Poland says cannot accept migrants under EU quotas after Paris attacks

[flamer84]

lol what?

How the hell Turkey's GDP lost around $100 billion in total output in last two years when there was a positive growth in Turkish economy?

Turkey was $800 billion+ economy in the start of 2015...and it has been growing around 3%,4%...so how the hell it is projected to have a $722b economy by the end of this year?

Romania's economy lost 25 billion,Poland some 60 billion.Answer....our (Turkey's to) national currencies devaluated towards the dollar.It was a wide trend throughout Eastern Europe.

Turkish lira dropped because of insecurities around the elections.

It happened all over EE.

 

[AUz]

Turkish lira dropped because of insecurities around the elections.

I know.

But how the hell Turkey went from $800b economy to $722b economy within a year...and that too, when overall GDP grew at 3%,4% rate?

GDP of country isn't based solely on exchange rates you know. In global markets, exchange rates change every second (literally!)...

IMF website is being stupid. Its a type/error.

 

[flamer84]

IMF website is being stupid. Its a type/error.

Look at the other economies,it's the same.

 

[Audio]

I know.

But how the hell Turkey went from $800b economy to $722b economy within a year...and that too, when overall GDP grew at 3%,4% rate?

GDP of country isn't based solely on exchange rates you know. In global markets, exchange rates change every second (literally!)...

IMF website is being stupid. Its a type/error.

GDP in dollar terms shrunk 2.8% as the lira slumped 9% against the greenback in 2014.

Turkey’s 2014 GDP Below Official Expectations - WSJ

 

[-SINAN-]

KCK official says PKK not responsible for murders of 2 Turkish policemen

?

Check the date, they disowned assault after one week.

The day PKK killed those police, they owned the assault and gave a statement to ANF (media close to PKK).

Said the attack was done by "Apocu Fedai" team.
Şanlıurfa'da 2 Polisin Şehit Edildiği Saldırıyı PKK Üstlendi

Everybody Turks, Kurds condemned them (as they broke cease fire) so, 1 week later they disowned the attack and ANF removed the news from their website....

Doesn't make sense dude, they had all to gain just by going along with status quo, ie Kurdish party result at the elections. While Erdogan had all to loose.

There are lot's of things that doesn't makes a sense in PKK - Turkish Armed Forces conflict.

Like between 1993 - 1995 there was a general named Osman Pamukoğlu in the region.

He is known for his achievements on the operations against the PKK between 1993 and 1995, as the commander of Hakkari Mountain and Commando Brigade. He holds the title of being the only general in the Turkish Army honored with 5 medals of "Establishment of Superior Troops". He also received two medals of High Courage and Sacrifice and other less significant awards during his service. He killed 6000 - 6500 terrorists in two years. Commandeered more than 30 cross border operations. PKK decleared ceasefire and gone into stalemate. Their militants left Turkey....PKK was on the edge of utter destruction.

So, what did Armed forces ? They shipped Osman Pamukoğlu to Cyprus !!! Over years PKK regained it's strength... Does it makes any sense ?

------------------------------------------------------------------

Other than that Ocalan (Jailed former leader of PKK) called PKK to drop their arms.
HDP Kurdish party, called them to cease their operations and leave the Turkey. They said "We pass the %10 trees-hold and entered the parliament, now we are going to struggle in the parliament with democracy"..

And PKK attacked Turkey....IMO, PKK doesn't wanted to lose it's importance and wanted to leave the scene all to HDP.

But that's only my guess, this issue is so complicated games in games, plans in plans.....who knows the real reason....

As for the rest, was not my intention to bad mouth Turkey, also was aware of the appliances/electronics industry @xenon54 mentioned.
Auz is giving you superhuman abilities, while it may soothe your ego, it's not very objective and since it has to do with the place where i live in among other things i reserve the right to comment.
Like i said above in a previous post, there is no doubt a role for Turkey in Europe if it will so choose itself, however you are no faultless saviour that comes on a white horse. That's just.....

My gut feeling tells me AUz has some defamation agenda, saying how Turkey is indespensable to EU, naturally provoking negative replies from Europeans which may or may not contain terms derogatory to Turkey which would then serve his little agenda of pulling you to Islamic sphere to strengthen Pakistan and "Ummah".

