PIA’s financial losses mount to $4 billion

[Khafee]

Do you know that during lunch or dinner, the PIA staff actually makes surplus food so that the employees can take it home, to their family? They aren't supposed to, they aren't some laborer working on PKR 12,000- 15,000 a month to resort to such things. These guys buy spares for the aircraft, even though they already have them, in their stock. They discard usable hardware to the scrap, when the time for audit comes. Forget their staff-to-aircraft ratio, its the worst in the world.

PIA was a very interesting place, there were extremely capable people who want to work, then again there were countless political appointments of people, who were only there to make illegal money. I believe that the situation has only gotten worse.

Isn't that the reason why the kitchen was out sourced to Singapore Airlines?

 

[Secur]

Isn't that the reason why the kitchen was out sourced to Singapore Airlines?

I really don't know, anything about that.

 

[FuturePAF]

Sad to say, but Honestly Foreign (European or generally White) Manager are what Desi and Arab Countries Respect
Look at who is the manager of the National Cricket Team
If a Pakistani businessman or MBA tried to lead a top level company that was government owned he could get undue political pressure , and if an Overseas Pakistani, such as Shaukhat Aziz comes in (even if on the behest of a military government) they wont allow him to do this task as politics would come into that as well

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaukat_Aziz#Controversies_and_criticism

Colonial Mindset is still with us; not just who we will listen to when asked to manage, but each person steals to fill his own pockets and doesn't give a good G-d d-mn about the country.

All that Expat money looking to be invested somewhere and the desi countries with their corruption and bad business environment make me want to keep my money in the US (where returns on business are a fraction of what they could be in Pakistan).

Btw already booked a flight, its on Emirates, after what happened this summer on PIA, my entire family has sworn off PIA, I don't mind paying extra for emirates (a shame as i never am a difficult passenger, low maintenance and wouldn't have minded to go PIA and give my money to help the nation), the reliability and regularity of problems has made it disheartening.

 

[xyxmt]

In another post it claimed losses are 45 billion rupees, there is a big difference between 4 billion USD and 25 billion rupees

 

[HAIDER]

 

[niaz]

Sad to say, but Honestly Foreign (European or generally White) Manager are what Desi and Arab Countries Respect
Look at who is the manager of the National Cricket Team
If a Pakistani businessman or MBA tried to lead a top level company that was government owned he could get undue political pressure , and if an Overseas Pakistani, such as Shaukhat Aziz comes in (even if on the behest of a military government) they wont allow him to do this task as politics would come into that as well

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaukat_Aziz#Controversies_and_criticism

Colonial Mindset is still with us; not just who we will listen to when asked to manage, but each person steals to fill his own pockets and doesn't give a good G-d d-mn about the country.

All that Expat money looking to be invested somewhere and the desi countries with their corruption and bad business environment make me want to keep my money in the US (where returns on business are a fraction of what they could be in Pakistan).

Btw already booked a flight, its on Emirates, after what happened this summer on PIA, my entire family has sworn off PIA, I don't mind paying extra for emirates (a shame as i never am a difficult passenger, low maintenance and wouldn't have minded to go PIA and give my money to help the nation), the reliability and regularity of problems has made it disheartening.

Sven Erikson, a Swede was manager of English Soccer team from 2001 to 2006 and the Manchester City football club from 2007 -2008. Arsene Wenger, a French man’ has been manager of the Arsenal Football club since 1966. Otto Rehhal, a German was the Coach of Greek Football team when they won the European Championship in 2004. In sport, most countries appoint manager /coach of the national teams strictly on merit, regardless of the nationality. Obvious advantages of a non -Pakistani CEO would be:

Non Pakistani CEO would have no relations / friends to favour, it is more than likely that he would go for merit and pick the people who know what they are doing – basically there would be very few ‘Sifarishis’ and therefore assigned tasks would get done.

Additionally, a non-Pakistani manger would probably be chosen on the basis of merit alone and thus would be good at his job.

Take example of the Railways, colonial masters left us a very efficient and reliable railway. The system ran quite well as long as persons hired during the colonial times were in their posts, after their retirement, everything went pear shaped. Main reason was that incompetent persons were promoted on ‘Sifarish’. How can someone with a fake degree look after engineering work? We even had a medical doctor (Dr Asim) heading the Petroleum ministry!

The same is true for PIA. It was a very competent & efficient organization when it was run by able CEO’s such as Noor Khan & Asghar Khan. Then comes ZA Bhutto, he fires senior staff in the bureaucracy and in all the nationalised organizations and fills it with the political appointees. Result was death of merit based management. Since then every major state organization has been on a downhill path.

