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POLL: Which will be more effective, "SAARC" or "Brother Nation" idea.

Which will be more effective, "SAARC" or "Brother Nation" idea.


  • Total voters
    56
P.S. Even you guys were Pakistanis before 1971.

And yes they were proud Pakistanis.

But you guys drew the first blood. You guys laid down the foundation by ill treating people and discriminating against them.

And the reality check is they are Bangladeshis today proud Bangladeshis

You have done stabbing them in the past.... What is the guarantee that you will not try on the sovereignty of Bangladesh with the concept of Brother Nations.
 
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We have a much larger population than Bangladesh and you can do some research on this, girls are not denied education in Pakistan. Girls go to school, colleges, and universities in Pakistan. There maybe some who dont, as in Bangladesh also, but most girls in Pakistan attend schools, colleges, and universities.

BTW, I dont think SAARC will work out, its another dream of some indians who want a union with all South Asian nations (another form of "akhand bharat dream"). Pakistan and Bangladesh are better off as independent sovereign nations. We can work to be independent sovereign brotherly nations as well:)

Much larger population??! Well one of the main difference factors is the huge pashtun refugee influx you have in your north western part. Most of their girls don't go to school. Oh probably they go to your camp schools. I know so many Pakistani families here, that make their daughters marry their first cousins(most of the time against their will)at the end of grade 12 and do their best to prevent them to have university education. There are exceptions but again they are exceptions. Your central law and order is not even valid in traibal parts of Balochistan and NWFP! None of these are any issue for Bangladesh and even in the extreme rural areas, girls get free education and it has been made free for them towards college level in those areas. The whole world knows the dirty cousin marriage business that goes around Mirpur, Azad Kashmir. You guys need to reflect and change your own system and then compare with Bangladesh.

SAARC was not any Indian's idea. It was Ziaur Rahman's idea, the Bangladeshi president who was probably the youngest living(when he received it) Hilal-e-Jurat recipient for his role in 1965 war and also an ex-ISI officer. He was pro-Pakistan, not pro-India. Look at EU. Germans, French, British did not enjoy better relation than India-Pakistan-Bangladesh throughout their history; their rivalry goes back to the middle ages. Yet they have come together to form the strongest political and economic union of the world. Some countries in South Asia are just too arrogant to do the same. They are not just smart enough to overcome that arrogance.
 
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And yes they were proud Pakistanis.

But you guys drew the first blood. You guys laid down the foundation by ill treating people and discriminating against them.

And the reality check is they are Bangladeshis today proud Bangladeshis

Get out of the habit of acting and talking on behalf of Bangladeshis. We can speak for ourselves and we are not to promote indo-awami aganda of promoting bitter relation with Pakistan.
 
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And yes they were proud Pakistanis.

But you guys drew the first blood. You guys laid down the foundation by ill treating people and discriminating against them.

And the reality check is they are Bangladeshis today proud Bangladeshis

You have done stabbing them in the past.... What is the guarantee that you will not try on the sovereignty of Bangladesh with the concept of Brother Nations.

Great observation. Thank you.
 
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SAARC was not any Indian's idea. It was Ziaur Rahman's idea, the Bangladeshi president who was probably the youngest living(when he received it) Hilal-e-Jurat recipient for his role in 1965 war and also an ex-ISI officer. He was pro-Pakistan, not pro-India. Look at EU. Germans, French, British did not enjoy better relation than India-Pakistan-Bangladesh throughout their history; their rivalry goes back to the middle ages. Yet they have come together to form the strongest political and economic union of the world. Some countries in South Asia are just too arrogant to do the same. They are not just smart enough to overcome that arrogance.


SAARC was not indian idea but surly hijacked by india to establish indian hegemony in the region. That's why SAARC is an ineffective organization and comparing with EU is pure naive act. As long as indian hegemonic design is alive in South asia, SAARC will just be another paper organization. Do your research and see how many times india has forced postponement of SAARC summit.
 
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Great observation. Thank you.

It is expected for SAARC that following nations would be joining SAARC in the future who have shown interests.

