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Panama leak Case Proceedings - JIT Report, News, Updates And Discussion

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In real world If you accuse someone, you better be prepared to back it up with evidence, otherwise you are in jail for making fa
I accuse you for corruption without evidence. Onus is on you to prove your innocent even though i am the one who accused you should back it up with evidence is not asked..

if you accuse me of corruption, then it's my responsibility to clear my image especially if I am head of state. Any reputable person's top priority would be to clear his image. If I am clean & haven't done anything then i wouldn't be afraid of presenting myself for accountability.

there were evidences, offshore account details that's why SC took notice on it. If the evidences weren't solid enough this case would have been proceeded like other corruption cases not on daily basis.

Shareef family is not above the law. This the third time they are ruling Pakistan still their assets are not declared. It is their moral responsibility to clear their name in Panama case.
 
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You are good at twisting words. In corruption cases, you are not presumed guilty automatically until you fail to provide evidence of purchases with white income. Court determines guilty only after reviewing the money trail or lack of. This is the norm in most countries and law can ask for money trail for any asset at any given time.

Anyone who has done anything illegal should be punished, be it Imran or Nawaz or your mistress Marryam.

How difficult is it for Nawaz and Co to show 1993 bank wires from their taxed incomes in Pak to the accounts of offshore companies and bank wires from those companies to the sellers of those apartments???

Did you or did you not entertain the notice of 'presume guilty until proven innocent' which goes against the fundamental of justice system? You are building on the wrong foundation with begin with.
 
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I know a family whose house was raided by police here and £800k cash was found and confiscated.

They had to provide detailed proof of where that money was from and what purpose, to satisfy the police for it to be released/returned. Police cross checked and verified source of every £ before returning that cash.

Another person got busted with £64k cash from his house and as he didn't provide any verifiable evidence that money was never returned. And this guy is known to be a dodgy dealer.

You are trying to fool people (yourself only) that there's no law and such law is Imran Khan's wishful thinking and whatnot.

Let's see what the British authorities do with these apartments after SC verdict.
 
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if you accuse me of corruption, then it's my responsibility to clear my image especially if I am head of state. If I am clean & haven't done anything then i wouldn't be afraid of presenting myself for accountability.

there were evidences, offshore account details that's why SC took notice on it. If the evidences weren't solid enough this case would have been proceeded like other corruption cases not on daily basis.

Shareef family is not above the law. This the third time they are ruling Pakistan still their assets are not declared. It is their moral responsibility to clear their name in Panama case.

It is not your responsibility to clear your image, rather it is the responsibility of the accusers to back with evidence to validate their accusation. Otherwise, we will never hear the end of allegation everyday, every hours, every moments. The system will crash. That's why in the real world where the accusers can be fined with grave consequence, life imprisonment to death if necessary if they cannot provide the evidence. Don't know which world you live in.


Take a look at Blasphemy law. It is happening right in front of your eyes where the accused ones are the one who are urged to prove their innocent even though the allegation were cast against them without evidence to begin with while the accusers get away without proving with concrete evidence to back with.

If someone accuses me for anything, i will not prove myself as it is my right to claim 'presume innocent until proven guilty' which means those who accused me will have to prove or pay the ultimate price. This is the system we live and are part of it.
 
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Did you or did you not entertain the notice of 'presume guilty until proven innocent' which goes against the fundamental of justice system? You are building on the wrong foundation with begin with.

You should consult a lawyer for a lesson in anti money laundering and financial corruption laws. Your fundamentals are grossly misplaced.

It is not your responsibility to clear your image, rather it is the responsibility of the accusers to back with evidence to validate their accusation. Otherwise, we will never hear the end of allegation everyday, every hours, every moments.
The system will crash.

This is no longer PTI petition, it's a Supreme Court Suo Moto case.

Maybe you need a lesson in what a Suo Moto is as well?
 
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You should consult a lawyer for a lesson in anti money laundering and financial corruption laws. Your fundamentals are grossly misplaced.



This is no longer PTI petition, it's a Supreme Court Suo Moto case.

Maybe you need a lesson in what a Suo Moto is as well?

You can accuse anyone with money laundering and financial corruption and get away without proving with concrete evidence or paper money trail or something concrete?

I take it you also agree with the idea of Blasphemy law given it governs based on 'presume guilty until proven innocent'.

It is not about Supreme Court since that is for another topic.

The topic right now is to dispel the false notion that you entertain 'presume guilty until proven innocent' at this moment. So you agree with the protocol of Blasphemy law?
 
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You missed the point. :)

As you have mentioned, SC will depend on "others" to conduct the investigations. Other departments and institutions. It will be transparency of those that will matter. How unbiased that commission remains, how unbiased those institutions will be, will the panama leak journalists be summoned? will they come? will they stand by what they said and share the proof? Will that be admissible in court? If they back out what can Pakistan ACTUALLY do about that? :)

SO MANY THINGS that can go wrong. My point is that stating that an unbiased court have taken matter into its own hands wont mean the end of it all.
Sir,
As far as transparency is concerned there re limits to that. If SC and its judges are not unbiased then there is no institution or person on this planet. We have to have faith and trust on what we have. God will provide ultimate judgement but that is when the time comes.