I don't know why people comparing us to Poland, Romania.... I would compare us with Germany, UK, France.... we are very behind them be it in economics, democracy, life standarts, etc... See our mistakes, weak points and work hard to catch them. There is no point to compare us to lesser developed countries and say "Hey, we are better than them.... we are doing good "

I know.

But how the hell Turkey went from $800b economy to $722b economy within a year...and that too, when overall GDP grew at 3%,4% rate?

GDP of country isn't based solely on exchange rates you know. In global markets, exchange rates change every second (literally!)...

IMF website is being stupid. Its a type/error.

Lira lost value against Dollar in the last year.

 

[proka89]

The Latest: UNHCR says Macedonia only accepting Afghans, Syrians, Iraqis crossing from Greece

The United Nations refugee agency says Macedonia has begun allowing only people from Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan to cross its southern border from Greece, while Greek authorities say migrants of other nationalities are gathering on the Greek side of the border and blocking the crossing completely.

Aleksandra Kraus, UNHCR spokeswoman in Macedonia, said Thursday that Macedonian authorities had begun allowing only people from war zones to enter the country because Serbian authorities had imposed the same criteria on those attempting to cross the Macedonian-Serbian border.

In the Greek border area of Idomeni, police said the border has essentially been shut to all since about 8 a.m. (0600 GMT) after a group of roughly 300 people, mostly from Iran, gathered at the crossing seeking also to be allowed through. A further 2,500 people are waiting in a camp set up nearby to provide shelter for those heading north through the Balkans.

The Latest: UNHCR says Macedonia only accepting Afghans, Syrians, Iraqis crossing from Greece | Fox News

First Slovenia decided to allow only people from the war zones to enter the country, and after them Croatia, Serbia and now Macedonia did the same.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/11/19/world/europe/ap-eu-europe-migrants-the-latest.html?_r=0

 

[xenon54 out]

KCK official says PKK not responsible for murders of 2 Turkish policemen

?

Doesn't make sense dude, they had all to gain just by going along with status quo, ie Kurdish party result at the elections. While Erdogan had all to loose.

Thats exactly the point, HDP being in parliament and speaking for Kurds means the weakening of pkk in some way, even thought HDP and pkk might be sympathetic to eachother a Kurdish party that represents the voice of Kurds makes pkk redundant which is already considered a terrorist group.

To put it simply, pkk's biggest argument since its creation is that its representing the only force that is speaking for Kurds so HDP being in parliament makes pkk to look like they are using violance for no reason.

Its not the first time that there is a rift between various Kurdish fractions even thought almost all of them having the same goal such as pkk vs. KDP or pkk vs. Kurdish hezbollah.

 

[Audio]

Check the date, they disowned assault after one week.

The day PKK killed those police, they owned the assault and gave a statement to ANF (media close to PKK).

Said the attack was done by "Apocu Fedai" team.
Şanlıurfa'da 2 Polisin Şehit Edildiği Saldırıyı PKK Üstlendi

Everybody Turks, Kurds condemned them (as they broke cease fire) so, 1 week later they disowned the attack and ANF removed the news from their website....



There are lot's of things that doesn't makes a sense in PKK - Turkish Armed Forces conflict.

Like between 1993 - 1995 there was a general named Osman Pamukoğlu in the region.

He is known for his achievements on the operations against the PKK between 1993 and 1995, as the commander of Hakkari Mountain and Commando Brigade. He holds the title of being the only general in the Turkish Army honored with 5 medals of "Establishment of Superior Troops". He also received two medals of High Courage and Sacrifice and other less significant awards during his service. He killed 6000 - 6500 terrorists in two years. Commandeered more than 30 cross border operations. PKK decleared ceasefire and gone into stalemate. Their militants left Turkey....PKK was on the edge of utter destruction.

So, what did Armed forces ? They shipped Osman Pamukoğlu to Cyprus !!! Over years PKK regained it's strength... Does it makes any sense ?

------------------------------------------------------------------

Other than that Ocalan (Jailed former leader of PKK) called PKK to drop their arms.
HDP Kurdish party, called them to cease their operations and leave the Turkey. They said "We pass the %10 trees-hold and entered the parliament, now we are going to struggle in the parliament with democracy"..

And PKK attacked Turkey....IMO, PKK doesn't wanted to lose it's importance and wanted to leave the scene all to HDP.