We have been independent for the last 70 years and no one currently at the top job was born under the British rule, therefore the argument of ‘Colonial mind-set’ is no longer valid. One can say that there is an inferiority complex still existing but there are genuine reasons for it.

With a few exceptions, most Pakistani organizations are not headed by the professionals but by the political appointees. Now things are so bad that in addition to the ‘Fake Degrees ‘, there is so much corruption that exams results are no longer reliable. Engineering & Medical colleges have to rely on entry tests and oral exams for admissions. Why it is in Pakistan & India that fake degrees are common? Would you doubt a degree from a small country like Singapore?

Should we go on accepting $450-million loss each year or have a truly capable foreign CEO to run PIA even if he is a ‘Gora’ or ‘Kala’?

Best way would be to hire a CEO, give him a free hand for one year, if he fails to perform, fire him and get some one better. Remember a commercial organisation works best under a competent but ruthless CEO. Personally, I would suggest privatizing PIA as I do not believe that political interference in PIA will ever stop.

 

[SoulSpokesman]

@niaz,

Niaz sb,

Wasnt the last CEO of PIA a gora? And didnt he decamp with a plane.

Regards

 

[FuturePAF]

Sven Erikson, a Swede was manager of English Soccer team from 2001 to 2006 and the Manchester City football club from 2007 -2008. Arsene Wenger, a French man’ has been manager of the Arsenal Football club since 1966. Otto Rehhal, a German was the Coach of Greek Football team when they won the European Championship in 2004. In sport, most countries appoint manager /coach of the national teams strictly on merit, regardless of the nationality. Obvious advantages of a non -Pakistani CEO would be:

Non Pakistani CEO would have no relations / friends to favour, it is more than likely that he would go for merit and pick the people who know what they are doing – basically there would be very few ‘Sifarishis’ and therefore assigned tasks would get done.

Additionally, a non-Pakistani manger would probably be chosen on the basis of merit alone and thus would be good at his job.

Take example of the Railways, colonial masters left us a very efficient and reliable railway. The system ran quite well as long as persons hired during the colonial times were in their posts, after their retirement, everything went pear shaped. Main reason was that incompetent persons were promoted on ‘Sifarish’. How can someone with a fake degree look after engineering work? We even had a medical doctor (Dr Asim) heading the Petroleum ministry!

The same is true for PIA. It was a very competent & efficient organization when it was run by able CEO’s such as Noor Khan & Asghar Khan. Then comes ZA Bhutto, he fires senior staff in the bureaucracy and in all the nationalised organizations and fills it with the political appointees. Result was death of merit based management. Since then every major state organization has been on a downhill path.

We have been independent for the last 70 years and no one currently at the top job was born under the British rule, therefore the argument of ‘Colonial mind-set’ is no longer valid. One can say that there is an inferiority complex still existing but there are genuine reasons for it.

With a few exceptions, most Pakistani organizations are not headed by the professionals but by the political appointees. Now things are so bad that in addition to the ‘Fake Degrees ‘, there is so much corruption that exams results are no longer reliable. Engineering & Medical colleges have to rely on entry tests and oral exams for admissions. Why it is in Pakistan & India that fake degrees are common? Would you doubt a degree from a small country like Singapore?

Should we go on accepting $450-million loss each year or have a truly capable foreign CEO to run PIA even if he is a ‘Gora’ or ‘Kala’?

Best way would be to hire a CEO, give him a free hand for one year, if he fails to perform, fire him and get some one better. Remember a commercial organisation works best under a competent but ruthless CEO. Personally, I would suggest privatizing PIA as I do not believe that political interference in PIA will ever stop.

I agree it would be better to say inferiority complex, but definitely there is a racial element as Overseas Pakistanis can work there ways up a corporation and show true management leadership, but when they come to Pakistan ........ In the mean time, for those that argue saving this national asset is necessary, hire what you will accept, hire a white man or privatize it and let the new owners pick it apart, cutting down to financially viable routes, with lots of job cuts.

 

[niaz]

@niaz,

Niaz sb,

Wasnt the last CEO of PIA a gora? And didnt he decamp with a plane.

Regards

Hon Sir,

Bernard Hildebrand did not decamp with a plane. Charges against him being that he hired a plane from Sri Lanka at $8,000/- per hour while another airline has paid $4,000 for a similar plane. Additionally that he had sold an A310 to a German company at throw away price.

Let us be clear, I am only advocating that there is no harm in having a ‘Gora’ or a ‘Kala’ as CEO of the national airline if he is able to pull the company out of the mire.

