Parachute Regiment of Indian Army copying Pakistani SSG Commandos.

[Signalian]

Oh bhai , yes there was a related title but so does Khalid Ibn Walid ? Sword of Allah , or Saif ullah tell me if that is not related to war ? I am not saying its wrong for saying any slogan of Ali or anyone but what I am saying that Ali RA has been the main figure of Shia Islam and his slogans will always have sectarian vibe to it, and I blame Shia people for it ( No offense ) .



There should be only Chant or slogan because God is above all, not even slogans of Muhammad Pbuh should be encourage, we are walking on a thin line of doing Shirk . only and only Allah is Great ( Allah ho Akbar ) rest are all based on which sect they belong or which school of thought they subscribe too .



Good that's all that matters in the end .

You don't get it, do you ? and will you ever ?

The name of Hazrat Ali R.A has been associated with Shia sect, but in Army it is NOT. You look at things from a civilian point of view. If you think only Shia sect in military chants this slogan of Ya-Ali, well thats a NO. If no one wants to chant Saif-Allah, then will you force troops to chant that slogan ? will you intentionally introduce that slogan because YOU fear that YA-ALi depicts shia sect ? well if that's the case then that is your own thinking as an member on an online forum while psyche in Military is different. Now you can put blames on shia or whatever, Military keeps unity.

What are u going to chant regarding Saif-ullah ? Ya Khalid ? Ya Ibn Walid ? By all means do it when you are fighting a war or leading the troops. The effect of YA-ALI is still more, and will be more always, just like effect of Allah Akbar is massive. There is also a Nara-e- Haideri in Military just like Nara-e- Takbeer.

There are other battle cry types for Regiment names and there are Regiment slogans even, which are chanted during battles and excercises. That is another way of raising morale. Allah is obviously a bigger entity than the regiment, but that doesn't mean that regimental name or slogan cannot be chanted. Regiment is fighting for the sake of Allah, use some common sense.

The chant and slogan will be what motivates and puts that effect on troops. If its a slogan for God or Hazrat Muhammad SAW or Hazrat Ali or whomever. Its a narrow minded scope to relate Hazrat Ali with Shia only, and then dictate who the slogan should be for like Allah is the greatest so slogan just for Allah, no one is denying that Allah helps and is the greatest but Extremist thinking is not encouraged in Army. Moderate is the way to go. Extremists in Military are weeded out and sent home.

I am so glad and relieved that Military doesn't work the way like most members have shown the sectarian divide posts over a slogan. If Military also follows the thinking pattern of civilians who are bent on sectarian divide, Military will collapse with in a day.

 

[YeBeWarned]

You don't get it, do you ? and will you ever ?

Relax brother, I get it where you are coming from, and I am not arguing you to be wrong neither Army is wrong in adopting those Slogans . We are just having a healthy conversation without murdering each other over Sectarian issue is all

The name of Hazrat Ali R.A has been associated with Shia sect, but in Army it is NOT. You look at things from a civilian point of view. If you think only Shia sect in military chants this slogan of Ya-Ali, well thats a NO. If no one wants to chant Saif-Allah, then will you force troops to chant that slogan ? will you intentionally introduce that slogan because YOU fear that YA-ALi depicts shia sect ? well if that's the case then that is your own thinking as an member on an online forum while psyche in Military is different. Now you can put blames on shia or whatever, Military keeps unity.

I am not disagreeing but i think you are missing my point here, I am saying that in the times of Prophet there was only one slogan and that was God is Great , Allah Ho Akber and we should stick to that . This Nara-e-Haidry is later introduced by we all know who , if you see the concept of Battle chants or War cry in Islamic tradition they are mainly represents the greatness of Allah , Prophet himself kept his name away when it comes to showing gratitude of any victory or battle Cry . I believe the Military adopted this slogan because of the Shia soldiers ( most likely ) chanting Nara-e-Haidry , not just I have any problem with it as long as they kill the enemy it doesn't matter for me, but from some Shia ( hardcore ones ) who even seek help from Ali RA which in my opinion is wrong , Help / Bravery / everything belongs and comes from Allah and Allah only .

