Path 2 to Balochistan issue

[Salik]

Baloch people have an identity which gives them confidence and belief to live their life with distinction and show it to the world. Their history might go very deep into past but events of past 70 years have proven that they're here to stay.

Now, Pakistan can actually help them to achieve their glory.

- First, the Baloch people want to protect their land.

This concept isn't new in Pakistan. Many people are protecting their land. An example below;

"The example of Hunza is, however, being cited where no person can sell his or her property to the non-locals and this restriction is civil in nature..."

So Balochistan can have this thing.

Baloch people from across the country will be able to buy property in Balochistan. Other non-locals would buy on time basis, for example after fifty years they'll sell it back.


- The head of Balochistan could be called CM or 'Sardar e Balochistan'. A sardar is normally chosen for lifetime.


- Set the domain of every tribe so that they can solve intertribal matters accordingly, as well as having their area of expertise.


- Kartarpur Corridor is helping bridge people of Pakistan and India. Balochistan has potential to bring Pakistan and Iran closer.

 

[Maea]

The Baluchistan issue's answer lies in Islamabad/ Rawalpindi. I don't agree with you on giving Baluchistan a special status, there is no need for it.
Just build a decent State presence( Good police, quality education, robust healthcare easy access to gov. instituitions.) All people want is to live a decent life.

Gov should stop blaming india and accept that we have failed to fully integrate Baluchistan into Pakistan.

For many pakistanis Baluchistani is an alien land, some distant place never to visit or talk about. We have to change this mindset. When you have a good connetivity between all people all this ethno centric mess will vanish itself.

 

[Areesh]

Nonsense

Without defeating BLA/BLF/BRA militarily no solution of Balochistan is possible

No economic development or progress is possible with BLA/BLF raiding army posts

No dialogue is possible if BLA /BLF thinks it is winning war on ground

Nobody would want to visit Kech or Awaran if there are armed thugs roaming around and kill anyone anytime

We need to be realistic. All this give identity, economic development is all hogwash to cover up our military failures in Baluchistan

 

[Goritoes]

2 Paths for Baluchistan you ask me...

Path 1 : F-16's
Path 2 : Al-Zarrar Tanks

 

[Areesh]

2 Paths for Baluchistan you ask me...

Path 1 : F-16's
Path 2 : Al-Zarrar Tanks

Even that is not needed

Path 1: Drones for both surveillance and attack particularly in mountain ranges of Baloch areas
Path 2: A very strong human intelligence network and continuous IBOs based on that network
Path 3: Economic development (this is only possible after path 1 and path2 are successful)

 

[Goritoes]

Even that is not needed

Path 1: Drones for both surveillance and attack particularly in mountain ranges of Baloch areas
Path 2: A very strong human intelligence network and continuous IBOs based on that network
Path 3: Economic development (this is only possible after path 1 and path2 are successful)

BLA is not what they were some decade ago, now they got funds/Training/support from 2 of the regional powers surrounding us like a sandwich, To defeat them fully you will need the F-16's and tanks cause it will reduce the human cost of the operation.

 

[Areesh]

BLA is not what they were some decade ago, now they got funds/Training/support from 2 of the regional powers surrounding us like a sandwich, To defeat them fully you will need the F-16's and tanks cause it will reduce the human cost of the operation.

BLA don't occupy a piece of land that you need F16s and tanks to liberate it like TTP used to have at one point of time

At best they have makeshift huts and camps in mountain ranges of Balochistan

A drone can take care of such camps with ease. No need for F16s or tanks

As for two regional powers. They should be forced in any way to change their behavior

 

[Goritoes]

BLA don't occupy a piece of land that you need F16s and tanks to liberate it like TTP used to have at one point of time

At best they have makeshift huts and camps in mountain ranges of Balochistan

A drone can take care of such camps with ease. No need for F16s or tanks

As for two regional powers. They should be forced in any way to change their behavior

As much as I want to believe but things are pointing in the opposite direction. Yes they do not occupy the land but they are hiding in a much harder terrain with much lower density of population, so this put our forces in a much harder position to gather human intelligence on them, for example when Peace deal was done with TTP, ISI infiltrated and create a strong human intelligence network which help them in operations to come, We are unable to do the same in Baluchistan as effective as we did in SWAT and Malakand and respective areas.

Actually those make shifts camps are much harder to detect, because they are make shifts... and lack of human intelligence makes it even harder to trace their tracks in the wild wilderness of Baluchistan.

Drones....well lets not go there as I have strong feeling that PA does not have active Armed drones and if they have, they are not trained enough to use them, I can not believe that a Standing Army with lets say +/- 100 drones can not give air support to its forwards posts who are fighting for hours, or to those who are putting barbed wires to secure borders, I think drone program and future purchases has gone under the fat tummies of our incompetent Generals.