But that's only my guess, this issue is so complicated games in games, plans in plans.....who knows the real reason....



I don't know why people comparing us to Poland, Romania.... I would compare us with Germany, UK, France.... we are very behind them be it in economics, democracy, life standarts, etc... See our mistakes, weak points and work hard to catch them. There is no point to compare us to lesser developed countries and say "Hey, we are better than them.... we are doing good "

Lira lost value against Dollar in the last year.

Will write a reply to this during the weekend, no time now.
Rule of thumb will be, as is always, when in doubt (as you yourself have mentioned we cannot know all the backroom deals) who profits the most from the turn of events.

 

[-SINAN-]

Will write a reply to this during the weekend, no time now.
Rule of thumb will be, as is always, when in doubt (as you yourself have mentioned we cannot know all the backroom deals) who profits the most from the turn of events.

Mate, i have the disagree with you...You are thinking to logical. Don't forget we are humans, we are not perfect...you have take in the "human nature" into account.

Let me give you an example;

MHP , Nationalist Movement Party of Turkey. They have a leader named Devlet Bahçeli . He is the leader of the MHP since 1997. And since 2002 he lost 14 elections against AKP. In the last election his parties votes dropped from %18 to %12. His Parliamenter number dropped from 80 to 42.

Common sense says, he is not a good leader and politician, he should resign and give his seat to another more able person in MHP, right ?

But he said 2-3 days ago.... "I ask you, what did i wrong. Our votes may get dropped but let's stand tall" and he said that he is not gonna resing. I mean if you wanna stand tall, go and stand in your house. A political party's goal is to get the government. But his goal seems like to stay as the leader of the MHP, he doesn't care if MHP loses all the elections.

When you take consider the "human nature" into account...you can't always predict the outcome.

 

[Audio]

Mate, i have the disagree with you...You are thinking to logical. Don't forget we are humans, we are not perfect...you have take in the "human nature" into account.

Let me give you an example;

MHP , Nationalist Movement Party of Turkey. They have a leader named Devlet Bahçeli . He is the leader of the MHP since 1997. And since 2002 he lost 14 elections against AKP. In the last election his parties votes dropped from %18 to %12. His Parliamenter number dropped from 80 to 42.

Common sense says, he is not a good leader and politician, he should resign and give his seat to another more able person in MHP, right ?

But he said 2-3 days ago.... "I ask you, what did i wrong. Our votes may get dropped but let's stand tall" and he said that he is not gonna resing. I mean if you wanna stand tall, go and stand in your house. A political party's goal is to get the government. But his goal seems like to stay as the leader of the MHP, he doesn't care if MHP loses all the elections.

When you take consider the "human nature" into account...you can't always predict the outcome.

Not pretending to be an expert on Turkey, however i do have some observations:

- Kurds resent Turks for not helping in Kobane more
- Turks do this for their own reasons/interests
- When Suruc bombings come and statements from the chairman of HDP, iirc it was "that attack would not be possible without gross negligence or complicity of the state" it even fuels the fire more
- The attacks on two policemen occur as a response from the more militantly oriented Kurdish wing, ie PKK.
- After, it is only a matter of time (with help of regime friendly press) before the new voters of HDP jump ship to AKP or any other minor party, more or less irelevant, as long as they ditch HDP, objective is achieved.
- Due to conditions in the country, no party can forma coalition, prompting 2nd run of parliamentary elections, with voters leeched from HDP and others he gets the necessary amount of votes needed for his objective, presidency with expanded powers.

So, in above paragraph, the breaking point event is the Suruc bombings, that's the event that broke the status quo which was going along the lines of "government in Turkey forming with no input of AKP and only ceremonial status presidency for Erdogan himself".

Now, as we see how the events have unfolded, it's pretty clear the winner is Erdogan.
If AKP was only partially complicit in the bombing (no secret Turkey helps people who, the second they cros the border become ISIL footsoldiers) or complicit to a greater degree as one would observe from the HDP chairman's words (implication that ISIL was let through on purpose comes very quickly after the assumptions the attacks could not have been possible without Turkish state actions or inactions)

 

[Audio]

@Sinan

I assume you did not answer above because you thought i'm probably going batshit insane, trying to connect Turkey's bomb blasts to manipulating the elections.

