Parsi Times: Dadgah 'Asha Vahishta' (Pune) Celebrates 1st Salgreh

[padamchen]

Where did say anything bad about your religion in that.
First is suggestion and other i asked for information.
Where did you find insult in this?

Majusistan? Seriously?

Anyways, your genuine question was answered. Lets stick to the topic please.

@jamahir I'll come to all of yours now. Just returned from a late lunch.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Śakra]

Where did say anything bad about your religion in that.
First is suggestion and other i asked for information.
Where did you find insult in this?

It's his insecurity speaking. It's okay for him to say a blatent lie like Islam copied namaz from the fire-woshippers but if you point out facts then he goes crying.


cheers doc.

 

[padamchen]

Judaism:

He (Terah) took him (Abraham) and gave him over to Nimrod. (Nimrod) said to him: Let us worship the fire! (Abraham) said to him: Should we not then worship water, which extinguishes fire! (Nimrod) said to him: Then, let us worship the water! (Abraham) said to him: Should we not then worship the clouds, which carry the water? (Nimrod) said to him: Then, let us worship the cloud! (Abraham) said to him: If so, Should we not then worship the wind, which scatters the clouds? (Nimrod) said to him: Then, let us worship the wind! (Abraham) said to him: Should we not then worship the human, who withstands the wind? (Nimrod) said to him: You are merely piling words; we should bow to none other than the fire. I shall therefore cast you in it, and let your God to whom you bow come and save you from it!

Islam:

One striking example of this is the story in the Quran where Abraham is thrown into a fire after preaching against idolatry and is miraculously preserved from the flames by Allah. The Passage reads:

"And We had certainly given Abraham his sound judgement before, and We were of him well-knowing when he said to his father and his people, 'What are these statues to which you are devoted?' They said, 'We found our fathers worshippers of them.' He said, 'You were certainly, you and your fathers, in manifest error.' They said, 'Have you come to us with truth, or are you of those who jest?' He said, '[No], rather, your Lord is the Lord of the heavens and the earth who created them, and I, to that, am of those who testify. And [I swear] by Allah, I will surely plan against your idols after you have turned and gone away.' So he made them into fragments, except a large one among them, that they might return to it [and question]. They said, 'Who has done this to our gods? Indeed, he is of the wrongdoers.' They said, 'We heard a young man mention them who is called Abraham.' They said, 'Then bring him before the eyes of the people that they may testify.' They said, 'Have you done this to our gods, O Abraham?' He said, 'Rather, this - the largest of them - did it, so ask them, if they should [be able to] speak.' So they returned to [blaming] themselves and said [to each other], 'Indeed, you are the wrongdoers.' Then they reversed themselves, [saying], 'You have already known that these do not speak!' He said, 'Then do you worship instead of Allah that which does not benefit you at all or harm you? Uff to you and to what you worship instead of Allah. Then will you not use reason?' They said, 'Burn him and support your gods - if you are to act.' Allah said, 'O fire, be coolness and safety upon Abraham.' And they intended for him harm, but We made them the greatest losers. And We delivered him and Lot to the land which We had blessed for the worlds," (Surah 21:51-71).

This is a Zoroastrian Fire Temple (Agyari or Atash Bahram or Atash Kadeh or Atash Gah)

And this is Solomon's Temple ....

@jamahir

The inner Sanctum Sanctorum where the holy Atash is housed on a raised marble pedestal in a bronze and silver fire urn called the Afarganyu is the Kebla.

Only the priests are allowed inside. After daily purification rituals and prayers.

Cheers, Doc

 

[KhalaiMakhlooq]

This is a Zoroastrian Fire Temple (Agyari or Atash Bahram or Atash Kadeh or Atash Gah)

And this is Solomon's Temple ....

@jamahir

The inner Sanctum Sanctorum where the holy Atash is housed on a raised marble pedestal in a bronze and silver fire urn called the Afarganyu is the Kebla.

Only the priests are allowed inside. After daily purification rituals and prayers.

