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Pasha assured of greater Pak role in Afghan talks

I agree with you as far as corrupt politicians etc. I also agree with you that americs is a menace. I would go a little further and say america is our enemy. But its always refreshing that americans hate and dislike our army and isi. I may be a bit naive but I think if your enemy says something is bad its normally the opposite.

Anyway I stand by pakistan army/isi.


The US does not hate the army nor does it hate the ISI -- why dould US hate it's "tools"? and make no mistake, these are for the US, just "tools"

As for standing with the the army and ISI - - Well, I am convinced that when the army and ISI stand with Pakistan, they will find that such a question does not arise.
 
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The US does not hate the army nor does it hate the ISI -- why dould US hate it's "tools"? and make no mistake, these are for the US, just "tools"

If thats the case why all the psy ops and media blitz by the western media against isi/army. Zardari and the democracy is now admired in the west and there is no question of aid being stopped to them
 
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Because it is "shaping" it's tools for the specific jobs it wants to use the tools for.

Listen, one day Pakistan will be free, one day, some day - but it will not be free of the US until the army stands with the people of Pakistan
 
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Because it is "shaping" it's tools for the specific jobs it wants to use the tools for.

Listen, one day Pakistan will be free, one day, some day - but it will not be free of the US until the army stands with the people of Pakistan

Under different circumstances I might agree with you but with the barbarians at the door I dont think we can have afford the luxury that you wish to avail yourself. The alternatives are just not digestable by me anyway
 
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Army put the barbarian there in the first place -- anyway, there seems to be confusion about the head and tail --- the tail imagines that it is the head and this brings us only misery.
 
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US-Pakistan relations: Spy ties moving back on track​

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan and the United States appear to have made progress in normalising their fragile relationship, with clear signs emerging on Friday both from Islamabad and Washington that the two countries were moving closer to resolving their differences on key issues.

Senior foreign ministry officials testified before the Senate’s foreign relations committee that ties between Pakistan and the US would be back on track in the “next few months”. The meeting between Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) chief Lt Gen Ahmed Shuja Pasha and his US counterpart Michael Morell was described as ‘positive’, an account corroborated by US officials in Washington.

“Things are heading in the right direction and the relations are expected to be normalised fully in the next few months,” said Senator Salim Saifullah Khan, the head of the Senate’s foreign relations committee.

Senator Saifullah told reporters here that Minister of State for Foreign Affairs Hina Rabbani Khar informed the committee that the differences between Pakistan and the US on certain issues “would be resolved soon.”

Relations between the two key allies in the war against terrorism hit a new low last week when the US withheld $800 million in military assistance to punish Pakistan for expelling American military trainers and launched a crackdown against the private CIA network in the country in the aftermath of the Abbottabad raid.

Khar confirmed that the aid was suspended over Islamabad’s move to compel Washington to pull out almost 150 military trainers. She is reported to have said that, of the suspended $800 million in aid, about $500 million was meant for the US trainers. She expressed the hope that the remaining $300 million would be released soon.

The committee directed the foreign ministry to submit details about the presence of US military personnel in Pakistan. It also urged the authorities to enter into written agreements with the US on counter-terrorism in order to avoid any ambiguity between the two countries.

The panel raised its concern over the use of a remote airbase in Balochistan by US forces. “The Shamsi airbase should not be allowed to be used by any foreign country,” said Senator Salim Saifullah.

The airbase was believed to be the key launching pad for the CIA’s drone campaign inside the country’s tribal belt. However, the government insists that airfield was used only for surveillance by the US.

Meanwhile, ISI chief Lt Gen Ahmed Shuja wrapped up his trip to Washington, where he held crucial talks with the acting CIA chief.

An intelligence official told The Express Tribune on condition of anonymity that the talks went well between the two.

Pasha’s visit to Washington was brief: he arrived on Wednesday and left on Thursday. He met with Acting CIA Director Michael Morell and other US intelligence officials. Both sides sought to renew ties of cooperation and move forward in an often challenging relationship.

“The discussions today between Lt Gen Pasha and the acting director of the CIA went very well,” a US official said on condition of anonymity. “They agreed on a number of steps that will improve Pakistani and US national security,” the official said, without disclosing any more details. A senior official at the Pakistani embassy in Washington said the meetings helped stabilise the intelligence partnership.