Well, here's more supposed evidence of cooperation:

In the wake of the raid that killed Abu Sayyaf, suspicions of an undeclared alliance have hardened. One senior western official familiar with the intelligence gathered at the slain leader’s compound said that direct dealings between Turkish officials and ranking Isis members was now “undeniable”.

“There are hundreds of flash drives and documents that were seized there,” the official told the Observer. “They are being analysed at the moment, but the links are already so clear that they could end up having profound policy implications for the relationship between us and Ankara.”

Turkey sends in jets as Syria’s agony spills over every border | World news | The Guardian

Now, seeing these ties and knowing Turkey acted as a training and rearmnament camp for all sorts of people (out of it's own interests (weakening of Kurds) and at the urging of it's allies, US, GCC, EU), would it be really to hard to imagine Erdogan has some leverage over some group? And which he used by employing them in a bomb attack for which he figured he can spin the aftermath to his benefit?

For me, it's not so hard to believe, as it's a classic 1 stroke 2 hit move, decapitating Kurdish aspirations and solidifying his own position.

More here

Report: More than 100,000 fake Turkish passports given to ISIL

though 50.000 Uyghur's crossing to ISIS seems a bit far fetched.

 

[-SINAN-]

Not pretending to be an expert on Turkey, however i do have some observations:

- Kurds resent Turks for not helping in Kobane more
- Turks do this for their own reasons/interests
- When Suruc bombings come and statements from the chairman of HDP, iirc it was "that attack would not be possible without gross negligence or complicity of the state" it even fuels the fire more
- The attacks on two policemen occur as a response from the more militantly oriented Kurdish wing, ie PKK.
- After, it is only a matter of time (with help of regime friendly press) before the new voters of HDP jump ship to AKP or any other minor party, more or less irelevant, as long as they ditch HDP, objective is achieved.
- Due to conditions in the country, no party can forma coalition, prompting 2nd run of parliamentary elections, with voters leeched from HDP and others he gets the necessary amount of votes needed for his objective, presidency with expanded powers.

So, in above paragraph, the breaking point event is the Suruc bombings, that's the event that broke the status quo which was going along the lines of "government in Turkey forming with no input of AKP and only ceremonial status presidency for Erdogan himself".

Now, as we see how the events have unfolded, it's pretty clear the winner is Erdogan.
If AKP was only partially complicit in the bombing (no secret Turkey helps people who, the second they cros the border become ISIL footsoldiers) or complicit to a greater degree as one would observe from the HDP chairman's words (implication that ISIL was let through on purpose comes very quickly after the assumptions the attacks could not have been possible without Turkish state actions or inactions)

@Sinan

I assume you did not answer above because you thought i'm probably going batshit insane, trying to connect Turkey's bomb blasts to manipulating the elections.

Well, here's more supposed evidence of cooperation:



Turkey sends in jets as Syria’s agony spills over every border | World news | The Guardian

Now, seeing these ties and knowing Turkey acted as a training and rearmnament camp for all sorts of people (out of it's own interests (weakening of Kurds) and at the urging of it's allies, US, GCC, EU), would it be really to hard to imagine Erdogan has some leverage over some group? And which he used by employing them in a bomb attack for which he figured he can spin the aftermath to his benefit?

For me, it's not so hard to believe, as it's a classic 1 stroke 2 hit move, decapitating Kurdish aspirations and solidifying his own position.

I was very busy in the weekend. Pretty much busy today too...i will read, digest in the evening.

I read....Bomb blast / PKK attacking Turkish army...have a very little percentage in the AKP's surge of votes. I explained the surge of AKP's votes in many threads..

AKP gained votes from HDP and more over from MHP.

From HDP,

- AKP has set an own rule in the previous elections. "If you had been in the parliament for 3 terms, you can't get in for the 4th term" for it's paliamenters. Many renowned parliamenters from AKP couldn't be canditates from AKP in the elections..This was the main reason of drop in votes. They changed it for the last elections.
- AKP was neglecting powerful clans in the east. Erdoğan arranged a meeting and bring the heads of the most crowded clan leaders to palace. We don't know what he said/promised but it worked.

Main reasons are these, also there are economical and security reasons. Along with other reasons. (votes swayed from MHP which makes the bulk of AKP's surge of votes).