Cheers, Doc

At the very start of Judaism, there were three factions that split. One considered at Jerusalem, one at Gerazim and one at Shilo. Although they all considered the Torah, they differed in their Gods.

You should see here:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...age&q=now he eli had two sons gerizam&f=false

 

[padamchen]

@darksider

Its not just Nimaz that is Zoroastrian.

Or the 5 Gahs the 24-hour day is divided into.

So is how you guys hold your hands, palms upwards (divine energy channels flow out from your palms and tap into the divine portal over the holy consecrated Atash).

So is you wuddu.

So is your sajda.

So is your topi (same as the Jews).

So is your girban (built into our holy vest, the Sudreh) and its significance.

So is your Hazrat Adam and Eve (Mashya and Mashyana).

So is your Heaven and Hell.

So is your Day of Judgment.

There is a lot more. But you need to decide if you want to learn, or if you want to engage with trolls. I am cool either way.

@doorstar @AfrazulMandal @Nein @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Cheers, Doc

 

[KhalaiMakhlooq]

@darksider

Its not just Nimaz that is Zoroastrian.

Or the 5 Gahs the 24-hour day is divided into.

So is how you guys hold your hands, palms upwards (divine energy channels flow out from your palms and tap into the divine portal over the holy consecrated Atash).

So is you wuddu.

So is your sajda.

So is your topi (same as the Jews).

So is your girban (built into our holy vest, the Sudreh) and its significance.

There is a lot more. But you need to decide if you want to learn, or if you want to engage with trolls. I am cool either way.

Cheers, Doc

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Zoroastrianism is closer theologically to Yazidism than Judaism or Islam.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yazidis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yazidi_Book_of_Revelation

The Cosmic Egg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melek_Taus

 

[padamchen]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Zoroastrianism is closer theologically to Yazidism than Judaism or Islam.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yazidis

The Cosmic Egg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melek_Taus

Bro, Yazdiism is a much newer offshoot of Zoroastrianism.

I think as far as ancient Persia goes, the theological continuum was

Manicheism

Magiism

Mithraism (dualist, impacted the Greeks)

Mazdaism (monotheist, impacted the Romans)

@KhalaiMakhlooq The Yazidi and the Bahai are as closely linked to Zoroastrianism (with other peripheral influences) as Alevism is (one of the 4 main branches).

Cheers, Doc

 

[KhalaiMakhlooq]

Manicheism

Yes, I've studied Prophet Mani.

Dualistic religions are very interesting. Mandaeism, Manicheaism and to some extent the Druze

 

[padamchen]

Yes, I've studied Prophet Mani.

Mazdaism or Mazdiyasniism is what the world knows as Zoroastrianism.

We are the Mazdiyasni Zarathushtrish in our own Avestan tongue.

Cheers, Doc

@jamahir your question about the Dadgah.

This was the only one possible and allowed (after much debate .... over 8 years .... between the community worldwide and our high priests, including the Vada Dasturji - our Pope) for the purpose of a common community cum prayer religious and social area for born Zarthostis and those of mixed parentage ... even the rule of a single Zarthoshti parent has been relaxed for those who are genuinely interested but not of Zoroastrian lineage.

Look at it as somewhat of a Zoroastrian ISKON movement using the Indian Hindu analogy for non-born Hindus ....

Such are already present in Iran originally, and the US, Europe, and now northern Iraq. We even have some in the CAR -stans. All Zoroastrian people. Many reverting. Or nominal Muslims but cultural Zoroastrians, and wanting a place to worship. Religious libraries. Learn more about the religion and its customs. Prayers. As well as buy typical Zoroastrian stuff that is usually not available anywhere else (these shops typically are always found in fire temple compounds or just outside).

Today, there are three grades of fires:
• Atash Bahram (or Atash Behram),
• Atash Adaran, and
• Atash Dadgah.

The three grades of fires have given rise to three principle (and somewhat arbitrary) grades of temples:
• Atash Bahram (or Atash Behram),
• Agiary (in India) or Atashkadeh (in Iran), and
• Darbe Meher/Dar-e-Mehr.

