Please help identify these two Pakistani ribbons

[Lukasz G]

Hello everybody,

This is my first post on this forum. I am really glad I have found this forum. I hope somebody here will be able to assist me. I am not sure if this is the correct section for my question, so excuse me if it is not.

I am a medal researcher from Poland. I am also the author of a website dedicated to ribbons of world orders and medals. The Pakistani section was one of the first I made and now I am working on a substantial update to it. You are welcome to visit my website at medals.pl.

Please help me identify the medals represented by these two ribbon bars. The photos I have suggest they must have been established before 2008.

medals.pl/pk/r/pk_unknown1.gif
medals.pl/pk/r/pk_unknown2.gif

(sorry I cannot embed the images - linking is allowed after 15 posts only).

Below are the photos of Gen. Musharraf, Gen. Kayani and still another general, all wearing these ribbons. Please note the position of the ribbons. On Musharraf's uniform, the first ribbon is placed between the 30 and 40 years of service medals, which can be some hint (a medal for 35 years of service ???). The other ribbon is the last Pakistani one, which would suggest either a new commemorative/jubilee medal or a fairly low decoration (shooting medal ?). Note a device which looks like MID badge on Gen. Musharraf's and Gen. Kayani's ribbons.

medals.pl/other/Musharraf.jpg

medals.pl/other/Kayani.jpg

medals.pl/other/Pakistani.jpg

I will owe you a lot for indentification. If you are able to provide the images of the medals, I will be more than happy

Best regards,
Lukasz

 

[PAFAce]

Hello Lukasz,

I have forwarded your request to some of the Army personnel on this forum. Hopefully they will reply to you soon.

I was just curious. Are you aware of the historic connection between the Polish and Pakistani Armed Forces? Poles have fought alongside Pakistan in battles for Pakistani sovereignty. Władysław Turowicz was a Pole who served in the Pakistan Air Force as a fighter pilot, and flew in the 1965 war. He was accompanied by around 30 more Poles who came to Pakistan to help establish the Pakistan Air Force soon after Pakistan's creation. He also helped us establish our space program. It would be interesting to hear if you have anything to share with us related to this.

Thanks.

 

[Windjammer]

As "PAF Ace", points out here is something to rejoice.

 

[TaimiKhan]

The first ribbon is not an old one, recent it seems, most probably came in the last 3 years or so, as in the old pictures of Musharaf or any other general, the first ribbon wasn't there to be seen, but after 2006 or 2007.

Other thing i noticed, the first ribbon is being worn by generals who all are at some senior position. Musharaf wearing it as COAS, Kiyani wearing as COAS and Gen Ehsan wearing when he was CJCSC. But again in the older pictures of Musharaf as COAS, this ribbon is missing.

I have msged Xeric, he may give us an insight as he has link to armed forces.

 

[Xeric]

The 'device' is known as known as a 'Clasp', initially it used to be for those who have served a 'specific' location at Siachen, but now it is to denote the recipients of "Imtiaz-i-Sanad." Moreover, this clasp is also worn over the Staff Course medal who were part of particular re-union that took place at the Staff College.

For the other ribbons, please wait out!

 

[Xeric]

Well speaking frankly i cant see the 'unknown2' anywhere on those generals, may be my eyesight has gone bad, but the nearest i could match with it is the one which Sir Musharraf is wearing in his top most row (the left most medal)

i.e. white-(wider)green-white. This is Nishan-i-Imtiaz (military).

Now here's the catch!!!!!

Lukasz the one that you have shown (medals.pl/pk/r/pk_unknown2.gif)

i.e. (white-green-white). This is Sitara-i-Jurat.

i hope you got it or may be you can give me more details. As for the 'unknow1', well i am still finding it
------
i hope you can the difference between these two:

 

[Lukasz G]

Thank you very much for the information. I have found a better photo of General Ehsan Ul Haq. Upon a closer examination, I see that the central stripe of the other ribbon is maroon rather than dark green. He is also the only high-ranking military the photo of whom I found that is wearing the ribbon without the Mention in Despatches badge on it.

Here is the ribbon w. MID:

medals.pl/pk/r/pk_unknown2b_mid.gif

and without MID

medals.pl/pk/r/pk_unknown2b.gif

Sorry again I cannot paste the images directly into the thread

Gen. Ehsan (with Canadian General Henault):

medals.pl/other/Ehsan.jpg

And his ribbons:

medals.pl/other/Ehsan_ribbons.jpg

(the ribbons I do not know are red encircled)

Here is another photo of Gen. Kayani. The medal I mean is the last of his. I think it is not the Independence Day Golden Jubilee Medal. Not too much can be seen, but it is the best photo of the medal I have found.

medals.pl/other/Kayani4.jpg

Best regards,
Lukasz

I have found some additional information about Polish aviators who helped build the Pakistani Air Force. I will send it in a separate thread.