 

[Affan-khan]

When you hire Gardner as technician in PIA. and whoever have contacts can get cheap tickets as low as 55000 rs return flight to tokyo. then there is People union and Air league backed by both parties. they just do politics and take salaries from PIA. how on earth this airline make profit.

 

[imiakhtar]

You can play semantics all you want, but before opening your mouth, go do some research and look at who did Emirates lease the aircraft from, when it first started operations. If you ever do get the chance do visit EK ops & maint. and see who are the top people there.

Hiring BA exec, or XYZ is not an exclusive domain, Air India, or anyone else CAN do that, who is stopping them?

Partnership with US airways - as in code sharing, and if you live on this planet, don't know how you have been oblivious to the fact that US airlines, because of their pathetic service, and high overheads have been crying because of lean efficient competitors, who truly provide value for money.

Instead of pointing fingers at others, look at the bureaucracy, and corruption that plagues both PIA and Air India.

Do look into why Air India had to sell one of the most fuel efficient aircrafts in the history of aviation - the 777. As an aviation enthusiast, I was saddened that Air India was disposing of these a/c's, but not surprised.

It's a bit rich of you to go off on a tangent with others when your own aviation knowledge is very superficial.

Airlines are businesses. Doesn't matter whether they are in the ME or US. The purpose of a business is to make a profit. The greater the profit margin, the more successful the business. Now, if we go by profit margins and safety, it is a FACT that US legacy airlines are both more profitable AND safer than Middle-East airlines. An airline which makes higher profit margins is a better business, even if it is Ryanair, than one which bathes you in luxury whilst posting thin profit margins. Oh and stop trying to claim credit for Pakistanis as though they're some sort of gift to aviation. Next you'll be claiming Pakistanis had a hand in the Apollo moon missions.

That is exactly what they want. To strip us of a national asset. PIA is deliberately being setup to fail so it can be sold.

PIA doesn't any assets as it is technically bankrupt and has been for a long while. Even the hotels people speak of hold very little value.

All American airlines are junk, I have been flying with them for more than 2 decades.
I have flown with United, American, PanAm, Eastern, Delta, Jet Blue and Southwest, to name just a few. They don't even come near their European counterparts. Absolute crap!

Just to give your safety comment a rest - I once got dropped at the wrong airport. How in the world do you mess up an airport, is beyond me. Whole bloody 737, at the wrong airport! That was fun!

They may be junk but they have the best safety records AND they are the most profitable. In other words, they are the better run business.

 

[maravan91]

Air india is worse than PIA.

 

[Khafee]

It's a bit rich of you to go off on a tangent with others when your own aviation knowledge is very superficial.

Airlines are businesses. Doesn't matter whether they are in the ME or US. The purpose of a business is to make a profit. The greater the profit margin, the more successful the business. Now, if we go by profit margins and safety, it is a FACT that US legacy airlines are both more profitable AND safer than Middle-East airlines. An airline which makes higher profit margins is a better business, even if it is Ryanair, than one which bathes you in luxury whilst posting thin profit margins. Oh and stop trying to claim credit for Pakistanis as though they're some sort of gift to aviation. Next you'll be claiming Pakistanis had a hand in the Apollo moon missions.



PIA doesn't any assets as it is technically bankrupt and has been for a long while. Even the hotels people speak of hold very little value.



They may be junk but they have the best safety records AND they are the most profitable. In other words, they are the better run business.

Talking sense would help, but then again, please continue with your clueless rants.

 

[PradoTLC]

It's a bit rich of you to go off on a tangent with others when your own aviation knowledge is very superficial.

Airlines are businesses. Doesn't matter whether they are in the ME or US. The purpose of a business is to make a profit. The greater the profit margin, the more successful the business. Now, if we go by profit margins and safety, it is a FACT that US legacy airlines are both more profitable AND safer than Middle-East airlines. An airline which makes higher profit margins is a better business, even if it is Ryanair, than one which bathes you in luxury whilst posting thin profit margins. Oh and stop trying to claim credit for Pakistanis as though they're some sort of gift to aviation. Next you'll be claiming Pakistanis had a hand in the Apollo moon missions.


PI they have the best safety records AND they are the most profitable. In other words, they are the better run business.

RE: Regardless PIA at one time was a top performer and it;s role in helping jump start emirates airline is well known. The point people are trying to make PIA has the technical ability to rise if it wishes to do so.

Having said that PIA should just be closed, PIA has accumulated $ 4B in losses.. money we could have used to build schools and hospitals.

 

[bafxet]

Take away Hajj and Umra and whatever left of PIA will come tumbling down. A fantastic piece of mismanaged business model. PIA heavily contributes to the amazing growth of Emirates, Etihad and Qatar....Long live Pakistan