Pakistan's JF 17 fighter Jets pose serious threat to Indian Air Force entire Mig fleet: Intl. expert

[CHACHA"G"]

Mirrages are going to replace by F16s ... Pakistan will be going for top level fighter after thunder ...

And from where we will get those F-16 , currently we have 100+ Mirages to replace . I don't think so we can have or US will sell us F-16s,,,, Only option is J-10C(customize to our needs) .
And let me tell you one thing , As soon as we replace our Mirages with J-10 or any other advance birds , USA will start selling us F-16s , Now in current situation when they know PAF is in bad shape they are using F-16 against us we call it arm-twisting.
And one more thing , who said J-10 with delta wings is not top level fighter ?

 

[denel]

Which BVR missile is integrated to PG?


Highly questionable. You won't find any instance where it carries a BVR missile.

Even assuming that it has upgraded its Grifo, keep in mind that the nose cone is smaller than that of Bis/Bisons.

True, all pictures are with IR types but none with any type of bvrs. while radar may be capable but no missiles available. Will leave to others to feed input.

 

[Trango Towers]

Hi,

Amongst conventional aircraft---the SU30 is not afraid to show its RCS---.

It was designed with the russian mentality of " right in your face " kind of thing---.

This aircraft is designed to fight all and sundry aircraft of generations of 4.5 and below---.

The most brutal tool that this aircraft has the ability to launch 4---6 BVR missiles at a single target in a volley---a feat no other aircraft in the industry can accomplish---.

When they built that size---the russian designers knew what they were going to manufacture---the size was just not a fluke---there was combat science behind it---.

So---take that size seriously---.

That may be true however in every conflict Russian made equipment has come out 2nd best. Indians are no different. The plane in Russian hands with Russian tactics and mentality may perform differently

 

[randomradio]

That's true however if BVR AAM's of JF-17 also pierce SU 30 MKI's skin and bring it down, that will mark a serious dent on invincibility myth of MKI. With close proximity of bases(and FOB's) of both air forces, the chances of air combat at a stone's throw away is highly probable. This will invite tactics from both sides, JF-17's encouraging WVR combat and enacting tactics to get as close as possible to MKI where as the MKI preferring the volley of 4-6 BVR's to ensure a high percentage kill probability from a distance.

Why would you want to get close to the MKI when WVR is also the MKI's domain? Even the Rafales have struggled in WVR.

Your most effective tactic, similar to the French, is to fire off BVR missiles, turn around and run and pray the missiles do the job. The closer you get, the MKI's bigger radar, better performance and greater missile inventory will only put the JF-17 in greater disadvantage.

The interesting factor is any or one of each types of IAF aircraft getting downed by JF-17, gives a good milestone to JF-17 even if its own air-combat record is not top-notch. JF-17 downing Rafale, MKI, Mig-29, Mirage 2000, LCA, Mig-21 etc, even if one of each of these types, shows JF-17 as an aircraft capable of taking on multiple adversary platforms in war and puts different types of aircraft kills under its belt.

I don't think the PAF will be that worried about such things in the middle of a shooting war with India.

Especially since the next war we fight will be the last war Pakistan fights.

 

[Inception-06]

That's true however if BVR AAM's of JF-17 also pierce SU 30 MKI's skin and bring it down, that will mark a serious dent on invincibility myth of MKI. With close proximity of bases(and FOB's) of both air forces, the chances of air combat at a stone's throw away is highly probable. This will invite tactics from both sides, JF-17's encouraging WVR combat and enacting tactics to get as close as possible to MKI where as the MKI preferring the volley of 4-6 BVR's to ensure a high percentage kill probability from a distance.

Brilliant, that's one of the PAFs major tactics, the same rule of war we can write for the Army on the ground!

In the Same Situation, the NVA-DDR East Army and the German-NatoWestern Army found themselves during the cold war, because of short Distances the DDR NVA did keep on using all his older equipment in the air and on ground: The Prime task of the equipment was to track/find the target and hit or destroy it, when you lose your own entire squadron and you could kill 5 jets of the enemy Air Force, the mission was accomplished. Because a little and agile Force (like the Wehrmacht; Isreal Army, Vietnam NVA Army, Pakistan Army) could prove again that it can affect heavy casualties to the enemy Force. If the war is won or lost, cant be judged by casualties, see the entire Syrian Army is practically destroyed, but on the ground, they still rule their earth.
But all that safes not the Pakistani Air Force from that it has totally failed to induct an equal Airplane to the Indian SU-30MKI and Rafale aircraft. The Jf-17 is not equal to the J-10.

J-10C: An upgraded version of J-10B, it is equipped with an indigenous Active electronically scanned array (AESA) fire-control radar and is equipped with PL-10 and new long range PL-15 infrared-homing air-to-air missile (AAM)

 

[KapitaanAli]

Brilliant, that's one of the PAFs major tactics, the same rule of war we can write for the Army on the ground!

