Poonch uprising and reasons for Pashtun's jihad

[Jaggu]

Dogras are not Sikhs. Most of us are hindus.

The first post mentions the following:

In September 1947, in the southern Kashmir region of poonch and jammu, mobs of hindus and Sikhs, aided by maharaja’s sikh soldiers, began slaughtering muslims. Muslim sources claim 200,000 of the region’s total muslim population of 500,000 were killed and the rest drived as refugees to Pakistan.

Sadly I have read other articles repeating this same historical mistake by saying Sikhs killed people in J&K in 1947.

 

[jandk]

The first post mentions the following:

In September 1947, in the southern Kashmir region of poonch and jammu, mobs of hindus and Sikhs, aided by maharaja’s sikh soldiers, began slaughtering muslims. Muslim sources claim 200,000 of the region’s total muslim population of 500,000 were killed and the rest drived as refugees to Pakistan.

Sadly I have read other articles repeating this same historical mistake by saying Sikhs killed people in J&K in 1947.

LOL. We Dogras are not Punjabis and most of us are not Sikhs either. Don't know why people keep making these mistakes.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

@Pak-one thanks for this thread we need more and more threads abt our history.

 

[INDIC]

You are not paying attention, no source is claiming that 2.5 lakh muslims got killed in poonch alone....there were also muslims in kathua, udhampur, reasi , mirpur and jammu city...

I only doubting about the exaggerated casualties figure, I am not blindly denying the Poonch rebellion as entire India was in complete mess during partition but I still need some neutral material about it to know about it. You may also know there was also a massacre of Hindus in Mirpur later on. As for Pashtun militia, it was organized by Brigadier Akbar Khan of Pakistan army, since he was previously involved in the military action in FATA during British rule, so he easily organized a militia using his local contacts in FATA. It wasn't like that Pashtuns suddenly got urgency to invade Kashmir.

 

[jandk]

If I had my way I would send all dogras on a deserted Island.

Why?

 

[ghoul]

Afghanis had nothing to do with any of this, so please talk about the history of your own country which happens to be Afghanistan. Thank you. OP is a fa****.

On a flip side, I would like to know more about the muslims of AJK districts of Mirpur and Muzaffarabad. Like the Azad Kashmiris are generally quite warlike and fierce people. Did they resist the Dogra rule?

 

[INDIC]

Sadly I have read other articles repeating this same historical mistake by saying Sikhs killed people in J&K in 1947.

Kashmir was the part of scramble for princely states and it didn't start with Kashmir, you may know 1.5 months before invasion of Kashmir, Pakistan already messed up in Junagadh leading to Nawab fleeing to Pakistan while the Razakar movement of Hyderabad had full weapon and moral support from Pakistan to avoid Hyderabad getting integrated into India. So, you will see lots of exaggerated excuses from their side. Infact, Pakistan was eying about a dozen of Hindu majority princely states to be integrated in Pakistan and incite others not to join India as Jinnah believed stronger India was not their interest. I sometimes have a bizarre feeling when Pakistanis claim that Kashmir should have joined Pakistan because of its Muslim majority.

 

[notsuperstitious]

@Pak-one thanks for this thread.

People who deny this are not worth replying to. I came across the Poonch rebellion and the oppression that caused it when I read Sahahab Nama. Of course Qudratullah Shahab was well-suited to write about this, since he directly saw the disturbances and their results. He was an ethnic Punjabi ICS officer (family from Chamkore), he was brought up in Sri Nagar, where his father was a high-level government functionary who had served on top (governor?) in Gilgit under Raja's rule.

He was the highest placed bureaucrat in Azad Kashmir and oversaw the efforts to deal with refugees and setup of post-Raja administration.

@jandk you can not just issue statements denying that anything happened. Your having Dogra background should have nothing to do with dealing with facts of history. Dogras were the ruling class, and having a rebellion is not a complement to their governance.

By your own admission Qudratullah Shahab was a highly biased source, and IMO not worth taking seriously.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

I only doubting about the exaggerated casualties figure, I am not blindly denying the Poonch rebellion as entire India was in complete mess during partition but I still need some neutral material about it to know about it. You may also know there was also a massacre of Hindus in Mirpur later on. As for Pashtun militia, it was organized by Brigadier Akbar Khan of Pakistan army, since he was previously involved in the military action in FATA during British rule, so he easily organized a militia using his local contacts in FATA. It wasn't like that Pashtuns suddenly got urgency to invade Kashmir.

An author of book was speculating that 2 lakh also included those missing ones who sought refuge in pakistan, so may be the death toll of jammu muslims is not exactly 2 lakh but genocide did take place, it shouldnt be surprising as muslims were minority in Jammu province. When Pashtun tribesmen arrived, they didnt show mercy to hindus, poonchis also retaliated back against hindus who were previously massacring them.
And it seems that Pashtun tribesmen were also eager to go to east punjab against sikhs but Pakistani authorities prevented that. Instead they were allowed to go to Kashmir. As for as involvement of general akbar khan is concerned, pashtun tribes were under authority of political agents in FATA.......the angry pakhtun tribes wanted some action in east punajb or kashmir since august, pakistan took advantage of this sentiment and provided some organization and allowed them only to kashmir in October 1947 to aid poonch insurgents......

I welcome Indians to share their sde

The first post mentions the following:

In September 1947, in the southern Kashmir region of poonch and jammu, mobs of hindus and Sikhs, aided by maharaja’s sikh soldiers, began slaughtering muslims. Muslim sources claim 200,000 of the region’s total muslim population of 500,000 were killed and the rest drived as refugees to Pakistan.

