Philippines scores against China in UN arbitration

[dichoi]

The mindsets of ruler and ruled are completely different. No one can rule on Chinese sovereignty. China is here to write international rules and orders, not be ruled against.

The conflicts of USA and China are about the rule writing, rules about IMF, SDR, SCS, trades, tribunal courts,sovereignty, navigation, sea et al. Since most rules are written when China was weak, they need to be modified since China is getting stronger. USA clearly knows the problem. It also suggests something like G2 model for modification. It simply uses Japan, Vietnam, Phillipine, tribunal court as bargain chips. When USA and China reaches some consensus, all of these can be sacrificed. Whether you like it not, the world is ruled by P5, with USA having dominant shares. With USA weakening, it needs give more rule writing powers to other P5 members such as China and Russia. Otherwise, China and Russia can build BRICS and AIIB to change or even overturn current rules. Anyway, international laws are used by P5 to rule this planet, not to be ruled against P5.

Only P5 can determine the enforcement of international laws, as stated by veto power in UNSC. This is the most critical component in the current international order. This power sharing mechanism make human kind avoid 3rd world war and allows Untied Nations to avoid the fate of League of Nations.

Wet dream of China. Talking about sovereignty, China's territory is in North China. Expansionism of China have to stop on mainland China. China can't counter US in SCS based on rules of international law and and also on china's muscle.

 

[Jlaw]

The mindsets of ruler and ruled are completely different. No one can rule on Chinese sovereignty. China is here to write international rules and orders, not be ruled against.

The conflicts of USA and China are about the rule writing, rules about IMF, SDR, SCS, trades, tribunal courts,sovereignty, navigation, sea et al. Since most rules are written when China was weak, they need to be modified since China is getting stronger. USA clearly knows the problem. It also suggests something like G2 model for modification. It simply uses Japan, Vietnam, Phillipine, tribunal court as bargain chips. When USA and China reaches some consensus, all of these can be sacrificed. Whether you like it not, the world is ruled by P5, with USA having dominant shares. With USA weakening, it needs give more rule writing powers to other P5 members such as China and Russia. Otherwise, China and Russia can build BRICS and AIIB to change or even overturn current rules. Anyway, international laws are used by P5 to rule this planet, not to be ruled against P5.

Only P5 can determine the enforcement of international laws, as stated by veto power in UNSC. This is the most critical component in the current international order. This power sharing mechanism make human kind avoid 3rd world war and allows Untied Nations to avoid the fate of League of Nations.

Dude, too much education for Vnese and Pinoy. you should charge them by the hour.

 

[Zero_wing]

Man the imperilalistas are going loco on this typical

 

[TheTruth]

Wet dream of China. Talking about sovereignty, China's territory is in North China. Expansionism of China have to stop on mainland China. China can't counter US in SCS based on rules of international law and and also on china's muscle.

Vietnamese territory is in a tiny part of North Vietnam.

 

[Cossack25A1]

APEC decides to held this summit in Malina. It's not Philippines who decide the place of conference.
Xi Jingping is attending APEC summit, not officially visiting the country. (maybe he will make official visit, I have not yet read the news. ) Got it, now?

I am aware that it is the APEC that decides where the conference will held, and from what I have read here President Xi to consider Aquino's invitation on APEC meeting: spokesman - China - Chinadaily.com.cn , Xi Jinping would either attend or not as the article states "to consider".

China could also using the ruling of the tribunal court as a chance to take islands back from Philippine by force. This will be a clear slap on the court and the Philippine and send a clear message to countries as Philippine and international organizations such as tribunal court. USA will be forced to make clear if it comes to defend Philippine sovereignty or defend freedom of Navigation. If it comes to defend FON, it cannot do anything; if it comes to defend Philippine sovereignty, all of its endeavour done by now will be meanless. USA has to tolerate the take-back of Mischeef by China; it will have to tolerate Chine to take back other islands from Philippine. USA is a law-based and interest-oriented country; it has to be self-consistent on the surface and as long as China awards USA interests on other fronts, it will accept Chinese action.