“Both sides were able to agree on the way forward in intelligence,” the Pakistani official told Reuters on condition of anonymity. “This visit has put the intelligence component back on track.”

Pasha had also been expected to meet with the heads of congressional intelligence committees during this visit, but the meeting did not happen because of time constraints, a US source familiar with the visit said.

(With additional input from Reuters)

US-Pakistan relations: Spy ties moving back on track – The Express Tribune
 
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^Definitely Pakistan will head to the wrong direction, we always step backward than stand in two feets. Really suck!

Pakistan will heading to wrong direction again rather than stick with it. I will repeat Pakistanis, are in weak corrupt, double standards, and dishonest country in the world to accept bribe from Foreigners who killed our people. Our senior members' tone here is change in supporting statements which is very disappointed. What happened to the statement "we can use our own resources without external assistances." or China's offers Aids.

"Another important decision taken at the meetings was to avoid using the media for “putting pressure on Pakistan" Believe me, media will continue to tarnish Pakistan. Fabulous.

Any discussing in prevent drones attack deal ?? May God help Pakistan (step backwards than stand in two feets).

by Raptorrx707
 
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I think we would all have greater confidence in the veracity of the suggestion that things are much improved if the article above sounded less like a motivated "official" release and more like a journalistic piece -- for instance, note there is little mention of what the main issues, visas for the bloated CIA presence and of course the trainers, consider:



So the Pakistanis, it seems have capitulated - in return for a verbal agreement with a US official that US CIA will not work against Pakistan inside, on Pakistani territory, the Pakistanis it seems will allow whatever number of CIA personnel the CIA decides it needs on Pakistani territory -- it's good to be CIA (sucks being Pakistan, a government and army that knows little other than always losing).

Additionally, there some curiosities, see if you find these "interesting" as well:



So the process is no longer "Afghan led, Afghan owned"???????
Or is it that the process being referred to is the US-Talib negotiations, while of course US insists that Pakistan fight the Talib --- and of course, the Pakistanis, "assure" that they support the "US led Process" whereas previously the Pakistani are on record as saying they wanted "Afghan owned Afghan led" process.

So another item the Pakistanis seem to have capitulated on -- after a greater role in Afghanistan, means exactly what???? More fighting in Kunar??

And consider the case of the CIA agent doctor -- now if the doctor was found to be an active cooperating agent of India, what would happen?? But instead the ISI will release this traitor, no charges, no trail - it's good to be CIA

And the biggest US win?? Well, the US will agree not to screw the Pakistanis throw the media - the Pakistanis are very proud (ghairat) and think bending over in public embarrasses them - so much pride, so much honor.


So yes, things are back to where they were, a great success

Overall they threw them a bone. I think the government is not stupid, but thinks all Pakistanis are stupid. I see them accepting this just to make a song and dance about how they got the Americans to play nice. All I understood from the article was Americans would litter Pakistan with spies, but perhaps not be as good at their job as they were before? I mean what is it that we're being sold here? How daft every leader in Pakistan has to be if he can't get that we want the Americans out of Pakistan preferably with a kick in the butt on their way out.

This ji hazoori culture is unacceptable.

Given that even the 'US Establishment media mouthpieces' are so far relatively silent in how the 'CIA browbeat the ISI to accept its demands', we should wait and see what exactly develops before simply assuming that Pasha and Kayani capitulated on everything.

As I pointed out in the other thread, the PA/ISI statements after the Abbottabad raid indicated that they were still open to official and overt military-intelligence cooperation and operations between the US and Pakistan - what was at issue was the covert network the CIA and US Establishment had built up in Pakistan because of the leeway Pakistan allowed the US, treating it as an 'ally', and getting stabbed in the back on the process.

And as I pointed out, and some other commentators argued, the discussions between Pasha and Morrel did not involve either aid or the release of the arrested Doctor.

As far as 'taking the US on its word' as far as 'Pakistani involvement in political reconciliation with the Taliban' is concerned, what else can anyone do? The US cannot sign a 'contract/agreement/treaty' declaring Pakistan to have a 'veto' over political developments in Afghanistan, and even if it did, such a treaty would be worthless given the influence and clout of the US internationally.

Arguing that the PA/ISI is merely going to be satisfied with 'verbal US assurances' on 'Pakistani involvement in Afghan reconciliation' is infantile - Pakistan has made clear over the last few months that it was being excluded from the dialog, and Pakistan is going to be carefully watching to see if that changes.

