Plot to kill Modi and many BJP leaders

[Joe Shearer]

I have been reading about propaganda tools, and recruitment procedure by LeT and other organizations.
They do use these tactics. Aren't they ?

Also, internet has become an internet tool for these organizations to spread wrong information and such incidents with misinformation added turning into propaganda material make thing worse.

I really don't want to take that line of discussion further, because I can see the possible ramifications. The same Internet has created a whole contingent of unintelligent, non-comprehending mechanical followers of bigotry of the kind opposed to the LeT. Do you wish to suggest that both be allowed to grow, or that both should be severely discouraged?

There was a large pack of people - 23 of them - who simply could not discriminate between the outright shooting of unarmed citizens and foreigners held in custody and deaths occurring in gun battles between armed criminals of terrorists and police opposing them.

On another front, these same people are unable to understand that even terrorists have the right of protection under the Indian constitution, and the protection of the indian legal system. They did not wish to accept that, and were stuck on the brutal proposition either that the company of terrorists was sufficient grounds for murder along with the terrorists, or that hearsay evidence of terrorism was sufficient evidence of guilt. There was, of course, no room for considering that in the group of four, not all had equal complicity, nor was there room for accepting that all four were still subject to the provisions of the law. Our law, under which we pride ourselves in our democratic dispensation.

There are two ways to read your point and interpret it.

If the LeT find use of this incident in proclaiming that innocent Muslims are killed illegally in India, and if that is against our interest, what should ensue? Should we enter into a nation-wide conspiracy to ensure that all such deaths are justified, if necessary by concocting evidence, to stop the LeT propaganda before it even starts? Or should we ensure that these criminal acts do not occur, and when they occur, to ensure that the criminals involved are hunted down and punished?

It is your moral dilemma. I have made my choice and have a clear conscience.

I am sorry, @KRAIT, but we are starkly opposed on this, and your subsequent posts, especially #746, show very clearly that you have taken sides. It is sad to see you in the camp of the bigots, but if that is your choice, so be it.

 

[Omtatsat]

I really don't want to take that line of discussion further, because I can see the possible ramifications. The same Internet has created a whole contingent of unintelligent, non-comprehending mechanical followers of bigotry of the kind opposed to the LeT. Do you wish to suggest that both be allowed to grow, or that both should be severely discouraged?

There was a large pack of people - 23 of them - who simply could not discriminate between the outright shooting of unarmed citizens and foreigners held in custody and deaths occurring in gun battles between armed criminals of terrorists and police opposing them.

On another front, these same people are unable to understand that even terrorists have the right of protection under the Indian constitution, and the protection of the indian legal system. They did not wish to accept that, and were stuck on the brutal proposition either that the company of terrorists was sufficient grounds for murder along with the terrorists, or that hearsay evidence of terrorism was sufficient evidence of guilt. There was, of course, no room for considering that in the group of four, not all had equal complicity, nor was there room for accepting that all four were still subject to the provisions of the law. Our law, under which we pride ourselves in our democratic dispensation.

There are two ways to read your point and interpret it.

If the LeT find use of this incident in proclaiming that innocent Muslims are killed illegally in India, and if that is against our interest, what should ensue? Should we enter into a nation-wide conspiracy to ensure that all such deaths are justified, if necessary by concocting evidence, to stop the LeT propaganda before it even starts? Or should we ensure that these criminal acts do not occur, and when they occur, to ensure that the criminals involved are hunted down and punished?

It is your moral dilemma. I have made my choice and have a clear conscience.

Ah!! The great Bong liberal intellectual is back with his sermons. Now he will sweep the floor with the rest of us intellectually challenged uncouth masses.

 

[Vinod2070]

It is sad to see you in the camp of the bigots

And anyone who has a different viewpoint would fall in that camp?