We have been seeing and hearing what many learned retired judges are saying that SC might form a judicial commission or ask other departments to investigate, but if we look at some of the remarks of the Judges then they might not take this option. This could be one of the reasons that the court would hear this case on daily basis, which could be interpreted like this that the court is thinking something big which might surprise many.

Now to answer your questions regarding journalists of Panama leaks

1) SC can summon any one. IMPO They should be summoned as they were the whistle blowers.
How the court looks into this is upto the learned judges.

2) If summoned they would have to come or send their legal representative.

3) If they do not stand on what they said they would loose all their credibility and also liable to defamation suites not just from Pakistan but other States.

4) They publish a detail report which is public document.

5) Admissibility of pubic documents as well as others is bases on case to case basis and discretionary powers .
defecto decision can continue by

6) SC can still give an ex-party ruling.
 
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You can accuse anyone with money laundering and financial corruption laws and get away without proving with concrete evidence or paper money trail or something concrete?

I take it you also agree with the idea of Blasphemy law given it governs based on 'presume guilty until proven innocent'.

It is not about Supreme Court since that is for another topic.

The topic right now is to dispel the false notion that you entertain 'presume guilty until proven innocent' at this moment. So you agree with the protocol of Blasphemy law?

No difference between you and Hallucinating Hindu trolls here. You've now brought Blasphemy Law in this. You are in Panama Case thread!

PTI went to SC, and SC turned that petition in to a Suo Moto. Now it's up to Nawaz and Co to give verifiable sources of income and money trail for purchase of their assets. It's not rocket science. This is not a civil case!
 
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I know a family whose house was raided by police here and £800k cash was found and confiscated.

They had to provide detailed proof of where that money was from and what purpose, to satisfy the police for it to be released/returned. Police cross checked and verified source of every £ before returning that cash.

Another person got busted with £64k cash from his house and as he didn't provide any verifiable evidence that money was never returned. And this guy is known to be a dodgy dealer.

You are trying to fool people (yourself only) that there's no law and such law is Imran Khan's wishful thinking and whatnot.

Let's see what the British authorities do with these apartments after SC verdict.

Clearly you are not familiar with police system. The only way police can raid if they have warrant. I am guessing they had concrete evidence or foundation to base on which earned the warrant for search and raid to carry the police legal raid.

Without search and raid warrant, it is illegal for police to conduct search and raid. That's why police is not raiding your home at this moment. :D

No difference between you and Hallucinating Hindu trolls here. You've now brought Blasphemy Law in this. You are in Panama Case thread!

PTI went to SC, and SC turned that petition in to a Suo Moto. Now it's up to Nawaz and Co to give verifiable sources of income and money trail for purchase of their assets. It's not rocket science. This is not a civil case!

But the principle remains the same. You entertain the idea of 'presume guilty until proven innocent', and that's what Blasphemy law is based on.
 
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But the principle remains the same. You entertain the idea of 'presume guilty until proven innocent', and that's what Blasphemy law is based on.

Blasphemy and asset purchase / financial transactions are very different - and you are trying to link the two. But you are just a Marryam troll and I've just about had enough of you.

I don't agree with the Blasphemy Law However I am in total agreement with laws covering corruption and money laundering.
 
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Blasphemy and asset purchase / financial transactions are very different - and you are trying to link the two. But you are just a Marryam troll and I've just about had enough of you.

I don't agree with the Blasphemy Law However I am in total agreement with laws covering corruption and money laundering.

You entertain the notion 'presume guilty until proven innocent' or not? :D
 
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You entertain the notion 'presume guilty until proven innocent' or not? :D

First find me that exact phrase in Pak's constitution and NAB laws!!

I'm in agreement with what's in the Constitution and NAB laws, and SC will judge based on such laws already present.

Until then, please don't quote me again.
 
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First find me that exact phrase in Pak's constitution and NAB laws!!

I'm in agreement with what's in the Constitution and NAB laws, and SC will judge based on such laws already present.

Until then, please don't quote me again.

You are the one who endorse that ridiculous notion 'presume guilty until proven innocent' which goes against the fundamental of justice system including Pakistan's constitution and NAB laws.

You don't agree with Blasphemy law, yet you entertain with the ridiculous notion 'presume guilty until proven innocent' which is what Blasphemy law is based on. I think you are confused like u-turn Imran Khan.

I am beginning to think i might be wasting my time with you. It is better to let you carry on with your delusional world, and at the same time respect your request not to quote you again. I guess it is win-win situation unless you want me to explain what is win-win. :D
 
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Clearly you are not familiar with police system. The only way police can raid if they have warrant. I am guessing they had concrete evidence or foundation to base on which earned the warrant for search and raid to carry the police legal raid.

Without search and raid warrant, it is illegal for police to conduct search and raid. That's why police is not raiding your home at this moment. :D



But the principle remains the same. You entertain the idea of 'presume guilty until proven innocent', and that's what Blasphemy law is based on.

