Photos of of Russian Air Force - refurbished T-50 # 055--- intended for demo for IAF evaluation

[samlove]

Photos of of Russian Air Force - refurbished T-50 # 055


055 was intended for demo for IAF evaluation.

 

[$@rJen]

Is it going to be Indian Version ??

 

[samlove]

Is it going to be Indian Version ??

its just for demo purpose

 

[$@rJen]

its just for demo purpose

thanks.. so when are we realy going to get the first FGFA Prototype??

 

[samlove]

thanks.. so when are we realy going to get the first FGFA Prototype??

as they have reduced time to 36 months so around 2018-19

 

[PARIKRAMA]

There are 2 images which are very interesting

an older picture of the same

according to Russian forums

It seems much more likely that T-50-5R has partial RAM application in order to begin testing it, probably the material adherence to the surface (as it will be partial, it won't be useful to test RCS decreasing). Can't wait to see T-50-6-2, which will be the first with full RAM application.

Also made in this way, apparently bare metal, do not seem to have a good performance in terms of thermal signature...Engines will be covered in the final version... As of now its more like black painted..

The LEVCON leading edge and Wing Tips in T-50-5R now have a yellow color that weren't in previous pictures of this same aircraft. Maybe they are testing Himalaya ECM complex.



As for T-50 sorties/flight hours as of Feb.1, 2016:
Azohen Bei @airforce.ru
T-50-1 - 274 hours 227 landings.
T-50-2 - 244 hours, 241 landings.
T-50-3 - 340 hours and 175 landings.
T 50-4 - 225 hours, 152 landings.
T-50-5R (renovated) - 19 hours and 12 landings.

+++

IMHO we should test T50 -06 not 05R as we need to evaluate full potential of the jet.. with partial RAM coating we wont know the true specs potential.. especially the RCS part.. BCz making a 2 seater means addition on that itself from different angles..

Edited to add information about yellow wing tip

 

[$@rJen]

There are 2 images which are very interesting

View attachment 295403

an older picture of the same
View attachment 295404

according to Russian forums

It seems much more likely that T-50-5R has partial RAM application in order to begin testing it, probably the material adherence to the surface (as it will be partial, it won't be useful to test RCS decreasing). Can't wait to see T-50-6-2, which will be the first with full RAM application.

Also made in this way, apparently bare metal, do not seem to have a good performance in terms of thermal signature...Engines will be covered in the final version... As of now its more like black painted..



As for T-50 sorties/flight hours as of Feb.1, 2016:
Azohen Bei @airforce.ru
T-50-1 - 274 hours 227 landings.
T-50-2 - 244 hours, 241 landings.
T-50-3 - 340 hours and 175 landings.
T 50-4 - 225 hours, 152 landings.
T-50-5R (renovated) - 19 hours and 12 landings.

+++

IMHO we should test T50 -06 not 05R as we need to evaluate full potential of the jet.. with partial RAM coating we wont know the true specs potential.. especially the RCS part.. BCz making a 2 seater means addition on that itself from different angles..

Is 6th one available Yet??? According to wiki the parts were borrowed from T-50 -6 wich ws under contruction and used to rebuild the 5th Prototype which crash landed

 

[Ind4Ever]

There are 2 images which are very interesting

View attachment 295403

an older picture of the same
View attachment 295404

according to Russian forums

It seems much more likely that T-50-5R has partial RAM application in order to begin testing it, probably the material adherence to the surface (as it will be partial, it won't be useful to test RCS decreasing). Can't wait to see T-50-6-2, which will be the first with full RAM application.

Also made in this way, apparently bare metal, do not seem to have a good performance in terms of thermal signature...Engines will be covered in the final version... As of now its more like black painted..

The LEVCON leading edge and Wing Tips in T-50-5R now have a yellow color that weren't in previous pictures of this same aircraft. Maybe they are testing Himalaya ECM complex.



As for T-50 sorties/flight hours as of Feb.1, 2016:
Azohen Bei @airforce.ru
T-50-1 - 274 hours 227 landings.
T-50-2 - 244 hours, 241 landings.
T-50-3 - 340 hours and 175 landings.
T 50-4 - 225 hours, 152 landings.
T-50-5R (renovated) - 19 hours and 12 landings.