Close proximity of PAF bases puts them in a big disadvantage.
Unless PAF fighters gain altitude before reaching border, they'll all be shot down. JF17 is at a big disadvantage here since a lot of its fuel will be spent flying away from the border to gain altitude. And then they'll have to face fighters which are at an even higher altitude.

 

[araz]

Kiyon? Dual seater fly kar raha hay kay nahi kar raha? Dual seater kay specs block 3 kay specs jaysay hain key nahi hain?

This is intellectual dishonesty. There is a major difference between a dual seater block 2 and block 3. Dont try to justify that which is not there. You will only lose credibility.
A

 

[Hamza913]

Useless article.

Puts things in simple terms for the less military-savy among us.

 

[Storm Force]

YOUR JF17 is GREAT = And YOU HAVE 100 such BIRDS now = well done PAKISTAN.

But WAR is not about Individual Planes ITS ABOUT THE SYSTEM an the COMBINATION

THE SYSTEM AND THE COMBINATION in india is STUNNING & EFFECTIVE

One is a massive Air dominance fighter with TVC massive radar 12 BVRS and IRST and HMD and brute power and range.. IT can track 20 thunders in one go and engage 6 at same time from 120km

The other is small agile small RCS but packed with advanced Israel avionics radars an HMD and Derby BVRS
dog fighting dream


THEN this combo will be joined by another INDIAN SYSTEM next YEAR

NIGHTMARE SCENARIO

The FORMIABLRE rafale & mirage2000/5 combo

Armed with AESA meterores mica the FRENCH SYSTEMS are incredible efficient and lethal


THE MIGS ARE HISTORY ..................JF17 has To BEAT THE ABOVE SYSTEMS

Currently THEY have no chance......... UNLESS you MORPH the JF17 into a Gripen NG or J10B/C it will be too little to outdated to face off THE INDIAN COMBOS of TODAY and NEXT YEAR

 

[Hamza913]

Especially since the next war we fight will be the last war Pakistan fights.

 

[he-man]

YOUR JF17 is GREAT = And YOU HAVE 100 such BIRDS now = well done PAKISTAN.

But WAR is not about Individual Planes ITS ABOUT THE SYSTEM an the COMBINATION

THE SYSTEM AND THE COMBINATION in india is STUNNING & EFFECTIVE

One is a massive Air dominance fighter with TVC massive radar 12 BVRS and IRST and HMD and brute power and range.. IT can track 20 thunders in one go and engage 6 at same time from 120km

The other is small agile small RCS but packed with advanced Israel avionics radars an HMD and Derby BVRS
dog fighting dream


THEN this combo will be joined by another INDIAN SYSTEM next YEAR

NIGHTMARE SCENARIO

The FORMIABLRE rafale & mirage2000/5 combo

Armed with AESA meterores mica the FRENCH SYSTEMS are incredible efficient and lethal


THE MIGS ARE HISTORY ..................JF17 has To BEAT THE ABOVE SYSTEMS

Currently THEY have no chance......... UNLESS you MORPH the JF17 into a Gripen NG or J10B/C it will be too little to outdated to face off THE INDIAN COMBOS of TODAY and NEXT YEAR

Indian Mod is rather stupid.
The MIG-29K has horrible avionics for a frontline carrier fighter.The radar is a simple mechanical slotted array,imagine that in 2018 with no plans for further upgradation.They need to be upgraded to maybe fga-29 or 35 radar if the development has been completed.Russians are pretty behind in the aesa development front so maybe thats why no upgrade plan has been formulated.

Same goes for mki our frontline jet flying with an outdated PESA in bars.Should be upgraded to at least irbis e PESA if not an AESA.

Thank god they selected el/m 2052 for mk1a,hopefully it would be retrofitted to the mk1 with some modification.

Pakistan cant fight a war really,it will go bankrupt within a few days.This is the cold truth.
Just like india can fight maybe 10-15 days with china before running out of supplies and cash.

And if it does occur pakistan will be badly hammered,it just has no real navy and will be overwhelmed in the air.The number of fighters that are actually worth (jf-17 and f-16) are far too little to make much difference.We will suffer major damage,no doubt but the outcome will be same.Pakistan simply is too small and limited to win a war.

But no one is stupid enough to attack when risk of collateral damage is so high....so neither india will risk attacking pakistan or china will risk attacking india.

 

[randomradio]

Indian Mod is rather stupid.
The MIG-29K has horrible avionics for a frontline carrier fighter.The radar is a simple mechanical slotted array,imagine that in 2018 with no plans for further upgradation.They need to be upgraded to maybe fga-29 or 35 radar if the development has been completed.Russians are pretty behind in the aesa development front so maybe thats why no upgrade plan has been formulated.

Same goes for mki our frontline jet flying with an outdated PESA in bars.Should be upgraded to at least irbis e PESA if not an AESA.

Thank god they selected el/m 2052 for mk1a,hopefully it would be retrofitted to the mk1 with some modification.

Mig-29K will get Uttam the next decade, it already uses an Indian EW suite. When it was purchased, an operational AESA wasn't available.

M-2000 will also get an Uttam derivative in time. It's expected to stay in service until 2045.