As for regional Powers and dealing with them, I don't see that happening either... I mean Iran has a strong lobby inside Pakistan which will make sure that Pakistan remain paralyzed when it comes to taking any harsher stand against the mad mullah's of Iran, and they are going to use the Sectarians aspect of it, You Attack Iran so you are enemy of Ahle Byt. As for India, under Bajwa and IK Indians are playing off their cards one after another, and by the time these two idiots leaves their officers Indians will already have consolidate their position not just in the eyes of their countrymen but the entire world. Kashmir is gone, and now Indians are eyeing for Baluchistan, give Bajwa another extension and IK another term, Baluchistan will no longer be with Pakistan.

 

[Areesh]

As much as I want to believe but things are pointing in the opposite direction. Yes they do not occupy the land but they are hiding in a much harder terrain with much lower density of population, so this put our forces in a much harder position to gather human intelligence on them, for example when Peace deal was done with TTP, ISI infiltrated and create a strong human intelligence network which help them in operations to come, We are unable to do the same in Baluchistan as effective as we did in SWAT and Malakand and respective areas.

Actually those make shifts camps are much harder to detect, because they are make shifts... and lack of human intelligence makes it even harder to trace their tracks in the wild wilderness of Baluchistan.

Well we are still doing IBO so there is some intelligence network. Not strong Yes. But it exists

All the militants that we killed in past few days were based on information provided by intelligence

Drones....well lets not go there as I have strong feeling that PA does not have active Armed drones and if they have, they are not trained enough to use them, I can not believe that a Standing Army with lets say +/- 100 drones can not give air support to its forwards posts who are fighting for hours, or to those who are putting barbed wires to secure borders, I think drone program and future purchases has gone under the fat tummies of our incompetent Generals.

This I agree with you. But there is no way around it. Drones are perfect for warfare in Baluchistan and we would have to use them sooner or later

As for regional Powers and dealing with them, I don't see that happening either... I mean Iran has a strong lobby inside Pakistan which will make sure that Pakistan remain paralyzed when it comes to taking any harsher stand against the mad mullah's of Iran, and they are going to use the Sectarians aspect of it, You Attack Iran so you are enemy of Ahle Byt. As for India, under Bajwa and IK Indians are playing off their cards one after another, and by the time these two idiots leaves their officers Indians will already have consolidate their position not just in the eyes of their countrymen but the entire world. Kashmir is gone, and now Indians are eyeing for Baluchistan, give Bajwa another extension and IK another term, Baluchistan will no longer be with Pakistan.

Agreed with this part either. Pacifism of Imran Khan and General Bajwa has given us only dead bodies. Yes. Agreed

And that needs to change. Without forcing both regional powers to change their policy viz a viz Baluchistan nothing would succeed

 

[Flash_Ninja]

Balochistan needs to be divided in the North and along the coast. Then there needs to be a rural investment campaign, so that all these villages in the middle of nowhere can start to develop. After HDI increases and they some infrastructure connection to the rest of Pakistan, things will be much better

Same thing needs to be done in Sindh too

 

[Flash_Ninja]

As much as I want to believe but things are pointing in the opposite direction. Yes they do not occupy the land but they are hiding in a much harder terrain with much lower density of population, so this put our forces in a much harder position to gather human intelligence on them, for example when Peace deal was done with TTP, ISI infiltrated and create a strong human intelligence network which help them in operations to come, We are unable to do the same in Baluchistan as effective as we did in SWAT and Malakand and respective areas.

Actually those make shifts camps are much harder to detect, because they are make shifts... and lack of human intelligence makes it even harder to trace their tracks in the wild wilderness of Baluchistan.

Drones....well lets not go there as I have strong feeling that PA does not have active Armed drones and if they have, they are not trained enough to use them, I can not believe that a Standing Army with lets say +/- 100 drones can not give air support to its forwards posts who are fighting for hours, or to those who are putting barbed wires to secure borders, I think drone program and future purchases has gone under the fat tummies of our incompetent Generals.

As for regional Powers and dealing with them, I don't see that happening either... I mean Iran has a strong lobby inside Pakistan which will make sure that Pakistan remain paralyzed when it comes to taking any harsher stand against the mad mullah's of Iran, and they are going to use the Sectarians aspect of it, You Attack Iran so you are enemy of Ahle Byt. As for India, under Bajwa and IK Indians are playing off their cards one after another, and by the time these two idiots leaves their officers Indians will already have consolidate their position not just in the eyes of their countrymen but the entire world. Kashmir is gone, and now Indians are eyeing for Baluchistan, give Bajwa another extension and IK another term, Baluchistan will no longer be with Pakistan.