The People's Republic of China has shown its interest in joining SAARC.[13] While Pakistan and Bangladesh support China's candidature, India is more reluctant about the prospect of Chinese membership, while Bhutan does not even have diplomatic relations with China.[14] However, during the 2005 Dhaka summit, India agreed on granting observer status to the PRC along with Japan. During the 14th summit, Nepal along with Pakistan and Bangladesh, announced their support for the membership of China.[15][16][17] China seeks greater involvement in SAARC, however, finds it too early to apply for full membership. [18]

Indonesia intends to become an observer as well, and is supported by Sri Lanka.[19]

Iran, a state with borders to two SAARC members, has traditionally enjoyed strong cultural, economic and political relationships with Afghanistan, Pakistan, India and Bangladesh and has expressed its desire to become a member of the South Asian organization. On 22 February 2005, the Foreign Minister of Iran, Kamal Kharrazi, indicated Iran's interest in joining SAARC by saying that his country could provide the region with "East-West connectivity".[20] On 3 March 2007, Iran asked to join the SAARC as an observer. SAARC Secretary-General Lyonpo Chenkyab Dorji responded by saying that Iran's request for observer status would be taken up during a meeting of ministers of foreign affairs of SAARC member countries in the 3 April summit in New Delhi.[21][17]

Russia intends to become an observer as well, and is supported by India.[22][23]

Myanmar has expressed an interest in joining as a full member. If done so, Myanmar will become the ninth member in the group. India is currently backing Myanmar.[24][25]Burma’s military regime officially applied for full SAARC membership in May 2008. However, the application is still being considered and the government is currently restricted to observer status.[26]

South Africa has participated in meetings.[27]

With the following big economic players like Russia, China, India, South Africa it would definitely be beneficial for other nations on economic backgrounds.

Where as the nations in Brother nations idea do not have that much dominance in terms of economy because of the economic conditions of the nations involved. So if China joins then China would be the only country with the economic dominance where as SAARC would provide with much more dilution of resouces across the nations in the coming future
 
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Delhi won’t attend, so Saarc summit postponed

The 13th SAARC Summit has once again been postponed with India today conveying its inability to attend the Dhaka meet in the backdrop of serious political developments in Nepal and the deteriorating security situation in Bangladesh.

With the SAARC charter mandating the presence of all heads of government of the seven member states for a summit, India’s decision means fresh dates will now be worked out through diplomatic channels.

Foreign Secretary Shyam Saran said he had spoken to his Bangladeshi counterpart and conveyed the decision which is based on New Delhi’s independent assessment of the current situation in the neighbourhood.

The summit, Saran said, has to take place in a conducive politcal and security environment. ‘‘If you have the kind of environment...which prevails today, we genuinely believe desired outcomes are not possible. So we should wait until the time is propitious to have such an important and significant summit.’’

While he made While he made it clear the decision was not to project India’s unwillingness to share the stage with King Gyanendra, Saran said, the events in Nepal were a cause of grave concern. ‘‘The constitutional monarchy and multi-party democracy are the two pillars of political stability in Nepal. This principle has been violated.’’

The Foreign Secretary also pointed out that the security situation in Bangladesh had deteriorated following the fatal attack on former Bangladesh Finance Minister S.A.M.S Kibria. There have been reports of three explosions in the past 24 hours, one of which was apparently close to Hotel Sheraton, the venue for the summit.

Dhaka, however, has rejected this assessment and in a strong reaction stated that unprecedented security arrangements had been made for the summit. ‘‘It is ironic that India undertook to announce the decision when an Indian security assessment team was still present in Dhaka and consulting our security agencies,’’ Bangladesh Foreign Ministry said.

As for the recent political developments in the neighbourhood, Bangladesh has accused India of disregarding the SAARC Charter which states that bilateral and contentious issues will not be raised. ‘‘It is a sad commentary for South Asia that its largest member state should retract its committment to the Charter on this excuse.’’

Saran sought to downplay concerns of any ‘‘big brotherly’’ attitude, saying that India had the freedom to make its own assessments and arrive at its independent conclusions. The decision, he underlined, was not directed against any particular country.

‘‘Nobody can deny there is a serious situation prevailing in the neighbourhood. What has happened in Nepal is not an ordinary event. What has been happening in Bangladesh is not ordinary either,’’ he said. ‘‘These are objective facts...not something we have manufactured,’’ he said.

Dhaka, which was itself nervous on the prospects of the summit after the dramatic events in Nepal, was buoyed by the decision of the Nepal King on Tuesday to attend the summit. However, none of this impressed India.

This morning, PM Manmohan Singh met his predecessor A.B. Vajpayee and Leader of Opposition L.K. Advani before deciding. External Affairs Minister K. Natwar Singh also spoke to the King of Bhutan, Sri Lankan Foreign Minister and Maldives President Abdul Gayoom on the issue.


Delhi won’t attend, so Saarc summit postponed
 
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Get out of the habit of acting and talking on behalf of Bangladeshis. We can speak for ourselves and we are not to promote indo-awami aganda of promoting bitter relation with Pakistan.

