Originally posted by tphuang@Nov 23 2005, 06:17 AM
miroslav, original Talwar and Delhi are not considered to be stealthy at all. Their original hulls were not designed with stealth in mind, but putting the most potent weapon systems on their.
As for detecting enemy ships, do you have any proof that IN ships have radars that powerful? Club and Brahmos are both 300 KM or under due to MTCR.
The upgraded Talwar and Delhi are considered to be more stealthy, but still cannot be considered stealthy. If you want to know what's stealthy, take a look at Lafayette.
PN definitely cannot withstand an IN attack, but you are overstating the capabilities of IN.
[post=3495]Quoted post[/post]
Mr.TPHUANG,
in my entire post I haven't mentioned that Delhi's are stealthy. Did I?
Please enlight me.
I was mentioning the Type 15A Banglore Class stealth destroyers. Delhi's are technically Type 15 Destroyers, so please do not get confused.
Also TALWAR CLASS FIRGATES of the Indian Navy are originally modified KRIVAK-III class firgates which has stealth features.
Now regarding the weaponary radar guidence.
Delhi's
Radar: Air Surveillance; One MR-775 Fregat MAE (NATO: Half Plate) planar array radar.
Surface Surveillance; One Bharat RAWL (Dutch Signaal LW08) radar, operating at D-band frequency. INS Mysore also has SRA-01 IFF equipment atop the radar antenna.
Navigation; Three MR-212/201 navigation radars, operating at I-band, are mounted on the foremast. JRC SATCOM (Satellite Communication) equipment is standard on these vessels. INS Mumbai can be visually differentiated from INS Mysore by it's cylindrical SATCOM antenna.
Sonar: The first two vessels in the series - INS Delhi and INS Mysore - have a Bharat APSOH (Advanced Panoramic Sonar Hull) hull-mounted sonar, which provides active search with medium frequency and a Garden Reach Model 15-750 variable depth sonar, also known as HUMVAAD, which is mounted in a Canadian Indal-designed 'fish' deployed from a ramp in the transom. INS Mumbai features more advanced sonar systems, namely a Thales ATAS (Advanced Towed Array Sonar) system and a Bharat HUMSA (Hull Mounted Sonar Array) system.
Weapons and guidence systems: Sixteen 3M-24E (Kh-35 Uran or NATO: SS-N-25 Switchblade) AShMs, housed in four quadruple KT-184 launchers, angled at 30ú, two on either side of the bridge superstructure. Equivalent to the Harpoon Block 1C AShM, these missiles have active radar homing (ARH) out to a range of 130 km at 0.9 Mach, with a 145 kg warhead. All 16 missiles can be ripple-fired in 2-3 second intervals. The Delhi Class will be retrofitted with the GLONASS-steered, land-attack 3M24E1 Uranium AShM at a later date. The 3M24E1 AShM - export variant of the 3M24M1 - has more fuel, which extends range to 250 km.
Fire control for the missiles, is provided by a Garpun-Bal FC (NATO: Plank Shave) radar, mounted atop the bridge. This radar combines active and passive channels and in the active target designation mode, it operates in X-band (I/J-band) and can handle up to 150 targets at ranges between 35 - 45 km, although it is possible to obtain ranges of more than 180 km in wave-guide propagation conditions. The passive channel operates in the ESM mode searching for pulse and CW signals, and accurately identifying the bearing of hostile emitters from a built-in classification library of up to 1000 signatures. The maximum range of the passive channel is over 100 km depending on the frequency.
In the air defence role, a pair of 3S-90 launchers - one installed forward of the bridge and the other atop the dual helicopter hangar - are fitted with the Shtil SAM system. The Shtil system comprises of the 9M38M1 (SA-N-7, navalised SA-11) missile and 24 such missiles are carried in a below-decks magazine. The launchers elevate up to 70ú but have a limited firing arc of 30ú within the centreline. The launcher groups require a crew of 20 men and weigh about 50 tons. Target tracking data is provided by the MR-775 Fregat MAE planar array radar which can engage up to 12 targets at ranges of 32 km. Target illumination and semi-active homing is provided via six MR-90 Orekh (NATO: Front Dome) illuminators, four mounted forward and two aft.
The 9M38M1 SAM, designated as Kashmir by the Indian Navy, is armed with a 70 kg high-explosive warhead, has a maximum speed of Mach 3 (830 m/s) and can manoeuvre up to 20 g. The missile can handle target aircrafts traveling at 420 to 830 m/s and incoming missiles moving at 330 to 830 m/s. The reaction time is 16 to 19 seconds and the advertised kill percentage is 81 to 96% for a two-missile salvo. Ranges against aircraft are 3 km to 32 km with altitudes from 15 metres to 15 km. Ranges against incoming missiles are 3.5 km to 12 km with altitudes from 10 metres to 10 km. The missile probably has a secondary anti-ship capability.