That is what real bigotry is.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Hearsay is inadmissible evidence under Indian Law. In a way it is good that this has come out for it is now clear that CBI has reached its limits and has nothing more to go on. The charge sheet will be thrown out in the court on the first day as no mens rea is revealed. CBI cannot reveal the Mens rea because then it will have to say that the killed were terrorists. The whole episode is good for Modi - Hindus will support him for getting terrorists killed, but the courts cannot touch him

Hilarious.

The obvious flaw in this argument is not apparent because the person arguing it is blinded by his predisposition towards distorting the law the way his prejudices take him.

So much for our briefless barristers. There is a pun involved which is quite apposite.

Over a million Indians in the riots during the Partition. Of course before the Pakistanis jump, I am including their side on the tally as well.

Mistaken, half-baked information. Gandhi opposed partition.

 

[Omtatsat]

Hilarious.

The obvious flaw in this argument is not apparent because the person arguing it is blinded by his predisposition towards distorting the law the way his prejudices take him.

So much for our briefless barristers. There is a pun involved which is quite apposite.

Of course, we must defer to the pronouncements of the great Bong liberal intellectual!

 

[Joe Shearer]

Ah!! The great Bong liberal intellectual is back with his sermons. Now he will sweep the floor with the rest of us intellectually challenged uncouth masses.

And why would I want to dirty the floor?

 

[Omtatsat]

And why would I want to dirty the floor?

Because it gives you great pleasure, nay...almost an orgasm.. to contrast your great deracinated liberal intellect against us country bumpkins.

 

[Joe Shearer]

And anyone who has a different viewpoint would fall in that camp?

That is what real bigotry is.

You are back again, @Vinod2070?

No, it is not that anybody who has a different viewpoint would fall in that camp. @KRAIT has started by trying to show that prosecuting the criminals who committed murder, not this one alone but others before, will weaken us by strengthening the LeT propaganda. He does not want to look at the possibility that exposing crimes and building a transparent society will unify us far more permanently and seamlessly than by playing obvious games and crudely falsifying evidence.

The second is his acceptance of the fundamental, even fundamentalist viewpoint, a majoritarian, anti-democratic viewpoint that might is right, the rule of law does not matter, expediency is everything, and that killing people and sidestepping the judicial system is all right.

It is not an arbitrary evaluation, Vinod, just that I saw what was opening up, you didn't. Don't blame me because you cannot see through a deliberate smokescreen.

 

[doppelganger]

Mistaken, half-baked information. Gandhi opposed partition.

Which points to monumental failure when it really counted.

Independence was going to come with or without Gandhi. There was no way a war weary and battered England was going to stand up against the British Indian Army (NOT the INA) post the great war. It was a matter of time and saving face. And exacting their pound of flesh as the wheels of the Great Game already started turning, while they exited.

So what exactly did Gandhi do? And why exactly was Godse the evil one for killing him?

 

[Joe Shearer]

Because it gives you great pleasure, nay...almost an orgasm.. to contrast your great deracinated liberal intellect against us country bumpkins.

Dealing with low-life gives nobody, least of all me, any pleasure. A country bumpkin is clean, positive next to you. You stink.

 

[KRAIT]

@Joe Shearer I don't take side of Modi but I do coz of some reason.
I am against character assassination and using one particular case for political agenda and Misuse of Govt. Body.

You say, even terrorists have right to stand trial. I ask, doesn't other Indians require same importance from GoI and govt. bodies to provide them justice,

Look at this whole episode. Is Congress or the ruling party at all worried about other issues. Where are rape issues in Delhi ? Where is the discussion on Lakhs of Crores of Corruption ?

If you talk bout India, you should think about Entire India.

Problem in this entire issue, entire media has created so much confusion and fuss that people are forgetting other issues that are also more pertinent.

I picked one side coz I like to see people talking about one man while forgetting everything else. And to be honest, I like to bash them coz they is no point in making them hear the scream of women of Delhi, or hundreds of people dying due to administrative failures of Uttarakhand govt.

Sir, I ask you one thing, when one child dies of hunger in a state other than Gujarat, or a DSP killed in UP, why don't they tickle the Moral Compass of The Human Rights Flag Bearers ?