With the falling of USA, USA is making strategic retreat from West Pacific because US economy cannot support the current expansion. Pivot to Asia is just a cover for this action and optimizes the gain from this retreat. It will sell many interests in West Pacific to China as long as China can offer a good price.

So you are basically saying that the world should just "shut up" while China continues to expand and use money to "influence" other countries?

I guess in this world now, blindly follow China and they will receive its "blessing", while those that try to stand up or even criticize China will be "taught a lesson".

 

[anon45]

Who cares? China has nothing to lose here. If the final ruling is against China, China can simply withdraw from the UNCLOS by saying abusement of the law and Chinese sovereignty by UN Tribunal court. Since this is not approved by United States, there will be more damage to UNCLOS and tribunal courts since both the strongest two countries do not respect them.

When China signed on UNCLOS, there was a pre-condition that this law couldn't be used for sovereignty disputes. It the court doesn't respect China, why does China need to respect them? Without the endorsement of both China and United States, the credibility of UNCLOS and Tribunal Court will be in trouble. Even League of Nations could be disbanded, why not this law and this court?

Law and court will only be respected when there is an enforcement. A law and a court always treaded by the strongest powers will soon become meanless. UN Security Council avoided this and the fate of League of Nations by adding veto power to permanent members.

This tribunal court clearly is mindless. It may try to slap a face on China, instead it will find itself slapped.

It should be noted that the US does support UNCLOS, and generally follows its rules, even if it is not signatory to it.

China is also free to withdraw from UNCLOS, but foreign policy wise I wouldn't recommend it. It would really scare all of SE Asia, and the world in general. Would be great for the US though.

I don't know where you get the idea that the US is pulling back from Asia, we are reorienting our fleets from 60 Atlantic 40 Pacific to 50-50.

Interesting news... the US is also sending the roosevelt to the Malacca straits.

USS Theodore Roosevelt to dock in Singapore - Channel NewsAsia

Plus the Ronald Reagan in the Sea of Japan.

 

[Place Of Space]

It should be noted that the US does support UNCLOS, and generally follows its rules, even if it is not signatory to it.

China is also free to withdraw from UNCLOS, but foreign policy wise I wouldn't recommend it. It would really scare all of SE Asia, and the world in general. Would be great for the US though.

I don't know where you get the idea that the US is pulling back from Asia, we are reorienting our fleets from 60 Atlantic 40 Pacific to 50-50.

Interesting news... the US is also sending the roosevelt to the Malacca straits.

USS Theodore Roosevelt to dock in Singapore - Channel NewsAsia

Plus the Ronald Reagan in the Sea of Japan.

All China's reaction and statements so far are based on UNCLOS rules.
I am not doing anything job about laws, but as I know in any casesuit, one party can use some clauses of the law, another party can also use some clauses of the law.

 

[Cossack25A1]

All China's reaction and statements so far are based on UNCLOS rules.
I am not doing anything job about laws, but as I know in any casesuit, one party can use some clauses of the law, another party can also use some clauses of the law.

I didn't know that UNCLOS now legalized dumping sand on reefs that are submerged during high-tide. I guess we Filipinos are not updated with such new rules!

 

[Place Of Space]

I didn't know that UNCLOS now legalized dumping sand on reefs that are submerged during high-tide. I guess we Filipinos are not updated with such new rules!

UNCLOS has bunch of clauses. UNCLOS was set up in order to solve disputes, UNCLOS legalize nothing.

 

[Beast]

Brace for negative reactions from the PDF China Platoon as they are not going to be happy with this news. Also expect masked-derogatory remarks from them,, nuclear attack statements and the usual "we will still keep building islands", "we will ignore this news/developments", "this is ust round 1" or "it is America's/West's fault" statements.

We Chinese bear no grudge against ordinary Filippino. They need the Chinese to liberate them from US imperialist and the Aquino puppet.