Kashmir is gone? what are you talking about, the status of Kashmir has not changed one bit and the world still recognises it as disputed territory. In fact Imran Khan has done more for Kashmir than Nawaz, who instructed his govt to never speak against India or Zardari who was more focused on getting his 10%.

Balochistan has never had any popular support for independence. An increase in terror attacks does not mean that Balochistan will be gone, stop being so over dramatic.

 

[Goritoes]

Well we are still doing IBO so there is some intelligence network. Not strong Yes. But it exists

All the militants that we killed in past few days were based on information provided by intelligence

Exactly, the human intelligence are to be blamed for the recent hunt, which is all in all amazing without much loss from our side, but my argument was that human intelligence network is not that strong due to the fact the Baluchistan is a extremely low density Province, and what makes its hard is that its much much larger in size compared to the previous Agencies in FATA such as Wazirstan and Bajaur.
We could use the Drones for surveillance but I think the drones are just the work of our imaginations, and I know few members will come here and say, yeah we use them, we don't tell public about it etc etc, Just as Public is not seeing Pakistani drones in Action, we develop a sense of content that they don't even exists, similar to that the terrorists are not fearing the drones because they or their handlers are not even seeing drones footages been released by Forces to create a sense of fear and discomfort among them, Yaar I once saw a interview of a Wazirstani young boy, he told Journalist that he is so scared to even go outside to play that a drone will hit him, he was so scared that even if he see a large bird that fly's high he thinks its a drone and hide, Yes for that kid it was horrible but I want that fear in BLA and TTP, I want them to fear that that they are constantly been monitored and any moment can/will be their last moment.

Agreed with this part either. Pacifism of Imran Khan and General Bajwa has given us only dead bodies. Yes. Agreed

And that needs to change. Without forcing both regional powers to change their policy viz a viz Baluchistan nothing would succeed

We need to join hands with Arabs, there is no other way around... Arabs are powerful and rich, and have much more to offer than Iran, Iranians have a very strong reason to not like Pakistani's and they knows it very well its embedded in their society and religious ideological identity. As for India they are having a time of their lives since IK/Bajwa due took office. God knows what else Pakistan will lose under these two idiots.

Kashmir is gone? what are you talking about, the status of Kashmir has not changed one bit and the world still recognises it as disputed territory. In fact Imran Khan has done more for Kashmir than Nawaz, who instructed his govt to never speak against India or Zardari who was more focused on getting his 10%.

My post was not in context of which Leader shout the loudest Kashmir in Pakistan, so before you declare me patwari or Jiyala first understand the context, Kashmir is gone, India has full control and the insurgency is almost dead, ask yourself this when was the last time you saw a Attack in Kashmir with Indian deaths into 2 figures ? India has consolidate its position, secure its every inch with half a million troops, they are much more effective and powerful in lobbying and creating a narrative in the world, and you still think that Sultan Bajwa and Jalal uddin Imran Khan Akber will liberate Kashmir ? LOL

 

[Enigma SIG]

Balochistan needs to be divided in the North and along the coast. Then there needs to be a rural investment campaign, so that all these villages in the middle of nowhere can start to develop. After HDI increases and they some infrastructure connection to the rest of Pakistan, things will be much better

Same thing needs to be done in Sindh too

You can't do this if you don't hold the other provinces to the same standard.
Pakistan realistically needs > 50 Administrative units. All provinces based on ethnic / linguistic divides needs to be dissolved.

 

[R Wing]

Nonsense

Without defeating BLA/BLF/BRA militarily no solution of Balochistan is possible

No economic development or progress is possible with BLA/BLF raiding army posts

No dialogue is possible if BLA /BLF thinks it is winning war on ground

Nobody would want to visit Kech or Awaran if there are armed thugs roaming around and kill anyone anytime

We need to be realistic. All this give identity, economic development is all hogwash to cover up our military failures in Baluchistan

Don't forget that you can't defeat an ideology - especially one that is flush with foreign cash and support (and also enjoys a sanctuary beyond borders) - through kinetic means alone, meaning that military ops must be complemented with:
-development
-better, competing narratives
-co-opting Islam to serve the state's goals (long-term)
-raising the cost for RAW/India

Military means alone have been going on for decades. The results are in front of you. Tactics without strategy = failure.

 

[Flash_Ninja]

You can't do this if you don't hold the other provinces to the same standard.
Pakistan realistically needs > 50 Administrative units. All provinces based on ethnic / linguistic divides needs to be dissolved.

True, but not as big of a concern. KPK shouldn't be divided until FATA is at the same level as the rest of the province, and Punjab is already being divided anyway.

Balochistan is difficult because the main issue is terrain, but at the very least there should be a seperated coastal and Northern province. In Sindh, Karachi and rural Sindh is held hostage by PPP and will never develop unless they govern themselves.