+++

IMHO we should test T50 -06 not 05R as we need to evaluate full potential of the jet.. with partial RAM coating we wont know the true specs potential.. especially the RCS part.. BCz making a 2 seater means addition on that itself from different angles..

Edited to add information about yellow wing tip

Thanks for this info mate very helpful. As far as I know . Îndią will induct PakFa with full RAM coating till FGFA avionics and equipments modified as per Indian needs . that's how they reduced the induction period from 5-7 years to 3-4 years

Can you confirm this news ? When is engine under development for PakFa will be tested?

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Is 6th one available Yet??? According to wiki the parts were borrowed from T-50 -6 wich ws under contruction and used to rebuild the 5th Prototype which crash landed

About T-50R
T-50-5 aircraft made its maiden flight in October 27, 2013. However, the June 10, 2014 T-50-5 aircraft was seriously damaged by fire in the right engine while landing during a demonstration flight in Zhukovsky before the Indian delegation. The plane was sent for repair to KnAAZ, which took more than a year. It got a new designation of T-50-5R, aircraft was rebuilt using the airframe via suspended construction on KnAAZ flight prototype T-50-06.
+++

Time frame for T50-06 to T50-11.. Courtesy Berkut

T-50-6-2 - assembly after the application of RAM, preparations for completions center-seam and air intake, deadlines are the same as T-50 -8 (6-2 is actually made with newer materials as some of its parts like fuselage got transferred to 5R)

T-50-8 - completion of final assembly, completion of the fuel system. Transfer to LIS for the new schedule - 20/01/2016, frequency testing - 27.01.-01.02.2016, the application of RAM - 25.02.-25.03.2016, the first flight - 15.04.2016, handover - 22.04.2016.

T-50-9 - Mounting wing sections/panels 10.02.2016, installation of engines - 10.03.2016, handover to LIS - 20.03.2016

T-50-10 - manufacture of parts of the fuselage, the fuselage dock and transfer to the final assembly shop - before 15.01.2016, installation wing sections/panels - 01.03.2016, handover to LIS - 30.03.2016.

T-50-11 - Manufacturing and head of center fuselage, the fuselage dock and transfer to the final assembly shop - before 01.03.2016, installation wing panels - 10.04.2016, handover to LIS - 15/05/2016

As for Indian part PMI here is the information
Credit to Azokh Wei

According to very reputable KnAAZ insider, this is the T-50 building plan up to 2020:
Long-term plan for the T-50 to 2020 :
2016 - T-50-9, T-50-10, T-50-11.
2017 - T-50-12 (static), T-50S-1,2.
2018 - T-50S-3,4
2019 - T-50S-5,6,7,8, PMI 1,2.
2020 - T-50S-9,10,11,12, PMI 3,4.

T-50S - Serial production
PMI - Indian FGFA prototypes
Note all this will still use 117 engines, instead of the izdelye 30, which won't be ready by then for deployment in these jets.

 

[$@rJen]

As for Indian part PMI here is the information
Credit to Azokh Wei

According to very reputable KnAAZ insider, this is the T-50 building plan up to 2020:
Long-term plan for the T-50 to 2020 :
2016 - T-50-9, T-50-10, T-50-11.
2017 - T-50-12 (static), T-50S-1,2.
2018 - T-50S-3,4
2019 - T-50S-5,6,7,8, PMI 1,2.
2020 - T-50S-9,10,11,12, PMI 3,4.

T-50S - Serial production
PMI - Indian FGFA prototypes
Note all this will still use 117 engines, instead of the izdelye 30, which won't be ready by then for deployment in these jets.

good to know we'd get our prototype by 18-19

But some times i feel like You leak some info of the insides that has not been known by the enemy/opponent !!!

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Thanks for this info mate very helpful. As far as I know . Îndią will induct PakFa with full RAM coating till FGFA avionics and equipments modified as per Indian needs . that's how they reduced the induction period from 5-7 years to 3-4 years

Can you confirm this news ? When is engine under development for PakFa will be tested?

I understand PMI planwise its PAKFA only with 117s and that will be full specs one as its after 50-11 and with at least 3 serial produced ones...

Engine prototype will be starting most probably in 2018. Perhaps in 2020 serial production one with later numbers (10,11,12 ) may see izdeliye 30..

Did u see one small aspect
--------------------
2019 - T-50S-5,6,7,8, PMI 1,2.
2020 - T-50S-9,10,11,12, PMI 3,4.