What are u going to chant regarding Saif-ullah ? Ya Khalid ? Ya Ibn Walid ? By all means do it when you are fighting a war or leading the troops. The effect of YA-ALI is still more, and will be more always, just like effect of Allah Akbar is massive. There is also a Nara-e- Haideri in Military just like Nara-e- Takbeer.

Honestly speaking, Nara haidry doesn't make much sense too , yes Shia people might find it offensive but the point here is that if we are making slogans over someone who has a bravery symbol in Islam than we have Ali , Khalid , Kaka , Saad Ibn Waqas , abdullah ibn Amr , Umar RA to all, All of them were brave and never backed from a fight, and fought against all odds , why we keep one specific Companion for battle cry ? and as i mentioned in my previous post why deliberately miss the Hasan RA ? these are non issues but again , its just a healthy discussion ..Unity of Islam and Muslims will only come when we all comes under the banner of Allah , Tauheed and rest are all put second , but unfortunately this is not the case .

There are other battle cry types for Regiment names and there are Regiment slogans even, which are chanted during battles and excercises. That is another way of raising morale. Allah is obviously a bigger entity than the regiment, but that doesn't mean that regimental name or slogan cannot be chanted. Regiment is fighting for the sake of Allah, use some common sense.

As i mentioned bhai they can chant whatever they want, My point is that this particular ya Ali chant comes from a specific sect but yes it is adopted by the other's as well weather willingly or unwillingly but its now become a norm/formal slogan in our country, I wonder if they do that in KSA ? have you ever heard a KSA Military chant Ya Ali Madad Slogan ?

The chant and slogan will be what motivates and puts that effect on troops. If its a slogan for God or Hazrat Muhammad SAW or Hazrat Ali or whomever. Its a narrow minded scope to relate Hazrat Ali with Shia only, and then dictate who the slogan should be for like Allah is the greatest so slogan just for Allah, no one is denying that Allah helps and is the greatest but Extremist thinking is not encouraged in Army. Moderate is the way to go. Extremists in Military are weeded out and sent home.

Well this is our Islamic dark history which we don't like to talk about , Ali RA was a remarkable figure no doubt, but the division among the Muslim makes him something other than what he really was, and hence things which were associated with him gets shady in the long history . I'd like to keep things simple as my self I don't associate myself to any Sect , nor my family did ..
Wait ? Asking help from Only Allah is extremist ? :O

I am so glad and relieved that Military doesn't work the way like most members have shown the sectarian divide posts over a slogan. If Military also follows the thinking pattern of civilians who are bent on sectarian divide, Military will collapse with in a day.

Military function with a code which they have to keep , yes its true its good for Pakistan but ask yourself does it make you a Muslim ? does it make you follow the religion of Islam ? And i mean real Islam , the Islam which mean submission to Allah , and him only ... not to Muhammad or Ali , or anyone else . If Muslims kept to One Allah and put him above all we would have no Sects to begin with, then there would no Nara-e-Haidy , Nara-e-Farooqi etc ..

 

[Signalian]

Relax brother, I get it where you are coming from, and I am not arguing you to be wrong neither Army is wrong in adopting those Slogans . We are just having a healthy conversation without murdering each other over Sectarian issue is all



I am not disagreeing but i think you are missing my point here, I am saying that in the times of Prophet there was only one slogan and that was God is Great , Allah Ho Akber and we should stick to that . This Nara-e-Haidry is later introduced by we all know who , if you see the concept of Battle chants or War cry in Islamic tradition they are mainly represents the greatness of Allah , Prophet himself kept his name away when it comes to showing gratitude of any victory or battle Cry . I believe the Military adopted this slogan because of the Shia soldiers ( most likely ) chanting Nara-e-Haidry , not just I have any problem with it as long as they kill the enemy it doesn't matter for me, but from some Shia ( hardcore ones ) who even seek help from Ali RA which in my opinion is wrong , Help / Bravery / everything belongs and comes from Allah and Allah only .