Indo-Awami Agenda?

Ok who elected Awami League into the Power?

GB
 
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If you mean Biharis then you should take a geographical lesson. They are from Bihar, India.

They are not our responsibility especially the ones who were not even born before 1971.

P.S. Even you guys were Pakistanis before 1971.

You are confused about a simple yet delicate issue. Tell me what were the muslim people called, who lived in the geographic region now called Pakistan before 1947?

The region of Bangladesh before 1947 was called East Bengal and that is almost same, if not exactly the same as the definition of modern day Bangladesh. The 25 years in the middle changes nothing. My dear Omar bhai, that's not even a full generation! Biharis on the other hand were Indians as Bihar was and is an Indian state. Now the muslim Biharis migrated to "Pakistan", not East Bengal or Bangladesh. They identified themselves with your country, not ours. They pilaged and looted and raped and killed along with their bastard Pakistani soldiers during the war. They used to speak urdu, not Bengali and I am talking about the generation who were born before 1971. You are talking like as if you accepted the Biharis born before 1971 and then left their kids. Well that is historically and logically an impossible hypothesis because there has to be Biharis born before 1971 to reproduce Biharis that would have been born after 1971. They said they want to be in Pakistan. We said they are better off to Pakistan cause we ain't gonna let them go unpunished for what they had done during the 9 months war. Fact is Pakistan dumped them because it was not financially and morally able to accept them. oh how could I forget, by that time, you had 90,000 of your own already in Indian hands!

And please do not worry about the Biharis born after 71. They are as much Bangladeshi as anyone and they were registered voters in the last national election of Bangladesh and duly helped Awami League secure the highest mandate since 1970's provincial election.
 
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Roadblocks to a summit

JOHN CHERIAN

UNTIL a couple of months ago, senior officials of the External Affairs Ministry had indicated that the South Asian Association for Regional Cooperation (SAARC) summit would be held in Islamabad as scheduled. A senior official said in September that despite the tense bilateral relations, New Delhi would not like to give Islamabad an opportunity to score a point in the propaganda war. Other SAARC member-countries have not been too happy with India's attitude towards the regional economic grouping for quite some time. They see New Delhi's obduracy as the main reason for the repeated postponement of SAARC summits and the slow progress towards the goal of regional integration.

Indian officials had said that attending the summit in Islamabad would in no way indicate a mellowing of New Delhi's attitude towards Islamabad. They had pointed out that bilateral issues were never raised or discussed at SAARC summits. The focus was always on economic issues, they said. But the very fact that the Indian Prime Minister would visit Pakistan had raised hopes regarding the resumption of the dialogue process between the two belligerent neighbours, a development that the international community and India's immediate neighbours have been wanting for some time now.

The India-Pakistan impasse has been one of the major factors stalling South Asian integration. In summit after summit, other South Asian leaders have called upon New Delhi and Islamabad to resolve their disputes so that the larger goal of South Asian unity can be achieved.

In October, Defence Minister George Fernandes and Minister of State for External Affairs Digvijay Singh had also said that the Prime Minister would visit Pakistan to attend the SAARC summit.

Pakistan, which is to host the summit this year, had indicated that it would like to hold the summit in the second week of January. All SAARC members except India and Bhutan had consented to the Pakistani proposal. New Delhi seems to have had a rethink on the issue lately. Many had expected the atmosphere to thaw after both India and Pakistan withdrew their forces from the border in October. Instead, there has been a noticeable hardening in India's diplomatic posture towards Islamabad.

Both Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee and Deputy Prime Minister L.K. Advani have been sharply critical of Gen. Pervez Musharraf's policies in recent weeks, virtually ruling out high-level bilateral talks in the near future. The Bush administration, which has acquired considerable clout in New Delhi in recent times, has been urging for a resumption of the dialogue process. After the recent elections in Pakistan, U.S. support for Musharraf has further strengthened, given the impressive performance by Islamic parties. American multi-national companies also have a vested interest in the return of normalcy in the region. U.S. oil companies have long been waiting to construct an oil and gas pipeline from Turkmenistan to India. This would have to pass through Afghanistan and Pakistan.

The official reason being given for India's reluctance to participate in the SAARC summit is the lack of progress in regional economic integration. India blames Pakistan saying that it is not "serious" about regional economic integration. Pakistan fears that if it throws open its doors to Indian goods, its beleaguered economy will collapse under the pressure that would generate. The Indian side feels that Pakistan has not been too keen on the establishment of a South Asian Preferential Trade Arrangement (SAPTA) and the eventual goal of establishing a free trade area in the region. Other SAARC members, however, feel that differences over the economic agenda should not be a reason for scuttling SAARC summits. A senior-level SAARC meeting held in Kathmandu in the first week of November aimed at hammering out an agreement on SAPTA ended inconclusively.

