Patriotic Dissenters Openly Supporting BLF

[Tps43]

running kharcha hum kyon uthayen?

Dafna do phario mein

 

[Armchair]

While I agree, government services especially health care, schools, and job training opportunities should be even throughout the country, how do we break the hold of powerful local persons that may interfere in providing these services? An educated populace maybe perceived as a threat to these powerful people. Going over their heads to provide these forms of development and not allocating the money to the Member of parliament could creat political deadlock at the very least.

Land reforms.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Allegations of enforced disappearances needs to be taken seriously, whether that happens in FATA or Balochistan or elsewhere. People making these allegations vary from ordinary folks to activists, to unsavoury characters. But if there’s truth to extrajudicial detention, then painting all dissenters as anti-state is counterproductive and unhelpful. We’ve tried this approach before, it never works, it always backfires.

 

[newb3e]

I do not know why anyone would want to censure people for being suspicious given that the military has a long history of extrajudicial and unconstitutional practices. I am sure the mutilated bodies are just propaganda, but unlawful incarceration and such may not be too far from the truth. How hard is it to gather evidence and make a case in court?

Much of the military's problems, and indeed those of the country, can be solved if the military aims at democratising power instead of shuffling it between populist leaders. Truly empowered local bodies would be much more agreeable to the military than strong central governments; I do not believe anyone who knows anything about our political history would disagree with that. I truly believe this is what will eventually end militancy in Balochistan along with a local industry manufacturing products that currently make up most of our import bill.

our army is run like a business it serves their interest to have their puppets on top so they can keep looting unchecked they will never allow normal people rule and question them.
if we look at operating procedure of say someone like malik riaz its its exact copy of how army operates both keep their pets in power and make sure their business interests are not hurt and they keep expanding!

Land reforms.

not happening army is the biggest land holder in Pak sar zameen!

 

[VCheng]

I do not know why anyone would want to censure people for being suspicious given that the military has a long history of extrajudicial and unconstitutional practices. I am sure the mutilated bodies are just propaganda, but unlawful incarceration and such may not be too far from the truth. How hard is it to gather evidence and make a case in court?

You ask how hard it is to gather evidence and make a case in court. Please do keep in mind, as is often insisted upon here, there is no valid proof of any extrajudicial and unconstitutional practices by the military tried to conclusion in a valid court of law, thus far, in Pakistan's history.

 

[CHI RULES]

Land reforms.

Agriculture already facing many problems if further land reforms are implemented then it shall be end of Agriculture in many areas, the big land owners still posses more resources so they can afford to face market volatility to climate changes.

On other hand on one side Baluchistan issue is complex but we may resolve it by policy of carrot and stick. Musharaf instead of dealing with Bugti in peaceful manner started a media campaign and then started action against him in result his many family members joined hands with extremist nationals like Mengals and Marris. After Bugti demise the issue was mixed with general economic issues of area and is used for propaganda in educated youth and some how tonic is working. On one side hardliners should be dealt by iron hand meanwhile on other side Universities should not be left in hands of groups like BSO. The infrastructure should be developed there under protection of security forces and real dialogue should be done with general public and sardars both.

There are lots of opportunities for tourism , mining and industrial hubs subject to better transportation channels and initial subsidies. Even in power sector the solar energy and limited hydro power opportunities are there. Meanwhile many mountainous regions pf Baluchistan are suitable for large scale cultivation of Saffron and Olives.

 

[RAMPAGE]

You ask how hard it is to gather evidence and make a case in court. Please do keep in mind, as is often insisted upon here, there is no valid proof of any extrajudicial and unconstitutional practices by the military tried to conclusion in a valid court of law, thus far, in Pakistan's history.

I was suggesting that the military present suspects in a court of law instead of unlawfully holding them for an extended period of time.

 

[The Accountant]

Ya, do that and parts of Balochistan and Sindh will be on eBay for sale.

No that will not be the case if its truly locally empowered with checks and balances

 

[Armchair]

Agriculture already facing many problems if further land reforms are implemented then it shall be end of Agriculture in many areas, the big land owners still posses more resources so they can afford to face market volatility to climate changes.