Source: Photos of of Russian Air Force - refurbished T-50 # 055--- intended for demo for IAF evaluation
-------------
If you see here, we know our talks are for 3 prototypes.. But russia plan is 4.. why? Bcz 3 are with 117s and fourth one will sport izdeliye 30.. Thats the one which will be the PAKFA stage 2 plane which we will use to retrofit our three prototypes later with i30 engines

about the news i am still not sure if its PAKFA stage 1 60 or stage 2 FGFA with izdeliye 30.. Will check with few folks and update here..

But some times i feel like You leak some info of the insides that has not been known by the enemy/opponent !!!

No way.. most of this information is from Russian forums where insider leaks it.. Unfortunately not many read there.. outside it i get to hear from my sources.. (most from company officials via my work , some more from bureaucrats and less from a certain editor)..

You want a teaser.... Ok here it goes..
What if i tell you rafale clean RCS is between 1/10th to 1/20th of clean Mirage 2000 RCS

and Mirage clean RCS is 0.8m2 as per informed folks saying its two third of old F16s whose clean RCS is around 1.2m2

So Rafale RCS is between 0.04-0.08m2 and average is 0.06m2 clean rcs and there is a program called DEDIRA where a even more VLO version is planned with RCS lower than 0.001m2 (clean config). [dedira is a spectra upgrade in very very simple terms for understanding]

Thats the one which is of vital strategic interest and now you know why i always harped that India is keen to get Rafales and get some technology know how for AMCA.

@Taygibay @Vauban @Abingdonboy @Picdelamirand-oil
I think they can confirm the DEDIRA part of RCS 0.001m2 and sparrow RCS of 0.06m2

 

[Ankit Kumar]

About T-50R
T-50-5 aircraft made its maiden flight in October 27, 2013. However, the June 10, 2014 T-50-5 aircraft was seriously damaged by fire in the right engine while landing during a demonstration flight in Zhukovsky before the Indian delegation. The plane was sent for repair to KnAAZ, which took more than a year. It got a new designation of T-50-5R, aircraft was rebuilt using the airframe via suspended construction on KnAAZ flight prototype T-50-06.
+++

Time frame for T50-06 to T50-11.. Courtesy Berkut

T-50-6-2 - assembly after the application of RAM, preparations for completions center-seam and air intake, deadlines are the same as T-50 -8 (6-2 is actually made with newer materials as some of its parts like fuselage got transferred to 5R)

T-50-8 - completion of final assembly, completion of the fuel system. Transfer to LIS for the new schedule - 20/01/2016, frequency testing - 27.01.-01.02.2016, the application of RAM - 25.02.-25.03.2016, the first flight - 15.04.2016, handover - 22.04.2016.

T-50-9 - Mounting wing sections/panels 10.02.2016, installation of engines - 10.03.2016, handover to LIS - 20.03.2016

T-50-10 - manufacture of parts of the fuselage, the fuselage dock and transfer to the final assembly shop - before 15.01.2016, installation wing sections/panels - 01.03.2016, handover to LIS - 30.03.2016.

T-50-11 - Manufacturing and head of center fuselage, the fuselage dock and transfer to the final assembly shop - before 01.03.2016, installation wing panels - 10.04.2016, handover to LIS - 15/05/2016

As for Indian part PMI here is the information
Credit to Azokh Wei

According to very reputable KnAAZ insider, this is the T-50 building plan up to 2020:
Long-term plan for the T-50 to 2020 :
2016 - T-50-9, T-50-10, T-50-11.
2017 - T-50-12 (static), T-50S-1,2.
2018 - T-50S-3,4
2019 - T-50S-5,6,7,8, PMI 1,2.
2020 - T-50S-9,10,11,12, PMI 3,4.

T-50S - Serial production
PMI - Indian FGFA prototypes
Note all this will still use 117 engines, instead of the izdelye 30, which won't be ready by then for deployment in these jets.

I am expecting we will be releasing some money soon for the 3 Prototypes.

I understand PMI planwise its PAKFA only with 117s and that will be full specs one as its after 50-11 and with at least 3 serial produced ones...

Engine prototype will be starting most probably in 2018. Perhaps in 2020 serial production one with later numbers (10,11,12 ) may see izdeliye 30..

Did u see one small aspect
--------------------
2019 - T-50S-5,6,7,8, PMI 1,2.
2020 - T-50S-9,10,11,12, PMI 3,4.