An Atash Bahram and an Agiary (also spelt Agiari) or Atashkadeh have an inner sanctum where the fire is maintained and where ceremonies of the inner circle are conducted. This rectangular sanctuary, demarcated by furrows, is called the pavi. Only ritually purified priests can enter the pavi. The afringan or fire urn, is placed on an elevated marble platform at the south end of the pavi. Towards the north end of the pavi is the ritual instrument table, or alat-khwan.

An Atash Adaran or fire of fires, is the second grade of fire and is generally housed in an Agiari (also spelt Agiary, Agyari, Agiyari - India, Gujerati) or Atashkadeh (Iran, Farsi), both meaning a house of fire.

Agiaries and Atashkadeh do not require a high priest and can be attended by Mobeds.

The fire is built from the hearth fires of representatives from four professions: the asronih (priests), the (r)atheshtarih (soldiers and civil servants), the vastaryoshih (farmers and herdsmen) and the hutokshih (artisans and labourers). The consecration of the Adaran fire requires eight priests and can take between two and three weeks. With some Agiaries, the priest maintains a consecrated fire at home, brings the fire to the Agiary when required, and later takes it back home.

The Atash Dadgah, the court fire, is the third grade of fire. Dadgah means court in Persian. For an explanation of the development of this grade, see Dadgah - Courts above. The grade came to include home and heart fires. Today, the Atash Dadgah refers to any fire used in worship that is not consecrated. This grade of fire does not require a priest in attendance and can be attended to by the laity.

For the pragmatic, consecrating the Atash Dadgah is optional. For the orthodox, every fire used in worship is consecrated. If preferred, the fire can be consecrated within the course of a few hours by two priests who take turns reciting the 72 verses of the Yasna (a book of the the Zoroastrian scriptures - the Avesta). Consecration may also include the readings from the Vendidad.

Dar-e-Mehr or Darbe Mehr means the door of kindness and love. The name was used by Fasli Zoroastrians for their temple and by the Iranian Zoroastrians for the Tehran fire temple. The name by itself does not imply the grade of fire used within. However, because it is the name given to the Zoroastrian places of worship financed by an endowment from Arbab Rustam Guiv, and because the fires in these Darbe Mehrs were not necessarily consecrated or attended to by priests, the name Darbe Mehr is frequently associated with the Atash Dadgah grade of fire.

Source: https://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/temples/agiary.htm

This is a Priest lighting an Atash Dadgah (such fires are also used for house Jashan ceremonies and rituals, like a new office or home). With the Chasni and Malido (like prasad) given to the family members after the prayers are over. Mainly fruits (apple, pomegranate, mausambi, banana) and a halwa with sweet oil rotli.

Cheers, Doc

3. So inter-religion marriage is being accepted more and more ??

These sort of places and movements are specifically targeting mixed faith/race families. So that they have a Zoroastrian place which accepts them, which is the next best thing to a Fire Temple and a consecrated Atash.

It is quite heart rending to see non Parsis stand outside Fire Temples while their Parsi relatives go in to pray.

I remember my wife and I coming out of the fire temple after the Uthamna evening prayers of a very loved Irani gentleman of Poona.

His son and grand-kids had gone inside the fire temple to pray for him, as had his bereaved wife, but his non-Parsi daughter-in-law (who was really close to him) was standing outside in the compound, in tears.

A lot of my fundamentalist conservatism and orthodox traditionalism about this aspect of our ancient faith went out of me that day. Forever.

There are tens of thousands of people in India today who are cultural Zoroastrians in their heart. But have never been inside a fire temple. They keep that pain inside their hearts so as not to offend those they love.

They pray at home. In front of a photo frame and an oil divo. They wear the Asho Farohar around their neck. But they cannot wear the Sudreh and Kusti. But they are as Zoroastrian in their heart as I am.

This is for them. And this is being replicated around the world.

@ranjeet @third eye @lastofthepatriots @I.R.A

Cheers, Doc