On other hand on one side Baluchistan issue is complex but we may resolve it by policy of carrot and stick. Musharaf instead of dealing with Bugti in peaceful manner started a media campaign and then started action against him in result his many family members joined hands with extremist nationals like Mengals and Marris. After Bugti demise the issue was mixed with general economic issues of area and is used for propaganda in educated youth and some how tonic is working. On one side hardliners should be dealt by iron hand meanwhile on other side Universities should not be left in hands of groups like BSO. The infrastructure should be developed there under protection of security forces and real dialogue should be done with general public and sardars both.

There are lots of opportunities for tourism , mining and industrial hubs subject to better transportation channels and initial subsidies. Even in power sector the solar energy and limited hydro power opportunities are there. Meanwhile many mountainous regions pf Baluchistan are suitable for large scale cultivation of Saffron and Olives.

very flawed thinking

 

[VCheng]

I was suggesting that the military present suspects in a court of law instead of unlawfully holding them for an extended period of time.

Who's to prove that the military is responsible for any claimed disappearances, let alone prove them unlawful, and far be it to carry such a case through the courts to completion?

 

[CHI RULES]

very flawed thinking

Sir with respect I want to state that I have traveled in Baluchistan with some interaction there and information available the land reforms may work in Sindh or some areas of Punjab but that is truth that land reforms are not required in Baluchistan due to limited availability of agricultural land and water shortages. The main problems of Baluchistan youth are job opportunities and better education. The terrorists mainly attacked educational institutions i,e Faculty members from Punjab to further degrade the educational institutions. They are using it as propaganda.
The terrorism in Baluchistan can only be ended on one side by military action and on other side building of infrastructure.

 

[nascar 42]

Sir with respect I want to state that I have traveled in Baluchistan with some interaction there and information available the land reforms may work in Sindh or some areas of Punjab but that is truth that land reforms are not required in Baluchistan due to limited availability of agricultural land and water shortages. The main problems of Baluchistan youth are job opportunities and better education. The terrorists mainly attacked educational institutions i,e Faculty members from Punjab to further degrade the educational institutions. They are using it as propaganda.
The terrorism in Baluchistan can only be ended on one side by military action and on other side building of infrastructure.

Hello,

Let me tell you something about Baluchistan as you mention problems with educational institutions there.

The issue is NOT with Baluch youth or groups like the BSO. The head of the snake are Punjabi Marxists who systemically brainwash Baluch youth in universities of Lahore. Do go to public sector universities in Lahore and see how this process works.

The Baluch students studying in Lahore and Islamabad should be priority number one for the Pakistani state. You know why ? Because once these boys do go back to Baluchistan, they get preference in interviews for government posts. I know this because a very close friend of mine was appointed as a Grade 17 officer and he told me that during the interview, the panel was impressed that he had studied in a well known university in Lahore.

If the state ONLY focuses on Baluch students studying outside Baluchistan. A lot can be changed in a decade. Guarentee all of these boys government jobs. Offer more incentives for PhD and give them teaching positions at universities in Baluchistan.

I repeat, the problem lies outside Baluchistan and with those people who provide intellectual cover to the BLA/BSO types. These guys who currently constitute the majority of social science professors in Punjab's universities deliberately target the Baluch and what happens is that these students, who are young and have just been to a new city, get involved in anti state activities. Some are charged with offences and their careers are over. This radicalizes them even more and eventually, they pick up arms against the state.

 

[CHI RULES]

Hello,

Let me tell you something about Baluchistan as you mention problems with educational institutions there.

The issue is NOT with Baluch youth or groups like the BSO. The head of the snake are Punjabi Marxists who systemically brainwash Baluch youth in universities of Lahore. Do go to public sector universities in Lahore and see how this process works.

The Baluch students studying in Lahore and Islamabad should be priority number one for the Pakistani state. You know why ? Because once these boys do go back to Baluchistan, they get preference in interviews for government posts. I know this because a very close friend of mine was appointed as a Grade 17 officer and he told me that during the interview, the panel was impressed that he had studied in a well known university in Lahore.

If the state ONLY focuses on Baluch students studying outside Baluchistan. A lot can be changed in a decade. Guarentee all of these boys government jobs. Offer more incentives for PhD and give them teaching positions at universities in Baluchistan.

I repeat, the problem lies outside Baluchistan and with those people who provide intellectual cover to the BLA/BSO types. These guys who currently constitute the majority of social science professors in Punjab's universities deliberately target the Baluch and what happens is that these students, who are young and have just been to a new city, get involved in anti state activities. Some are charged with offences and their careers are over. This radicalizes them even more and eventually, they pick up arms against the state.

