Pakistan's intelligence ready to split with CIA

[Solomon2]

Hey, are the wheels are starting to grind into reverse?

Islamabad—Former Foreign Minister, Shah Mehmood Qureshi has blamed the Punjab government for mishandling of Raymond Davis issue by registering the FIR without consulting Foreign Office.

“They (the Punjab Government) preferred the local politics over the national interest without sensing the heat of the matter,” Qureshi said in interview he gave to an Urdu language weekly magazine.

The Punjab government should have contacted Foreign Office before registering a case against Raymond Davis, the self-confessed killer of two Pakistanis, he added. According to the weekly, Shah Mehmood Qureshi said that Mian Raza Rabbani was witness to the fact that he had briefed ministers and other high-ups about the intensity of the matter. Commenting on the issue of custody of this case’s file, he insisted that it belonged to the Foreign Office and not the Interior Ministry. —Online

So the Davis "case" belongs to the F.O. and the local gov't violated proper procedures. Pretty much what the Americans have been saying, yes?

 

[Jackdaws]

@Solomon2,

America is trying to rouse up the FATA and Khyber-Pakhtoonkhwa region so that it can merge with Afghanistan. This is what I believe. Proposals had already been put in place much earlier by US Intel to Balkanize Pakistan and therefore neutralize its nuclear arsenal (see what the US did in CIS countries).



They completely underestimated the Pakistani blood in their veins. The people in those regions have always called themselves Pakistanis first and the so-called insurgencies are only supported by a tiny minority. And now their agent was caught red-handed.

Pakistan does not need to shake fists at anyone. We know how to use them and trust me when I say this: The USA can not afford a conflict with Pakistan at any cost. Forget WoT. That is nothing at all when it comes to Pakistan's real might.

You do realize that the balkanization of the USSR actually created major headaches about the Soviet nuclear arsenal and it falling into wrong hands. USA is doing everything it can to PREVENT the balkanization of Pakistan. From an Indian perspective - do you really think we want 2-3 hostile nations on our border? If India was facing the same situation - would you want 2-3 hostile Indian states at your border? Isn't it hard enough to deal with 1?
Seeing that India is busy trying to raise anti-Pakistan sentiments in Balochistan, the US must have thought that this was the right time to raise tensions in NW Pakistan.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

the CIA needs ISI as long as they are in Afghanistan --Davis or no Davis. It isnt like the 2 are giving eachother silent treatment. Fact of the matter is yes, there is some distrust. It isnt necessarily between the organizations as a whole. There are times when Mossad and CIA are at odds with eachother.


i see a lot of naiive, comical posts here. People need to familiarize themselves with how intelligence agencies operate. They arent laundromats, they arent diplomats. It's a totally different game altogether.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

You're deep, deep, in conspiracy theory territory. Do you see a way to work to get yourself out? That can be done by seeking to confirm or deny as much information yourself as possible, or seeking answers to such questions as, "How did these credible sources know more now than they did then?"

I am not stating it as a confirmed and valid info, Still much of it is suspected. Given the asymetric engagements of the CIA's covert ops in Pakistan things like these might probably occur.Ordinary public never gets to know what happens in the murky world of espionage...However Raymond Davis's links with TTP speak volumes of CIA's active contact with such factions...!!!

IS your Intell comitte aware of all this ,Remember TTP has been declared as a terrorist Org by the US itself after when the jordanian double agent went rogue..!!!

 

[nightcrawler]

Latest documentary regarding US/Allied failures in Iraq in particular & MiddleEast in General
DefenceDog: Secrets Of Iraq-Insurgency
DefenceDog: Secrets Of Iraq-Awakening

In this episode BBC unravels the civil fight for dominance in Iraq between the two militant parties Sunni & Shia Militia. The former backed by the Al-Qaeda & the latter armed & supported covertly by Iranian regime. Both parties besides attacking US & the allies are also interlocked in bloody battles of ideology & religious fanaticism. In either case the innocent civilians have to face the intimidation, slaughter & unprecedented carnage not at the hands of foreigners but from their own Iraqi regiments!!

Shia militia had now infiltrated virtually every domestic ministry & their inclusion in the civil Iraqi police had turned out to be a nightmare for the Sunni population of Iraq. Same too can be said about the Al-Qaeda backed Sunni insurgents who by now want to make Sunni populated areas of Anbar purified for Shia populates!!

British also had been defeated back in Basra when they reached a secret agreement with Shia militia to let them leave without being attacked in lieu of full control to Shia armed forces which in theory were called Iraqi Police. Thus, were abandoned the Iraqi populace by the very people who beforehand called themselves Liberators.

 

[monitor]

Watching the ally

Yet another question arises: how good are we really when it comes to what goes on along our western border, among our extremists and the Afghans?