One 100mm AK-100 single-barrelled, water-cooled gun, for use against ship and shore targets. The AK-100 can engage aerial and surface targets at a rate of fire of 30 to 50 rds/min and the turret can traverse through an arc of 220ú. Fire control for the gun is provided by the T91E radar, a part of the MR-145 or MR-184 (NATO: Kite Screech) fire control radar system along with a turret mounted Kondensor optical sight. Each shell weighs 16 kg.
Four multi-barrelled 30mm AK-630 Gatling guns, two on either beam, to shoot down incoming anti-ship missiles, at 3000 rounds per minute to 2.5 km. Fire control is provided by two MR-123-02 (NATO: Bass Tilt) directors at the H/I/J-band frequency incorporating EO sensors (including laser rangefinder attachments) along with a manual backup sight for each pair of guns. Each gun can throw up a defensive wall of lead at 5500 to 6000 rounds per minute out to about 2.5 to 5 km. Unlike Western CIWS like Phalanx or Goalkeeper, this is not a closed loop system.
INS Delhi and INS Mysore have been refitted with the Barak SAM system and the pair of MR-123-02 (NATO: Bass Tilt) directors have been replaced by two EL/M-2221 STGR radars, in addition to deckhouse modifications. Two of the four AK-630 guns aboard INS Delhi and INS Mysore have been removed, to place vertical launchers for the Barak system. As of July 2005, INS Mumbai has not been fitted with the Barak system and still has its original equipment fit.
Five 533mm PTA 533 quintuple torpedo tube launchers are fitted amidships. The launchers are of modular construction and can fire different types of heavyweight torpedoes such as wire guided or wake homing types. The Delhi Class destroyers are armed with the SET-65E; anti-submarine, active & passive homing torpedo to 8.1n miles; 15 km at 40 knots with a 205 kg warhead and the Type 53-65; passive wake homing torpedo to 10.3n miles; 19 km at 45 knots with a 305 kg warhead.
Anti-submarine armament comprises of two 12 barrelled RBU-6000 AS rocket launchers mounted in front of the bridge. These weapons are controlled by the Purga ASW fire control system. The RBU-6000 fires RGB-60 depth charge rockets to engage submarines at depths of 500 metres at a maximum range of 6000 metres The system may carry up to 192 rockets, each with a 31 kg warhead. It is likely that the new RE-91 ASW rockets could be retrofitted to these vessels in due course. They use the same RBU launcher complex.
The vessels reportedly have the capability to fire the SS-N-15 or the SS-N-16 AShM. The former can be fired from 533mm torpedo tubes, while the latter needs a 650mm torpedo tube due to its large size. It is not known if these vessels are fitted with 650mm torpedo tubes.
Talwar's
Radar: Surface Search; One 3Ts-25E Garpun-B radar at I-band frequency, using both active and passive channels, provides long-range surface target designation. One MR-212/201-1 radar at I-band frequency is used for navigation and a separate Kelvin Hughes Nucleus-2 6000A radar set is used for short-range navigation and surface surveillance. Also fitted with a Ladoga-ME-11356 inertial navigation and stabilisation suite supplied by Elektropribor.
Air/Surface Search; One Fregat M2EM (NATO: Top Plate) 3D circular scan radar at E-band frequency, provides target indication to the Shtil-1 missile system. Featuring continuous electronically scanned arrays, the radar rotates at 12 or 6 rpm and has an instrumented range to 300 km.
Fire Control; Features a Ratep JSC 5P-10E Puma fire control system, comprising of a phased array and target tracking radar along with laser and TV devices. The system - fitted above the bridge deck - features in-flight course correction updates via data links, has a maximum detection range of 60 km, operates autonomously and is capable of automatically locking on to four targets and tracking them.
Sonar: Some reports indicate that the BEL APSOH (Advanced Panoramic Sonar Hull) hull-mounted sonar is fitted on the vessels. The APSOH sonar performs active ranging, passive listening, auto tracking of targets and classification. Other reports indicate that the BEL HUMSA (Hull Mounted Sonar Array) sonar is fitted. The HUMSA is a panoramic medium-range active/passive sonar system developed by the Naval Physical and Oceanographic Laboratory (NPOL).