I respect your opinion and many bitter realities are there, even LUMS has become a centre point of Anti State and Anti Islamic activities in the name of modernization. If some one targeting Baluch student should be kicked out of Universities however some sort of check should be there as students coming from Baluchistan and FATA may also include youngsters who are already brain washed and come with ulterior motives. Baluchistan requires the maximum attention and instead of providing funds to old faces the development projects should be started and complete under supervision of PM. The Baluch youth should get economic and educational opportunities within province.

At least there was much harmony till 1999-2000 when I used to study in Punjab University got interaction with Baluch students and only student organization was Jamiat in Uni. No ethnic grouping or sectarian difference was there. Though in the past got news of some Shia and Sunni clash at Uni. However now the news continuously come out one day Baluch students clashing with Punjab students on other hand in the name of Insaf students organisation( with majority students from Shia sect) clashing with Jamiat. I stand on point there should be security check of students from Baluchistan being inducted in Punjab Unis on quota basis.

 

[nascar 42]

I respect your opinion and many bitter realities are there, even LUMS has become a centre point of Anti State and Anti Islamic activities in the name of modernization. If some one targeting Baluch student should be kicked out of Universities however some sort of check should be there as students coming from Baluchistan and FATA may also include youngsters who are already brain washed and come with ulterior motives. Baluchistan requires the maximum attention and instead of providing funds to old faces the development projects should be started and complete under supervision of PM. The Baluch youth should get economic and educational opportunities within province.

At least there was much harmony till 1999-2000 when I used to study in Punjab University got interaction with Baluch students and only student organization was Jamiat in Uni. No ethnic grouping or sectarian difference was there. Though in the past got news of some Shia and Sunni clash at Uni. However now the news continuously come out one day Baluch students clashing with Punjab students on other hand in the name of Insaf students organisation( with majority students from Shia sect) clashing with Jamiat. I stand on point there should be security check of students from Baluchistan being inducted in Punjab Unis on quota basis.

I didnt know you were older than me Sir. Apologies if you took offence to my comment as I didnt mean to argue or challenge your assumptions.

You studied in Punjab University during the late 90's so you have an idea what I am talking about.

The thing is, I believe that the majority of students who take admissions in Lahore are still raw and if handled with caution, these boys can become an asset for the nation. If we start rejecting boys by doing security checks, what do you think they will do ? Of course, with no option left, they will join militant groups. The Baluch youth is indoctrinated INSIDE punjab where the first thing they are taught to do is read Marx, Engels, Lenin and Mao.

 

[CHI RULES]

I didnt know you were older than me Sir. Apologies if you took offence to my comment as I didnt mean to argue or challenge your assumptions.

You studied in Punjab University during the late 90's so you have an idea what I am talking about.

The thing is, I believe that the majority of students who take admissions in Lahore are still raw and if handled with caution, these boys can become an asset for the nation. If we start rejecting boys by doing security checks, what do you think they will do ? Of course, with no option left, they will join militant groups. The Baluch youth is indoctrinated INSIDE punjab where the first thing they are taught to do is read Marx, Engels, Lenin and Mao.

Dear I have studied at least Marx and Mao, I personally think that communist ideas are being used by thugs for their ulterior motives. I wonder the issues faced by Baluch youth are more or less being faced by Punjabi youth also why not they struggle united. I have had to visit Quaid E Azam University there Punjabis, GB students, Paashtuns and Baluchis, even small ethnic groups have their own councils. The students of such a prestigious University are divided ethnically, they hesitate to make friendships with each other they look divided. I was utterly surprised to see this and now same happening in PU. That is sad, the Uni management should work to unite these students on same forum, however Uni management always has own agenda.
The students already brain washed should be rehabilitated first, moreover Baluch students should get better education within Baluchistan. The negligence on Govt part is also there, though govt is bringing back many separatist politicians back to national politics along with incentives for people who have laid down their weapons but lot has to be done in areas of education and economic opportunities in Baluchistan. The Sandik project is still a scar for Pak Govt, the Govt should take steps to resolve the Sandik issue and benefits of mining should be used for betterment of lives of Baluch people.