Sadly I have read other articles repeating this same historical mistake by saying Sikhs killed people in J&K in 1947.

The first post mentions the following:

In September 1947, in the southern Kashmir region of poonch and jammu, mobs of hindus and Sikhs, aided by maharaja’s sikh soldiers, began slaughtering muslims. Muslim sources claim 200,000 of the region’s total muslim population of 500,000 were killed and the rest drived as refugees to Pakistan.

Sadly I have read other articles repeating this same historical mistake by saying Sikhs killed people in J&K in 1947.

Valid point. I am editing it.

 

[Chak Bamu]

By your own admission Qudratullah Shahab was a highly biased source, and IMO not worth taking seriously.

By your reasoning, all witnesses are biased.

Go ahead, shoot the messenger. Good strategy to fool your own self.

 

[notsuperstitious]

By your reasoning, all witnesses are biased.

Go ahead, shoot the messenger. Good strategy to fool your own self.

Not at all. Not all witnesses are biased, only the interested ones.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Not at all. Not all witnesses are biased, only the interested ones.

I take that to mean - 'All witnesses are biased except the ones with whom I can agree'

We know that there was wide-spread disturbance and killings. Can you provide a witness who could tell us (with a straight face) that nothing actually happened and that it is all just a figment of some people's imagination?

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Afghanis had nothing to do with any of this, so please talk about the history of your own country which happens to be Afghanistan. Thank you. OP is a fa****.

On a flip side, I would like to know more about the muslims of AJK districts of Mirpur and Muzaffarabad. Like the Azad Kashmiris are generally quite warlike and fierce people. Did they resist the Dogra rule?

I understand your displeasure at pashtuns role in kashmir war, many pakistanis argue that pashtuns are responsible for loss of two third kashmir by not capturing srinagar airfield at time. But still the fact remains that Pashtun tribesmen continuously fought on all fronts of kashmir, including gilgit and skardu, from October 1947 to january 1949 while pakistan army entered into the war in may 1948. Indian army was facing difficult enemy in the form of pashtun tribesmen who were using combination of conventional and guerrilla tactics were involved but indian army began to gain upper hand when Pakistan army entered into the war and took the lead role in late 1948. This writer agrees with me.

India claimed that Pakistan army was fighting to liberate Kashmir which was a white lie. Infact India gained an upper hand when Pakistan army finally invaded Kashmir. It was impossible for India to defeat the inborn tribal guerillas.
pravel writes: “The frontier tribesman was unbeatable as a guerrilla, trained as he was in th rugged , strife-torn mountains of his native land. He was bold, ruthless and willy.
It was seldom that he came out to fight battle in the open, relying mostly on ambush and sniping to wear down his advsery. In the valley lashkar was following traditional techniques, it moved in small groups by jungle paths, mostly at night.”
The Ruling Enemy - Jahangir Satti - Google Books

Keep in mind that these Pashtun tribesmen were not paid soldiers like Pakistan army and voluntarily decided to aid Kashmiris. None of these tribesmen received medals like raja mohammad sarwar , no monuments or memorials for them, no ceremonies in their memory, no mili naghmay for them......

On October general gracey, angraiz general of pak army, received order from jinnah to enter army into kashmir, your general gracey refused to do so.......this was the condition of your army, headed by an insubordinate angraiz.....in such scenario , without incursion of pashtun tribesmen , the whole azad kashmir would have been part of India.

 

[rockstarIN]

@Pak-one But there is stories of atrocities committed by these tribesmen against the population at valley who are predominantly Muslim?

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

@Pak-one But there is stories of atrocities committed by these tribesmen against the population at valley who are predominantly Muslim?

No atrocities against fellow muslims, it was propaganda by india to justify military action. One of the rumor spread at that time in the initial was that kazaks have invaded kashmir.....lot of misinformation.....Pashtuns tribesmen were invited by poonch insurgents.
India's stance was that tribals have invaded kashmir for purpose of loot, plunder and rapes, no mention of poonch uprising........the fact is In valley tribesmen were accompanied by poonch insurgents while in gilgat and skardu, tribesmen were accompanied by gilgit scouts. Kashmiris of poonch accompanied tribesmen when they were marching towards Srinagar.

While Kashmir hindu’s maharja , hari singh , hesitated on the question of accession to Pakistahnn or India, a muslim revolt erupted in poonch, western Kashmir.The Poonch rebels established a provisional government in what they called "Azad (Free') Kashmir." In October, some 2,000 to 3,000 Pathans from Pakistan's Northwest Frontier Province, crossed the border between west Pakistan and Kashmir, rallying behind the rebels. Pakistani government provided material support to poonch rebels and their Pathan allies, Who together made fast progress towards the state capital of Srinagar.With his domain on verge of collapse, hari singh signed Kashmir’s accession to India on October 26, 1947. The next day, Indian government began airlifting troops and supplies to Srinagar. In the ensuing fight , Indian army drove the insurgents out of the capital.
The Kashmir Question: Retrospect and Prospect - Professor of Political Science Sumit Ganguly, Sumit Ganguly - Google Books

Opening the war in northren Kashmir, Pakistani regulars and Pathan tribesmen seized Giligit and major Ehsan khan up the Indus valley to besiege skardu, defended by Indian colonel sher jang thapa. After holding out for six months, thapa surrendered. Futher south , the invaders failed to take Leh (12 febrauay-14august 1948)
Dictionary of Battles and Sieges: P-Z - Google Books