Honestly speaking, Nara haidry doesn't make much sense too , yes Shia people might find it offensive but the point here is that if we are making slogans over someone who has a bravery symbol in Islam than we have Ali , Khalid , Kaka , Saad Ibn Waqas , abdullah ibn Amr , Umar RA to all, All of them were brave and never backed from a fight, and fought against all odds , why we keep one specific Companion for battle cry ? and as i mentioned in my previous post why deliberately miss the Hasan RA ? these are non issues but again , its just a healthy discussion ..Unity of Islam and Muslims will only come when we all comes under the banner of Allah , Tauheed and rest are all put second , but unfortunately this is not the case .



As i mentioned bhai they can chant whatever they want, My point is that this particular ya Ali chant comes from a specific sect but yes it is adopted by the other's as well weather willingly or unwillingly but its now become a norm/formal slogan in our country, I wonder if they do that in KSA ? have you ever heard a KSA Military chant Ya Ali Madad Slogan ?



Well this is our Islamic dark history which we don't like to talk about , Ali RA was a remarkable figure no doubt, but the division among the Muslim makes him something other than what he really was, and hence things which were associated with him gets shady in the long history . I'd like to keep things simple as my self I don't associate myself to any Sect , nor my family did ..
Wait ? Asking help from Only Allah is extremist ? :O



Military function with a code which they have to keep , yes its true its good for Pakistan but ask yourself does it make you a Muslim ? does it make you follow the religion of Islam ? And i mean real Islam , the Islam which mean submission to Allah , and him only ... not to Muhammad or Ali , or anyone else . If Muslims kept to One Allah and put him above all we would have no Sects to begin with, then there would no Nara-e-Haidy , Nara-e-Farooqi etc ..

Im just glad there is no sectarian divide in Military, now i know why extremism is not advocated in Army. Real Islam ? so is there an un-real islam also? You know what makes a person muslim, so dont ask me. Those who submit to Allah, also submit to Muhammad. Muslims and Military does keep to one Allah. I am relieved that things are much straighter in military, not as confusing as in your post.

Why is this going into a sectarian discussion?

Military has done a great job keeping 0.6 million troops of different background and sects, uniformly knit and working together. Hats off to Pakistan Armed Forces.

 

[YeBeWarned]

Im just glad there is no sectarian divide in Military, now i know why extremism is not advocated in Army. Real Islam ? so is there an un-real islam also? You know what makes a person muslim, so dont ask me. Those who submit to Allah, also submit to Muhammad. Muslims and Military does keep to one Allah. I am relieved that things are much straighter in military, not as confusing as in your post.

You are not getting my point , so lets leave it at that

Why is this going into a sectarian discussion?

Its not a sectarian debate sir, we are just trying to understand why there are different slogans and why some selective companion names are used as war cry while others were neglected , nothing serious

 

[jaibi]

Sir, you've to understand military culture in order to know that. Each unit has their own culture, takes their own inspiration and translates that into intangible forms of cultural mores - take for instance the Marines of the US, who call themselves 'Tip of the Spear', that means they're the toughest SoBs you'd face in battle and they want every Marine to know that as well. Similarly, when a unit is idealizing a figure from Islamic history, they're emulating their battle philosophy and SSG's culture is quite variant. There are units who're like screw your tactics, let's see who's got the bigger balls! Kill me if you can! I will if you don't! Then there are units who're like, I shall be surgical in your destruction, kind sir

Its not a sectarian debate sir, we are just trying to understand why there are different slogans and why some selective companion names are used as war cry while others were neglected , nothing serious