 

[21stCentury]

So when will the Philipines dispatch their superior military to enforce their fairytale UN arbitration against China?

 

[Abacin]

Clearly these Vietnamese and Philippines do not understand the United Nation is not a government, but a coordination organization. It was born after World World II. Its top goal is coordinate P5 core interests to avoid next world war. To achieve this goal, anything can be sacrificed, including the fate of countries such as Iraq, Libya and Syria. Many countries knew this. Argentina would rather choose war against British instead of court ruling. Philippine is shaking the UN foundation by challenging a P5 sovereignty throught a UN sub-orgnization. No strong powers in UN, even United States are supporting it since one day this can backfire. United States never says that it will defend Philippine Sovereignty. US only defends freedom of Navigation. It can only have support from Japan since it is still under Enemy Clause of UN, which gives P5 war rights over Japan at any time.

Philippines can only get support from Japan, Germany since the UN foundation hurts them most. Article 53 of UN defines Japan and Germany as enemy states. Japan and Germany are trying to challenge UN foundation through G4, tribunal court. But even United States will object to any change of foundation since Article 53 gives validity for the US occupation of Japan and Germany. Chinese objection to tribunal court will only validate the superiority of P5 to tribunal courts, which allows US to act more above international laws, or domestic laws are above international laws. US will not be alone. China will follow. All P5 will follow.

US, China, Russia, British, Europe always define core interests to avoid fatal conflicts. China has defined SCS as core interests while US defines Freedom of Navigation as core interests. Currently US wants China to define details of SCS core interests such as details of lines (not dotted lines), SCS navigation rules et al. When China and US finds a way to solve the conflict of core interests, Vietnam and Philippines will be treated like nothing.

Philippines should learn to respect big powers like China. it is easy for China to push Philippines into states like Iraq, Libya, or Syria, Imagine that China provides military support to so many rebel groups in Philippines, Philippines would become a battleground for civil wars and have to give up any rights in SCS. Using a court to challenge a P5 sovereignty is a foolish act.

If Chinese neighbors force China to act like US or Soviet Unions, China will become a nightmare for those hostile neighbors.

 

[dichoi]

Vietnamese territory is in a tiny part of North Vietnam.

Study more ! Indochina peninsula is native land of Viets, bro.

Clearly these Vietnamese and Philippines do not understand the United Nation is not a government, but a coordination organization. It was born after World World II. Its top goal is coordinate P5 core interests to avoid next world war. To achieve this goal, anything can be sacrificed, including the fate of countries such as Iraq, Libya and Syria. Many countries knew this. Argentina would rather choose war against British instead of court ruling. Philippine is shaking the UN foundation by challenging a P5 sovereignty throught a UN sub-orgnization. No strong powers in UN, even United States are supporting it since one day this can backfire. United States never says that it will defend Philippine Sovereignty. US only defends freedom of Navigation. It can only have support from Japan since it is still under Enemy Clause of UN, which gives P5 war rights over Japan at any time.

Philippines can only get support from Japan, Germany since the UN foundation hurts them most. Article 53 of UN defines Japan and Germany as enemy states. Japan and Germany are trying to challenge UN foundation through G4, tribunal court. But even United States will object to any change of foundation since Article 53 gives validity for the US occupation of Japan and Germany. Chinese objection to tribunal court will only validate the superiority of P5 to tribunal courts, which allows US to act more above international laws, or domestic laws are above international laws. US will not be alone. China will follow. All P5 will follow.

US, China, Russia, British, Europe always define core interests to avoid fatal conflicts. China has defined SCS as core interests while US defines Freedom of Navigation as core interests. Currently US wants China to define details of SCS core interests such as details of lines (not dotted lines), SCS navigation rules et al. When China and US finds a way to solve the conflict of core interests, Vietnam and Philippines will be treated like nothing.

Philippines should learn to respect big powers like China. it is easy for China to push Philippines into states like Iraq, Libya, or Syria, Imagine that China provides military support to so many rebel groups in Philippines, Philippines would become a battleground for civil wars and have to give up any rights in SCS. Using a court to challenge a P5 sovereignty is a foolish act.