For me, Modi can go to jail or whatever, but I am sick of this pathetic Politics and so called human rights activists.

P.S. Don't judge me or call me a Bigot, cause Sir, you really don't know me.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Which points to monumental failure when it really counted.

Independence was going to come with or without Gandhi. There was no way a war weary and battered England was going to stand up against the British Indian Army (NOT the INA) post the great war. It was a matter of time and saving face. And exacting their pound of flesh as the wheels of the Great Game already started turning, while they exited.

So what exactly did Gandhi do? And why exactly was Godse the evil one for killing him?

You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

You started with a mistaken proposition; when challenged and refuted, you now want to know if the opposite will not help your case.

Whatever the biggest reason that the British had for finally leaving, and there were half a dozen good reasons, not one silver bullet as you seem to imagine, it still is not Gandhi's doing that millions died, as you started by saying. You should have the humility first to acknowledge that your facts were wrong, hence your conclusions were wrong.

Coming to your two latest questions, what did Gandhi do and why should Godse not have killed him, that does not need much consideration.

Gandhi created a new paradigm of protest and activism against oppression which has served, and continues to serve the world. You cannot us your schoolboy logic to wave him out of the pages of history.

Godse committed a murder. You cannot justify murder by any sophisticated reasoning.

 

[Omtatsat]

Dealing with low-life gives nobody, least of all me, any pleasure. A country bumpkin is clean, positive next to you. You stink.

Oh yes it does...come on ...admit it.... you wear your fake intellect on your sleeves and despair if one fails to notice it.... However, I have a fairly good idea of what you actually are. Not an army chap for sure..

 

[KRAIT]

@Joe Shearer Sir, you took it wrong. I said that political divide and politicizing it, so much publicity to this case, will make things easier for Propagandist.

I mean they can easily say, "Hey, even India's CBI says that it was an execution of an innocent girl. So join LeT" (I mean, not exactly, but hope you get my point)

And given past image pasted by LeT about Modi and Muslims, it would be easier for them to recruit.

So, you misunderstood my post. Totally on tangent on what I meant.

 

[Joe Shearer]

@Joe Shearer I don't take side of Modi but I do coz of some reason.
I am against character assassination and using one particular case for political agenda and Misuse of Govt. Body.

You say, even terrorists have right to stand trial. I ask, doesn't other Indians require same importance from GoI and govt. bodies to provide them justice,

Look at this whole episode. Is Congress or the ruling party at all worried about other issues. Where are rape issues in Delhi ? Where is the discussion on Lakhs of Crores of Corruption ?

If you talk bout India, you should think about Entire India.

Problem in this entire issue, entire media has created so much confusion and fuss that people are forgetting other issues that are also more pertinent.

I picked one side coz I like to see people talking about one man while forgetting everything else. And to be honest, I like to bash them coz they is no point in making them hear the scream of women of Delhi, or hundreds of people dying due to administrative failures of Uttarakhand govt.

Sir, I ask you one thing, when one child dies of hunger in a state other than Gujarat, or a DSP killed in UP, why don't they tickle the Moral Compass of The Human Rights Flag Bearers ?

For me, Modi can go to jail or whatever, but I am sick of this pathetic Politics and so called human rights activists.

P.S. Don't judge me or call me a Bigot, cause Sir, you really don't know me.

I don't need to really know you, @KRAIT, I only need to know your published views. You might be a very pleasant person in real life. We are not concerned with that, we are concerned with what you stand for here. And that as of now is loyalty to a maimed cause, morally bankrupt, and not in the least justified by using the jaded old tu quoque argument.

Oh yes it does...come on ...admit it.... you wear your fake intellect on your sleeves and despair if one fails to notice it.... However, I have a fairly good idea of what you actually are. Not an army chap for sure..

In that case, not much cause for despair. I've been noticed quite a lot, much, much more than you are likely to be.

You have returned to my background. What do you in real life?