUS - locate submarines. Not to mention all the money that goes into keeping them operational.

As for locating enemy warships and aircraft - use a combination of Chinese AEW&C and remote sensing satellites. SOSUS can also help track ships.

Use MALE UAVs to supplement these. And a 1000 ton corvette that's not trying to be a mini-frigate.
 
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Pakistan has seven AEW platforms operational with an eighth in repair and possibly two more in purchase. Turkey with a greater area operates only 4 AEW aircraft, Brazil only 5.
These platforms have enough airframe and sufficient radar power and upgrades available so that they can soldier on comfortable into the early 2040’s if need be. There is no requirement to keep buying AEW platforms or indulge into trillionaire fantasia when the finances of our forces are well known to be bordering on paucity.
 
.
Since the Boeing 737 AEW&C and Boeing P8 - Poseidon's are definitely off the menu. Who thinks Pakistan could go for next generation Airbus MPA'S and AWACS?

Airbus A319 MPA

Airbus A330-200 SAAB GLOBALEYE (offered to the UK goverment as an E3-Sentry replacement but UK will definitely go for Boeing 737 AEW&C)

4 of each would do it.


https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2018/07/06/airbus-and-saab-consider-challenge-to-boeing-wedgetail-for-uk/




https://www.naval-technology.com/projects/a319mpa/

Role

Maritime patrol and ASW aircraft
Manufacturer
Airbus Military
Crew
2 + 8 tactical oper./observer/ordenance
Overall Length
36m
Expand


The A319 MPA is a long range maritime patrol and ASW aircraft developed by Airbus Military. The aircraft can be deployed in anti-submarine and anti-surface warfare, intelligence, reconnaissance and surveillance missions.

The low-altitude loiter or search capability, exceeding range, endurance and fast transit speed make the A319 the best maritime patrol aircraft in its range.

A319 MPA aircraft design
The A319 MPA is a derivative of the Airbus A319 passenger aircraft. The airframe is made of corrosion resistant lightweight composite materials for lower fuel consumption.

Designed with larger access doors, the aircraft allows easier component replacement. The centralised maintenance system monitors the key aircraft components and automatically transfers anomalies to the aircraft base. The A319 MPA comes with an option for universal aerial refuelling receptacle slipway installation (UARRSI) for aerial refuelling.

The 3.7m long fuselage cross-section allows setting up of a spacious cabin housing six operator consoles, a galley, a toilet, electronic equipment racks and sonobuoy storage. The cabin has enough space to incorporate operator areas and a rest area for long endurance missions. The lower deck has been shaped to provide optimum space to house a bomb-bay and additional fuel tanks for extended range and endurance.

A319 MPA missions
The A319 MPA is equipped for classical fighting roles and new operations. In addition to maritime patrol roles, the aircraft can conduct joint operations with other units and international and coalition forces.

Flight deck
"The A319 MPA is equipped for classical fighting roles and new operations."
The flight deck is installed with six multi-functional displays. A head-up display (HUD) is also provided to increase pilot situational awareness during approach and landing operations.

The cockpit’s ergonomic design allows an unrestricted view of instruments and features two side stick controllers of the fly-by-wire system. The fly-by-wire flight control system reduces the pilot workload by providing flight envelope protection and responsive flight controls.

It also provides precise handling during turbulence. The onboard information terminal (OIT) transfers situational and sensor information to crew members. It also enhances crew coordination and mission assessment.

Weapon systems
The A319 MPA is fitted with anti-submarine and anti-surface weapon systems. The aircraft can carry a variety of weapons internally and on wing-pylons. The internal bomb-bay can house eight weapon stations for torpedoes, depth charges, mines and other ASW weaponry. Four under-wing points can hold missiles to attack naval or land-based targets.

Sensors / radars
The open architecture mission system of A319 MPA integrates a set of multi-mission sensors. The sensors coupled with modern communication systems enable the aircraft to conduct operations in a network centric operations (NCO) environment.

The complete suite of ASW sensors tracks and identifies under sea and surface targets.

The mission systems include a surveillance radar, IFF interrogator, IR/EO turret, acoustic system and magnetic anomaly detector (MAD).

Navigation and communication
The A319 MPA features fully integrated tactical system (FITS), a system successfully installed on the Airbus MPA family and on the P-3 Orion.

"The open architecture mission system of A319 MPA integrates a set of multi-mission sensors."
FITS integrates aircraft communication and datalink systems.

Six operator consoles installed in the cabin provide better situational awareness to conduct patrol and anti-submarine operations at low altitudes.

The aircraft can also be fitted with Link 11/22, Link 16, TCDL or enhanced message datalink systems to provide data, picture and video exchange with the network.

The communications equipment onboard allows dissemination of time-critical intelligence based on the information gathered and analysed during the mission.

The aircraft can be operated in a network including helicopters and unmanned platforms.

Countermeasures
The self-protection suite includes radar and missile warning systems. It is fully integrated with a decoy dispenser. The directed infrared countermeasures (DIRCM) system can be optionally fitted to protect against IR-guided missiles. An electronic support measures (ESM) system is also installed onboard.

Engine
The A319 MPA is powered by two IAE V2527M-A5 or CFM56-5B7 engines providing a thrust of 26,500lbf or 27,000lbf. The twin-turbofan configuration provides a maximum speed of Mach 0.82.

Please avoid unnecessary extra size font & use of bold drafting. Post edited.

Regards,
 
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I see ... but in either case, the PAF and PN will want to see working aircraft first, so they know for sure how the system works and that they won't be swindled into NREs. That said, the A319 might get traction if the EU pushes ahead with it as regional P-8 and Wedgetail alternatives. So a joint-order by Germany, France, Spain, Italy, etc should offer scale and, assuming there's no design creep, keep the price reasonable.
Is there Chinese option?
 
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Pakistan has seven AEW platforms operational with an eighth in repair and possibly two more in purchase. Turkey with a greater area operates only 4 AEW aircraft, Brazil only 5.
These platforms have enough airframe and sufficient radar power and upgrades available so that they can soldier on comfortable into the early 2040’s if need be. There is no requirement to keep buying AEW platforms or indulge into trillionaire fantasia when the finances of our forces are well known to be bordering on paucity.

I think this is at plan stage for P3 replacement in 5-8 years. Also, there is a need for EW aircraft, such as ELINT and SOJ for blinders and force expansion.
 
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Is there Chinese option?
The Chinese have a P-3-like turboprop-based MPA based on the Y-8.

Otherwise, there are no serviceable turbofan-based MPAs other than the P-8 and Kawasaki P-1.

The Saab Swordfish MPA based on the Bombardier Global Express is interesting, but it hasn't been made into an actual product you can test. Same for the Airbus A319 MPA.

That said, I do like the Swordfish MPA configuration because it has many of the same subsystems as the PN's ATR-72 MPAs, such as Leonardo Seaspray 7300E radar, Elettronica ESM, etc.

So Pakistan can get the subsystems, the main issue is integration costs.

If Saab and Bombardier just bite the bullet and make a working prototype of the Swordfish MPA, then I think it could be relatively promising. It still doesn't have the range or payload of the P-8, but it brings AShW, ASW and long-haul endurance.
 
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Is there Chinese option?
img-0aab3f2265fad7a56993c66d2b3b5965.jpg
 
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