If Chinese neighbors force China to act like US or Soviet Unions, China will become a nightmare for those hostile neighbors.

apply your logic, SCS is belong to neighboring countries and P5 interests. China can have small part only. This is rule of UNCLOS to prevent next ww III.

 

[yowhenyo]

All China's reaction and statements so far are based on UNCLOS rules.
I am not doing anything job about laws, but as I know in any casesuit, one party can use some clauses of the law, another party can also use some clauses of the law.

Fail...
Do you even UNCLOS bruh?

Clearly these Vietnamese and Philippines do not understand the United Nation is not a government, but a coordination organization.

Clearly? Who the heck said UN's a government?



PH do know that (even if, let's say, they get a ruling favorable to them) China won't follow the court. Still, PH pushed this case to UN, why? Coz it's not their main goal to make China follow the ruling. Gotta think far ahead.

 

[Abacin]

Study more ! Indochina peninsula is native land of Viets, bro.



apply your logic, SCS is belong to neighboring countries and P5 interests. China can have small part only. This is rule of UNCLOS to prevent next ww III.

Idiot Vietnamese logic. SCS is a core interest of China based on P5 interest sharing mechanism. Even United States is not challenging it. United States only wants to defend freedom of navigation. Believe me or not, if China determines to take islands occupied by Vietnam or Philippines by force, nothing will come out from UN, or even United States as long as China doesn't block navigation of US fleet through SCS. UNCLOS has nothing related to next WW. Only security council matters. The core of UN is the security council. Without it, UN is basically nothing.

When China took back Scarborough Shoal From Philippine, did US do anything? China is doing reclamation freely on this island now. US will not do anything for Vietnam or Philippine unless its core interest is hurt. This is the interesting sharing mechanism in UN P5. Vietnam still can keep your islands because of your pro-China faction and your selling of interests to China. If they are purged away, you will see tough actions by China on Vietnam. Your leaders are not as stupid as you. They are learning from China, trying to trap Chinese interests in Vietnam and communicate with China to avoid military conflicts, just as what China does to United States.

Fail...
Do you even UNCLOS bruh?



Clearly? Who the heck said UN's a government?



PH do know that (even if, let's say, they get a ruling favorable to them) China won't follow the court. Still, PH pushed this case to UN, why? Coz it's not their main goal to make China follow the ruling. Gotta think far ahead.

Philippine is just a pawn of Untied STates. US just wants to use this chance to make China define clearly SCS core interests in details. Do you really think that US is as stupid as Japanese, still dreaming for a containment alliance? US is on a strategic retreat due to the over-expansion of empire power. British knows, German knows, French knows, everyone knows except Japanese, Vietnamese and Philippines. Do you really think that Europe can do something to hurt USA core interests? No way. Europe partnership with China clearly is allowed by USA. When China and United States finally reaches some deals, Vietnam, Philippine, or even Japan is for sale.

Rise of China cannot be stopped and United States is over expanded. This is the reality. United States cannot win over China, so it has chosen to bundle China in the same boat. United States wants more access to Chinese markets, instead of containing China. Only Japan is dreaming so called Diamond alliance.

The main question United States is asking China is not whether those islands belong to China, but what those dotted lines are. How are those dotted lines connected? Are these lines sovereignty lines or economic zone lines? US SCS sailing just wants to tell China that it wont' treat them as sovereignty lines, but it also communicates clearly with China that it won't defend those islands for Vietnam or Philippines. To be frank, even China doesn't know how to answer these questions now.

United States is pushing China to answer these questions by all means, but China is only interested in answering them when China takes all islands back from Vietnam and Philippine.

If not due to Soviet Union, China and United States had reached a deal to separate Vietnam into two countries in 1975 and solved SCS problem at that time. Time for China and United States to collaborate on this issue again. Hopefully US can engage a successful color revolution in Vietnam. There will be no Soviet Union to meddle this time.