The burden of proof is on the State bank, related banks, FBR an other state institutions ,
The accused (PM) will be guilty if above institutions fail to provide an input that matches claims of the accused(PM).
Burden of proof is on the accused as mentioned below on NAB ordinance.



9 (a) A holder of a public office, or any other person, is said to commit or to have committed the offence of corruption and corrupt practices-
(iv) if he by corrupt, dishonest, or illegal means, obtains or seeks to obtain for himself, or for his spouse 3* or dependents or any other person, any property, valuable thing, or pecuniary advantage; or

(v) if he or any of his dependents or benamidar owns, possesses, or has 4[acquired] right or title in any [“assets or holds irrevocable power of attorney in respect of any assets] orpecuniary resources disproportionate to his known sources of income, which he cannot 1[reasonably] account for [or maintains a standard of living beyond that which is commensurate with his sources of income]; or

(vi) 2[if he misuses his authority so as to gain any benefit or favour for himself or any other person, or 3[renders or attempts to render] 4[or willfully fails to exercise his authority to prevent the grant, or rendition of any undue benefit or favour which he could have prevented by exercising his authority];

(vii) if he has issued any directive, policy, or any SRO (Statutory Regulatory Order) or any other order which grants or [attempts to grant] any [undue] concession or benefit in any taxation matter or law or otherwise so as to benefit himself or any relative or associate or a benamidar 1[or any other person]


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14. (a) Where in any trail of [an offence under clauses (i), (ii), (iii) and (iv) of sub-section (a) of section 9] it is proved that an accused person has accepted or obtained, or has agreed to accept or attempted to obtain, for himself or for any other person any gratification, other than legal remuneration, or any valuable thing, or any pecuniary advantage from a person or any agent of a person, for any favour shown or promised to be shown by the accused, it shall be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, that he accepted or obtained, or agreed to accept or attempted to obtain, that gratification or that valuable thing or pecuniary advantage for, himself or some other person, as the case may be, as a motive or a reward such as is specified in section 161 to 163 of the Pakistan Penal Code, 1860 (Act XLV of 1860), or, as the case may be, without consideration, or for a consideration which he, believed to be inadequate.

5[ (d) [In any trial] of an offence under [clauses (vi) and (vii) of section 9], the burden of proof that he used his authority, or issued any directive, or authorised the issuance of any policy or statutory rule or order (SRO), or made any grant or allowed any concession, in the public interest, fairly, justly, and for the advancement of the purpose of the enactment under which the authority was used, directive or policy or rule or order was issued or grant was made or concession was allowed shall lie on [the accused], and in the absence of such proof the accused shall be guilty of the offence, and his conviction shall not be invalid by the reason that it is based solely on such presumption:]


http://www.nab.gov.pk/Downloads/nao.asp#Corruption_12
 
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Sir,
As far as transparency is concerned there re limits to that. If SC and its judges are not unbiased then there is no institution or person on this planet. We have to have faith and trust on what we have. God will provide ultimate judgement but that is when the time comes.

We have been seeing and hearing what many learned retired judges are saying that SC might form a judicial commission or ask other departments to investigate, but if we look at some of the remarks of the Judges then they might not take this option. This could be one of the reasons that the court would hear this case on daily basis, which could be interpreted like this that the court is thinking something big which might surprise many.

Now to answer your questions regarding journalists of Panama leaks

1) SC can summon any one. IMPO They should be summoned as they were the whistle blowers.
How the court looks into this is upto the learned judges.

2) If summoned they would have to come or send their legal representative.

3) If they do not stand on what they said they would loose all their credibility and also liable to defamation suites not just from Pakistan but other States.

4) They publish a detail report which is public document.

5) Admissibility of pubic documents as well as others is bases on case to case basis and discretionary powers .
defecto decision can continue by

6) SC can still give an ex-party ruling.
If you do not mind may i ask you something?

Do you read the complete post with a calm head before hitting that reply button? :P

I mean, sawal mashriq jawab maghrib :D

Bahi jan, i am not saying that the SC or judges are biased on unbiased. I dont know any of them personally!! What i was saying was:

As you have mentioned, SC will depend on "others" to conduct the investigations. Other departments and institutions. It will be transparency of those that will matter. How unbiased that commission remains, how unbiased those institutions will be
(Wait, do not hit the reply button. Please continue reading)

Not the SC but the institutions that will actually be conducting the investigations. Or are you saying that an unbiased judge himself will open account books and match the logs? I am talking about the institutions who will be given that task.

(Wait, do not hit the reply button. Please continue reading)
As for the SC calling panama leak journalists, you say SC can summon ANYONE!! NOT FOREIGN REPORTERS of Panama papers!!!! They are not bound by our law or our courts myray dost. :) That answers the point 2 to 6 as well. You are talking as if those reporters were/are Pakistani citizens who will have to obey what SC is saying. :)

In the end i will like to say a very important thing,, WAIT, DO NOT HIT THAT REPLY BUTTON. Go through the post again and SEE what is being said. Read it again and then yuo may get a clearer picture.
 
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