Source: Photos of of Russian Air Force - refurbished T-50 # 055--- intended for demo for IAF evaluation
-------------
If you see here, we know our talks are for 3 prototypes.. But russia plan is 4.. why? Bcz 3 are with 117s and fourth one will sport izdeliye 30.. Thats the one which will be the PAKFA stage 2 plane which we will use to retrofit our three prototypes later with i30 engines

about the news i am still not sure if its PAKFA stage 1 60 or stage 2 FGFA with izdeliye 30.. Will check with few folks and update here..



No way.. most of this information is from Russian forums where insider leaks it.. Unfortunately not many read there.. outside it i get to hear from my sources.. (most from company officials via my work , some more from bureaucrats and less from a certain editor)..

You want a teaser.... Ok here it goes..
What if i tell you rafale clean RCS is between 1/10th to 1/20th of clean Mirage 2000 RCS

and Mirage clean RCS is 0.8m2 as per informed folks saying its two third of old F16s whose clean RCS is around 1.2m2

So Rafale RCS is between 0.04-0.08m2 and average is 0.06m2 clean rcs and there is a program called DEDIRA where a even more VLO version is planned with RCS lower than 0.001m2 (clean config). [dedira is a spectra upgrade in very very simple terms for understanding]

Thats the one which is of vital strategic interest and now you know why i always harped that India is keen to get Rafales and get some technology know how for AMCA.

@Taygibay @Vauban @Abingdonboy @Picdelamirand-oil
I think they can confirm the DEDIRA part of RCS 0.001m2 and sparrow RCS of 0.06m2

World defence forum or Russian Defence net?

 

[Taygibay]

I think they can confirm the DEDIRA part of RCS 0.001m2 and sparrow RCS of 0.06m2

The sparrow size claim for original clean Rafale is easy to confirm as it came in a documentary
about the plane's genesis that is available on Internet, PariK my friend.

The DEDIRA goal is a bit different. Picdelamirand-oil is possibly privy to the best information on
this along with Halloweene but he would not be authorized to give you many decimals on results.
Do understand however that as with Spectra, DEDIRA is not wholly concerned with physical mo-
difications.

In reference to what can be done with other means, I can't give too many precisions either but I
can suggest all those interested to research Israel's use of jamming techniques that amount to
active cancellation. If you dig enough, you'll find bits and snippets on whole raids evading detec-
tion. How does this work? Well, one has to think creatively :
How about a platform that accompanies the strike package to provide the electronic defensive
suite that guarantees stealthiness at a whole new level?
We'll suppose an AESA and related techs device that can provide a bubble for the attack ACs ...
something too big to be fitted on the bombers themselves but with sufficient power to encapsulate
said strike package.

Rafale is one of very few platforms if not the sole one that was intended with such abilities from
the onset. Knowing this brings us to consider what VLO /all aspect stealth and the murky 5th gen
concept dismissed erroneously. What if by the time a sizeable fleet of 5th gen birds is made avai-
lable, solutions based on a non-physical approach could do so as well or better?

Well, that would mean that there are in fact more than one way to skin a cat / air force and that one
may get similar results from a very different approach. And if that is true, it is just another case of
different philosophies, different "mil cultures" obtaining similar efficiency through different practices.

Maybe, just maybe, the 5th gen is a darn good knight's armor about to meet its long bow revolution?

Food for thought ... and great day to you, Tay.

 

[Abingdonboy]

as they have reduced time to 36 months so around 2018-19

2020- at the earliest.

Note all this will still use 117 engines, instead of the izdelye 30, which won't be ready by then for deployment in these jets.

And there's the rub, the IAF has stated the 117 is totally inadequte and thus nothing has really changed all the Russians have done is de-link the prototype/induction phases from the 30's devlopment/production which means that a highly sub-optimal product with a vast array of limitations will be able to be delivered but obviously it won't be what anyone ideally wants.

It still means the IAF's FGFA won't be ready for induction before 2025- in a best case scenerio.

The rest is all hot air the Russians are trying to put out to dupe the less informed- without an appropriate propulsion plant the PAK-FA/FGFA is just a cool looking concept.

 

[Dr Gupta]

Is HAL technical staff still based there? working with the Russians? I know there was a team there but unsure if they are still stationed there.