MKI will get a new AESA radar from NIIP. Contract to be signed soon.

Mk1 will only be 20 jets. It won't get an AESA for another 15-20 years. We need the Mk1 with the current radar because we have to perfect the software on it, which is best possible when it's still operational. An operational conventional radar is also a feather in our cap, best not remove it.

Uncomfortable truth?

The first day, no navy left.
The second day, no air force left.
The third day, the IA crosses the border with full naval and air superiority.

What do you think the outcome will be?

Nukes? You have too few for it. And without a conventional force left, it ultimately will not matter. India will have some holes in the ground that will need clearing up and Pakistan will be split into 4 states.

Conclusion: Pakistan will no longer do anything that will threaten its survival.

 

[he-man]

Mig-29K will get Uttam the next decade, it already uses an Indian EW suite. When it was purchased, an operational AESA wasn't available.

M-2000 will also get an Uttam derivative in time. It's expected to stay in service until 2045.

MKI will get a new AESA radar from NIIP. Contract to be signed soon.

Mk1 will only be 20 jets. It won't get an AESA for another 15-20 years. We need the Mk1 with the current radar because we have to perfect the software on it, which is best possible when it's still operational. An operational conventional radar is also a feather in our cap, best not remove it.

I doubt russians will allow any other radar on migs other than phazotron ones it currently holds.
Niip really has just one aesa ie byelka(n036 radar) getting tested on su-57 itself.It hasent entered production yet so not sure what will the russians offer.
Going for irbis-e pesa is not worth it in my opinion.Lets see what options are on table.

 

[Hamza913]

Pakistan cant fight a war really,it will go bankrupt within a few days.This is the cold truth.
Just like india can fight maybe 10-15 days with china before running out of supplies and cash.

And if it does occur pakistan will be badly hammered,it just has no real navy and will be overwhelmed in the air.The number of fighters that are actually worth (jf-17 and f-16) are far too little to make much difference.We will suffer major damage,no doubt but the outcome will be same.Pakistan simply is too small and limited to win a war.

But no one is stupid enough to attack when risk of collateral damage is so high....so neither india will risk attacking pakistan or china will risk attacking india.

https://www.oneindia.com/india/not-enough-stock-of-ammunition-to-fight-10-day-war-cag-2502289.html

http://www.newsweek.com/indian-india-nuclear-submarine-ballistic-missile-sank-hatch-left-open-777804

http://www.janes.com/article/72779/cag-criticises-low-serviceability-of-iaf-s-ilyushin-fleet

https://worldview.stratfor.com/article/indias-air-force-has-no-shortage-shortfalls

http://www.defenseworld.net/news/16...satisfactory__Government_Auditor#.WvXQbqTt7IU

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...lays-plague-projects/articleshow/53371140.cms

http://indianexpress.com/article/in...ng-loc-in-pak-firing-since-2001-army-3738096/

https://tribune.com.pk/story/979201/pakistan-army-wins-gold-in-exercise-cambrian-patrol-in-uk/

https://www.dawn.com/news/1297112

http://www.asian-defence.net/2012/1...rsonic-Carrier-Killer-Missile-For-JF-17.html/

http://www.asian-defence.net/2011/06/pakistani-f-16s-shoot-down-raf.html/

https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/Nuclearweaponswhohaswhat

The first day, no navy left.
The second day, no air force left.
The third day, the IA crosses the border with full naval and air superiority.

What do you think the outcome will be?

Nukes? You have too few for it. And without a conventional force left, it ultimately will not matter. India will have some holes in the ground that will need clearing up and Pakistan will be split into 4 states.

Conclusion: Pakistan will no longer do anything that will threaten its survival.

 

[GumNaam]

https://www.oneindia.com/india/not-enough-stock-of-ammunition-to-fight-10-day-war-cag-2502289.html

http://www.newsweek.com/indian-india-nuclear-submarine-ballistic-missile-sank-hatch-left-open-777804

http://www.janes.com/article/72779/cag-criticises-low-serviceability-of-iaf-s-ilyushin-fleet

https://worldview.stratfor.com/article/indias-air-force-has-no-shortage-shortfalls

http://www.defenseworld.net/news/16...satisfactory__Government_Auditor#.WvXQbqTt7IU

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...lays-plague-projects/articleshow/53371140.cms

http://indianexpress.com/article/in...ng-loc-in-pak-firing-since-2001-army-3738096/

https://tribune.com.pk/story/979201/pakistan-army-wins-gold-in-exercise-cambrian-patrol-in-uk/

https://www.dawn.com/news/1297112

http://www.asian-defence.net/2012/1...rsonic-Carrier-Killer-Missile-For-JF-17.html/

http://www.asian-defence.net/2011/06/pakistani-f-16s-shoot-down-raf.html/

https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/Nuclearweaponswhohaswhat

DUDE?!

what're you doing??? the indians are lost asleep in their lala land that Pakistan nor China can fight india. let them sleep man...so rude of you to try and wake them up! let them enjoy their gobar induced dillusions.