 

[Xeric]

Thank you very much for the information. I have found a better photo of General Ehsan Ul Haq. Upon a closer examination, I see that the central stripe of the other ribbon is maroon rather than dark green. He is also the only high-ranking military the photo of whom I found that is wearing the ribbon without the Mention in Despatches badge on it.

Here is the ribbon w. MID:

medals.pl/pk/r/pk_unknown2b_mid.gif

It is Staff Course Madel ONLY for those who attended the Staff Course before 2007 i.e before the completion if its 100 years.

and without MID

medals.pl/pk/r/pk_unknown2b.gif

The MID is added to those officer's ribbon who attended the Grand Re-union that took place on the completion of 100 if Staff College.


And as for your second ribbon, i am still doubts as i have not seen 'many' officers wearing it, may be it is the ribbon for 35 years of service, i have to check.

 

[fatman17]

cannot comment as cannot see the 'unknown' ribbon!

 

[TaimiKhan]

cannot comment as cannot see the 'unknown' ribbon!

 

[Lukasz G]

Dear friends,

I have just substantially updated my Pakistan medal ribbon web page. This was one of the first pages on the site and it has not been updated until now. When it was created I had much less information about the Pakistani award system than I have now, consequently the page contained many errors. The update would not be possible without your kind help and I owe you a lot for this. I know there can still be some errors and omissions, so all your comments are more than welcomed. In particular, I am still looking for the information regarding the tan-white-light blue ribbon between the 30-year and 40-year Military Service Medal. If somebody has any information about it, please share it with me

The address of the webpage is: medals.pl/pk/pk1.htm

Lukasz

 

[TaimiKhan]

Dear friends,

I have just substantially updated my Pakistan medal ribbon web page. This was one of the first pages on the site and it has not been updated until now. When it was created I had much less information about the Pakistani award system than I have now, consequently the page contained many errors. The update would not be possible without your kind help and I owe you a lot for this. I know there can still be some errors and omissions, so all your comments are more than welcomed. In particular, I am still looking for the information regarding the tan-white-light blue ribbon between the 30-year and 40-year Military Service Medal. If somebody has any information about it, please share it with me

The address of the webpage is: medals.pl/pk/pk1.htm

Lukasz

Well i will look into this ribbon, but my guess is that this is a 35 years medal as not many officers reach the 40 years service medal and per my viewing so far, this medals has been seen with people with 35 years service. Also the pattern of colors seems similar with the 40 years medal, pattern not the color combination.

Hope so in a day or so will find it out for u.

 

[Xeric]

i will try to get the printed chart that shows almost all the ribbons that we use. May be tomorrow i'll post the pic.

 

[Ed_Haynes]

This is my first post. Glad to be here on Lukasz's encouragement.

I also share an interest in Pakistani orders, decorations, and medals. I worked with Lukasz when he did his first Pakistani ribbon pages and, for a long time, I ran a website on Pakistani awards (it is gone now). I am also moderator of an online forum on South Asian medals (I cannot post the URL!). I am a retired university professor with specialization in modern South Asian history.

I am interested in seeing Lukasz's questions sorted out. Getting authentic information on Pakistani awards is very, very difficult. I am at present about half way through a major book on Pakistani orders, decorations, and medals (sort of a sibling book to the one I recently co-authored on Indian awards) and am finding access to informrtion to be quite a challenge.

I look forward to learning from all of you and, maybe, contributing as I can.

Ed Haynes

 

[TaimiKhan]

This is my first post. Glad to be here on Lukasz's encouragement.

I also share an interest in Pakistani orders, decorations, and medals. I worked with Lukasz when he did his first Pakistani ribbon pages and, for a long time, I ran a website on Pakistani awards (it is gone now). I am also moderator of an online forum on South Asian medals (I cannot post the URL!). I am a retired university professor with specialization in modern South Asian history.

I am interested in seeing Lukasz's questions sorted out. Getting authentic information on Pakistani awards is very, very difficult. I am at present about half way through a major book on Pakistani orders, decorations, and medals (sort of a sibling book to the one I recently co-authored on Indian awards) and am finding access to informrtion to be quite a challenge.

I look forward to learning from all of you and, maybe, contributing as I can.

Ed Haynes

Your are most welcome Sir, would like to provide as much help as possible.

Regards