Information released from the Severnoye Design Bureau (SDB) indicate that French towed array sonars (TAS) are also fitted. This is very plausible given that many Indian Navy ships now use French TAS, however INS Talwar shows no signs of such a system. The vessel may also have a SSN-137 VDS (Variable Depth Sonar), providing active search with medium frequency.
Weapons: In the main strike role, an eight-cell KBSM 3S14E vertical missile launcher is fitted, which accommodates the Klub-N ASCM. The Agat Research and Production Enterprise has supplied the 3R14N-11356 shipborne fire-control system associated with Klub-N. Jane's Defence Weekly reported in April 2004, that IN sources indicated that INS Tabar would be the first vessel in the Talwar series to be armed with the supersonic BrahMos (PJ-10) ASCM, which DRDO of India and NPO Mashinostroyeniya of Russia, have co-developed. The other two vessels (Talwar and Trishul) will also subsequently be equipped with the BrahMos ASCM.
In the air defence role, a single 3S-90 missile launcher is fitted forward of the bridge and is armed with the Shtil-1 SAM system. The system comprises of the 9M317 (SA-N-11, navalised SA-17) missile and 24 such missiles are carried in a below-decks magazine. Guidance and target illumination for these missiles is provided by four MR-90 Orekh (NATO: Front Dome) radars, which are connected to a command and control post.
Manufactured by the Dolgoprudny Research and Production Enterprise, the 9M317 missile uses a combination of inertial guidance and semi-active radar homing (the 70 kg blast fragmentation warhead is triggered by a radar proximity fuze) to its maximum range of 45 km. The missile can engage the following targets irrespective of the intensive jamming and minimal altitude; tactical ballistic missiles; aircraft manoeuvring at acceleration up to 12 g; cruise and antiradar missiles; helicopter gun ships; remotely piloted aircraft; anti-ship missiles; and radar-contrast water-borne and ground targets. The missile's control system and warhead can be adjusted to a specific target (ballistic, aerodynamic, small-size, water-borne, ground, helicopter) following target recognition, which increases hit probability. Eight Igla-1E (SA-16) portable air defence missiles are also carried.
One 100mm A-190(E) gun, for use against ship and shore based targets, is fitted forward. The A-190(E) uses a lightweight gun mount with an automatic gun and fuze setter. The mounting is fed from separate port and starboard magazines and uses three different rounds: a high-explosive shell with an impact fuze; an anti-aircraft shell using an electronic fuze; and an inert practice round. An automatic control and monitoring system prepares the gun for firing, selects the appropriate ammunition, conducts continuous diagnostics and computes firing corrections. Fire control is provided by the 5P-10E Puma FCS. The gun can fire 60 rounds a minute out to a range of 8.2n miles; 15 km. Weight of each shell is at 16 kg.
The A-190(E) gun is based on innovative technological and layout solutions, which features relatively low weight-size characteristics. The gun leads to a more than three-fold increase in the combat effectiveness of surface combatants, as compared to those fitted with the AK-176M (fitted in the Khukri Class), owing to: increase in the range of fire (roughly twofold); 1.8 times growth in the lethality of projectiles at a target; doubled accuracy of fire; and reduced reaction time as a result of automated operations, such as preparation of the gun for firing, selection of ammunition, monitoring of mechanisms' operation during firing, and display of data on the operator's monitor.
The A-190(E) gun is also superior to the AK-100 gun (fitted in the Delhi Class) in terms of basic performance characteristics: the rate of fire (approximately 1.5 times); accuracy (about three times); weight; dimensions; and operating characteristics. The gun also features higher automation of fire preparation and control and employs advanced guided and rocket-assisted long-range and enhanced-lethality projectiles fitted with dual-mode impact / proximity fuses set to operate over the target area. Together with the use of the muzzle velocity meter, it is designed to produce ever increased combat capability of the system in fire against sea- and shore-based point and area targets. In addition, the gun hull features stealth technology to minimize the radar signature of a ship.
For the CIWS (Close In Weapon System) role, two Kashtan Air Defence Gun/Missile Systems are used.
Features the RPK-8 system, which uses a 12 barrelled RBU-6000 ASW launcher to fire the 212mm 90R anti-submarine missile or RGB-60 depth charges. The firing range is from 600 to 4300 metres, and the depth of engagement is up to 1000 metres. Two twin 533mm DTA-53-11356 fixed torpedo tube launchers are fitted amidships and fire the SET-65E/53-65KE torpedoes. The Purga anti-submarine fire-control system - a product of the Granit Central Scientific Institute - provides control for both the RBU-6000 and DTA-53 launchers.
Please feel free if you want to know any other info or if you have any comments.
Thank you,
Miro