NEW DELHI had refused to attend the SAARC summits in 2000 and 2001 as Vajpayee did not want to share a platform with Musharraf in the aftermath of the Kargil War. According to the SAARC charter, summits can be held only if there is a consensus, and all member-countries will have to participate. Indian officials have, however, kept the door open. They are waiting to see the type of government that would assume office in Islamabad. External Affairs Minister Yashwant Sinha, speaking to reporters in Phnom Penh during the recent India-ASEAN summit, said that "there was no government yet in Pakistan and we do not know who is attending the (SAARC) summit". If the new Pakistani Prime Minister is from one of the militant Islamist parties, New Delhi may keep stalling diplomatically.

Indian officials say that they are waiting to see the steps the new Pakistani government will take to curb "cross-border" terrorism. They made it clear that if somebody like the Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam's leader Maulana Fazlur Rehman is appointed the new Prime Minister, the chances of Vajpayee visiting Islamabad for the summit will diminish further. Rehman has toned down many of his hardline positions. Recently, he said that he accepted the Simla Agreement as the basis for dialogue on the Kashmir issue.

New Delhi also wants Islamabad to take steps on the issue of tariff concessions for Indian goods. It was agreed at the Kathmandu summit last year that a draft treaty framework towards the establishment of a South Asian Free Trade Area would be finalised before the end of this year.

A Pakistani Foreign Office spokesman said that progress on the economic front depended to a large extent on the resolution of political differences between the two countries. Islamabad insists that it acted "responsibly" on the issue. The spokesman said that India had tried to bring to the SAARC process extraneous bilateral elements such as Pakistan according MFN (most favoured nation) status to India. "Pakistan made a substantive offer of tariff concessions on a number of tariff lines identified by India. This offer was motivated by a genuine desire to undertake meaningful cooperation under SAARC and to ensure a successful conclusion of the SAPTA meeting. India, however, refused to present its List of Concessions to Pakistan as per the agreed agenda," the Pakistani foreign policy spokesman said in a statement.

Indian officials also point out that no specific date for next year's SAARC summit was announced at the Kathmandu summit. They say that the only understanding was that the summit would be held some time in early 2003.

Islamabad, on the other hand, has accused New Delhi of raising extraneous issues" and issuing "conflicting and misleading" statements. "India's reluctance to deal with Pakistan under the SAARC framework and its suggestion during the SAPTA meeting to handle economic cooperation issues bilaterally or under other forums is a manifestation of its desire to scuttle the SAARC process, which in any case remained suspended for close to three years due to Indian intransigence,'' the Pakistani statement said. It added that the Indian government's whimsical attitudes towards SAARC also "betray its policy to impose India's political and economic hegemony on South Asia".

The killing of two "Pakistani terrorists" by the Delhi Police in the first week of November and L.K. Advani implying that Islamabad was behind the plot, has further soured the relations (see separate story on page 45). Islamabad has reacted by characterising Advani's comments as baseless and symptomatic of "a deep malaise that afflicts the Hindu fundamentalist leadership".

AS the war of words continued, Islamabad received a diplomatic setback when the Commonwealth Foreign Ministers upheld Pakistan's suspension from the organisation. In a meeting in London in the last week of October, the Foreign Ministers said that the Pakistani government had not completed the transfer of power from military to civilian authorities despite the holding of general elections in early October. The military coup in 1999 had led to Islamabad's suspension from the Commonwealth.

Member-countries such as Australia and the United Kingdom wanted the Commonwealth to reward America's best ally in the region for the conduct of the October elections. The majority of the African countries, along with India, did not go along with this view. "The benchmark for Pakistan is the restoration of democracy. No government is in place. We don't know how many of the executive powers held by the President are going to be transferred to the elected Parliament," said Mompati Merafhe, the Foreign Minister of Botswana and the Chairman of the eight-member Commonwealth Ministerial Action Group (CMAG).

The Ministers agreed that Pakistan should remain suspended until they had a clearer picture of "the role and functioning of the democratic institutions". Commonwealth observers had only given qualified approval to the October elections, declaring the voting on election day as "credible" while describing the overall process as "unfair". Yashwant Sinha said in London that despite the "referendum" and the "elections", Pakistan did not fulfil the conditions necessary for revoking its suspension from the Commonwealth.