What I am disappointed about is the lack of progress towards an 'official agreement on intelligence and military cooperation between the US and Pakistan', that would be presented before parliament and ratified by it, and its broad contours made public to the Pakistani and American citizenry for their opinion.
 
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The same comment as yours Sir.

You gave diplomatic consideration to Taliban government in Afghanistan (Before 9/11), and then you started fighting against them because USA ordered you to do so. Do you have any valuable comment on that sir?

did Pakistan invade Afghanistan?
 
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did Pakistan invade Afghanistan?

You got the question wrong. Read the post once again if it helps.

My point is, you guys gave diplomatic considerations to Taliban and then now you're fighting Taliban (though you have not invaded Afghanistan. You're the alley of USA who's fighting Taliban)

So first you make friends(Taliban), then USA offers some money to dump your friend (even threatens to take you to stone age)and then you choose money over your friend (you take money from USA but don't even do what you're supposed to do, and end up having OBL right near the military academy!). Do you wanna say something about this double standards? You can ignore if its hard for you to reply.
 
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well you have to look to today....a lot of people made mistakes. Pakistan was absolutely no exception here.

the Afghan outcome is inevitable.....we are working towards tilting the tides more in our favour. Bluntly put. What is in our favour is also in Afghanistan's favour; so it all works out in the end.

ideally at least
 
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Gentlemen relax. US and Pakistan military\intel community have both learned some tough lessons recently.
Most Pakistanis will agree with me that OBL running his organization from within Pakistan without Pakistan's permission Or Visa (chuckles) did not help bring any benefits or prestige to a proud Pakistani nation. On the contrary he let loose Salafist/Takfiri ideology onto innocent Pakistanis and Afghans. So when OBL was neutralised ........that event in the long term is nothing but good news for Pakistan...and US!

Now Pakistan & US must work together to find and eliminate those non-Pakistani barbarians who have no allegiance to your flag, feel no compassion to innocent Pakistanis and have no respect for your country (Chechens, Uzbeks, Tajiks, Arabs, Somalis, Indonesians, Philipinos, Uighurs). It would be great if Gen. Pasha had something to share about that. I am sure he wants to reclaim his country from these foreigners.

Let's wait and see .....few more weeks.
 
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But we didnt thats why americans are angry with pakistan. And listen our border should be west of kabul. The afghans are our people. Come to pak you will see pattans everywhere assimilated. My wife is a pattan and she was talking to me about visiting her ancestral village. I suggested that it might not be safe. She turned around to me and said but the taleban are our people. The maddrassas are only down the road they wont attck their own villages and people. Oh and I am punjabi.:victory:
How easily you guys generalize on these matters?

Extremist elements are friends of no one, be they from Pakistan or Afghanistan.

I hoped that the SWAT episode would have opened eyes of Pakistani people but on the basis of comments of your wife, it does not seems to be the case. Taliban are our people, my God [Facepalm intended].

Also, an Afghan will remain an Afghan in heart.

The Afghan solution should not be just favorable to Pakistan. It should also be favorable to Afghanistan. While we have some allies in Afghanistan, we also have made some sworn enemies in Afghanistan due to our unjust policies in the past for the Afghans.

I hope that our strategic planners have learned from their mistakes in the past. This time, the entire world has stakes in Afghanistan and not just Pakistan. This is why heated debates between US and Pakistani top brass have taken place and these high-profile visits are an indication of this.

The US wants to make us understand that while Pakistani role is important for Afghanistan; Pakistan will not get the right to exploit Afghanistan again. We cannot just PICK and CHOOSE among the Afghan groups to impose them on the entire Afghanistan like we did in the past.

We need to allow Afghan people to decide what they want and we need to respect their mandate. Our Afghan allies can ensure that our strategic interests are protected. However, those allies should be integrated with Afghan society.
 
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The USA will use any and all means to further its national interests, and the ISI/PA would do well to adopt a strategy that finds common gorund while preserving, or at least trying to preserve, Pakistani interest.

And I say this with the correct intentions: Those claiming that Pakistan should be free of the US, and other foreign influences, are CORRECT, but need to realize that it will take DECADES of HARD, PERSISTENT WORK. That time is surely not now.
 
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