Roadblocks to a summit
 
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Get out of the habit of acting and talking on behalf of Bangladeshis. We can speak for ourselves and we are not to promote indo-awami aganda of promoting bitter relation with Pakistan.

No one is talking on the behalf Bangladesh. What I am talking about the Indian perception of Bangladesh.

And forget about the Indo-Awami agenda which come up with in every thread. If you feel them to be Indian stooges then you can very well impeach them out of power.

We never had any problems with your relations with Pakistan. Why would India have problem with it till it comes over to problem for India. You can very well co-operate with Pakistan for economic growth.

But India would like to see a prosperous Bangladesh in the neighbor rather than a state which is not too good state right now in failed state index. Chaos in Bangladesh impacts India being the neighbor. And SAARC lays down foundation for all of us over the same concepts. It has nothing to do with military. Bangladesh and Pakistan are as great partners as India and their opinions are as important as that of Indians.

If you are unsatisfied with the government impeach them out of power.
 
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I'm 100% sure that gromell is not really a Bangladeshi, well not a Muslim Bangladeshi for sure. Any Bangladeshi Muslim who read his previous posts would agree with me.
 
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No one is talking on the behalf Bangladesh. What I am talking about the Indian perception of Bangladesh.

And forget about the Indo-Awami agenda which come up with in every thread. If you feel them to be Indian stooges then you can very well impeach them out of power.

We never had any problems with your relations with Pakistan. Why would India have problem with it till it comes over to problem for India. You can very well co-operate with Pakistan for economic growth.

But India would like to see a prosperous Bangladesh in the neighbor rather than a state which is not too good state right now in failed state index. Chaos in Bangladesh impacts India being the neighbor. And SAARC lays down foundation for all of us over the same concepts. It has nothing to do with military. Bangladesh and Pakistan are as great partners as India and their opinions are as important as that of Indians.

If you are unsatisfied with the government impeach them out of power.

cut the bull crap and take it somewhere else. We know what india is upto.
 
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On free trade, it’s Indian pot calling Saarc kettle black

C. Raja Mohan

NEW DELHI, November 9 In a preview of his approach to the 13th Saarc summit, Prime Minister Singh said today the region must work together to deal with the challenges of terrorism, poverty alleviation and natural disasters.

Delivering the P N Haksar memorial lecture in Chandigarh, Singh said a “perspective of interdependency” must guide the region’s fight against terrorism and poverty. But Singh’s interlocutors in Dhaka might be less receptive to exhortations than the immediate trade concessions that India is prepared to offer.

For all the sense of despair in the South Block at the slow pace of SAARC, India rarely looks into the mirror. While Pakistan and Bangladesh have been cussed on regional economic integration, India must take much of the blame for failing to lead. Despite a market that dwarfs all others in the region, India has not chosen to leverage its size to facilitate greater trade flows within the region. While other regional leaders like Brazil have made a deliberate political decision to provide market access to smaller neighbours and generate trade surpluses in their favour, India has chosen to look the other way. Bangladesh faces the brunt of India’s double standards—out of the official two way trade of nearly a billion U.S. dollars only about 100 mn are Bangla exports to India. When unofficial trade is considered, the gap will be much larger.

Whenever India talks of free trade, its neighbours snigger—friends quietly and others loudly—and point to Delhi’s double standards on trade.

In the multilateral forums including the World Trade Organisation, India thunders against the protectionism of the advanced countries. And in the region, it’s economy is the most protected.

Within the region, India is also the worst offender on non-tariff barriers. Every slogan India mouths against the West in WTO can be thrown back at her with equal veracity at SAARC.

Unlike his previous governments in Delhi, Singh has recognised the hypocrisy of the Indian position as well as India’s own long-term interest in offering market access to neighbours.

Addressing the Trade and Economic Relations Committee in the capital last month, Singh underlined India’s need for a “proactive” and “accommodative policy on regional trade. “Our neighbours must acquire a greater stake in our economic growth by benefiting from it. India must be willing to import more from our neighbours, especially the less-developed economies”, Singh said in a major departure from the traditional policy on regional trade.

Reflecting this new approach from Singh, the government has decided to adopt a more positive approach in resolving the current problems which are holding up the negotiations on the South Asian Free Trade Area at Dhaka.

While the Foreign Office sees the importance of trade as strategy in the Subcontinent, there is resistance across the board from various ministries—from textiles to agriculture—on opening India’s market to the neighbours.

On free trade, it’s Indian pot calling Saarc kettle black
 
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