Zafar Hilaly

Those manning the ISI and those running the government are essentially from the same pod. And yet, while the former is considered among the best in the world, the latter is arguably the worst. All that changed the other day when a "senior intelligence official" in a rare bout of candour confessed that our spooks were clueless about Raymand Davis and CIA-contracted spies like him in Pakistan.
Being oblivious to scores of spies working for the CIA is inexcusable. Expecting the CIA to keep us informed of the identity and the nature of the work of its sleuths in Pakistan is delusional. It's like joining the navy to see the world and then complaining that all one really gets to see is the sea. The CIA's ability to fool friends and foes alike, including its own leaders, as the farce over the non-existent weapons of mass destruction in Iraq showed, is infinite. Good spies would have heeded Leon Trotsky's advice: "An ally has to be watched just like an enemy."
If we can be caught napping on CIA operatives, when it is clear how fussed the US is about our nukes, a bigger question arises: how much better are we when it comes to what India is up to, given that RAW is of even greater concern than the CIA?
Yet another question arises: how good are we really when it comes to what goes on along our western border, among our extremists and the Afghans?
These questions inexorably arise considering our ignorance of the presence of CIA operatives when our relationship with them, notwithstanding the use of the term "allies," has been expedient and unstable from the start.
It is, of course, good to know that we are mounting our own operations to gather intelligence on the CIA's counterterrorism operations. These should begin by keeping a close tab on the 851 "diplomats" that the US has stationed in Pakistan, and for whom it will no doubt claim diplomatic immunity whenever their dangerous antics stand exposed.
Notwithstanding the welcome candour of the "senior intelligence official" and the general impression of competence that the people have about the ISI, it may well be that this is not the case and that reform and overhaul is needed. For example, whether it has become too big and bloated to be professionally on top of its job, and whether, because of its role in politics, it can be as sharp and focused as it should be on its intelligence work. If that is the case, we had better start now, and with a sense of urgency. We live in a dangerous neighbourhood and the last thing that we want in such a situation is an intelligence agency that does not meet the highest professional standards of performance.
On occasions what the "senior intelligence official" had to say the other day sounded naive like, for example, when he seemed to be objecting to the fact that the CIA was using pressure tactics to free Davis. What did he expect? For the CIA to leave Davis to the tender mercies of the Punjab police? So great has been the CIA's eagerness to get Davis out and prevent his interrogation that even the hapless Obama was prevailed upon to lie about Davis being a diplomat. One wonders when Obama will finally get a grip on his military and the CIA. Thus far, he has been dragooned into endorsing Petraeus's failing "surge" strategy in Afghanistan, the intensification of the massively counterproductive drone operations in Pakistan, at least in the long run, and now the CIA's antics to get Davis released. Even the Cold War warrior-brothers Allen and John Dulles did not seem to have as much influence on Eisenhower as today's generals and sleuths have over Obama. Whatever the "change" that Obama campaigned for, it has been a change for the worse for our region.
But there is a silver lining to the controversy that has erupted. Our reaction to the CIA's duplicity will be a measured one. Ties will not be severed and collaboration against the greater enemy will continue. The point is to "read, mark, learn and inwardly digest" from the experience. We must learn from the public censure that has ensued, and rather than try and avoid, much less suppress it, devise better and more successful methods. This seems to be the spirit in which the "senior intelligence official" spoke, and it was a brave and novel manner of engaging with the public. It's also a welcome development because the opacity that had hitherto shrouded their views is lifting. This accords with the open society that Pakistan is becoming, to our lasting credit, because that is what we want and what democracy is all about.
Just when we were beginning to lose hope in the ability of civilians to manage their own affairs the confession by our brother in uniform showed that they are no better. Having sat in front of a retired general entrusted with running a public-sector cooperation (into the ground, as it happened) and be told-mind you, with a straight face-that he and his ilk are "a special breed," it's a relief to know that being "conned" or misled is not the monopoly of civilians. That said, there is every possibility that they will learn from their mistakes, which is more than can be said about our politicians.

The writer is a former ambassador of Paksitan. Email: charles123it@hotmail.com

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

^^
Its all due to this free hand given to CIA they roamed the streets like as if they are hunting down kurd in Baghdad .. There should have been some checks...!! The Mush Govt is much to be blamed for this, For how much fcking $$ those guys sold off many innocent just to be treated alike dead pigs at gitmo , No wonder the US supported that Dictor for 8 years.. How hypocryt and decietfull things could be and now they are justifying there vertion of democracy in ME and stirring the whole Pot , its all happening...!

 

[Solomon2]

I am not stating it as a confirmed and valid info, Still much of it is suspected. Given the asymetric engagements of the CIA's covert ops in Pakistan things like these might probably occur -

But you believe it anyway. I think that while you are attempting to grab comforting vapors the uncomfortable truths are slipping away from you. Then when the next issue pops up you'll do the same thing all over again...

 

[RazorMC]

That's the main issue. These people had been given permission to enter Pakistan which was the second mistake after selling an air-base to the US. Musharraf totally betrayed the country. I used to think highly of him but no more.
He really should be tried for treason.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

But you believe it anyway. I think that while you are attempting to grab comforting vapors the uncomfortable truths are slipping away from you. Then when the next issue pops up you'll do the same thing all over again...

The reason why i am force to belive that is you dont have any thing to back your assertion of the Whole US gov working is compleet transparent and the Intell comitte is aware of things. They fact is no one except the elites of langlay know about the covert ops. The fact that TTP has been declared as a Terrorist Out fit and Yet still CIA covertly maintains ties with it through hired Mercanaries speaks volumes of corruption in the accountability of CIA's action. CIA isnt supposed to be dealing with terrorist orgs specialy an org which has the label of killing 7 CIA operatives...!! There should have been a whistle blower but i fear all of them are forced to remain silence until the right time...!!!

 

[Solomon2]

The reason why i am force to belive -

Nobody "forces" you to believe - that's a choice you are making.

- you dont have any thing to back your assertion of the Whole US gov working is compleet transparent and the Intell comitte is aware of things. They fact is no one except the elites of langlay know about the covert ops.

I find out what I can to the best of my knowledge. I've tried to discover when I'm wrong and confirm when theories I don't like are correct. True, I have no secret connections. But while I can't prove President Obama isn't an alien shape-shifter from the Delta Quadrant I'm pretty sure he is human. Only those grasping at vapors believe otherwise.

The fact that TTP has been declared as a Terrorist Out fit and Yet still CIA covertly maintains ties with it through hired Mercanaries -

Davis? No reason a contractor can't be a diplomat, too.

- speaks volumes of corruption in the accountability of CIA's action. CIA isnt supposed to be dealing with terrorist orgs specialy an org which has the label of killing 7 CIA operatives -

Since 9-11 the CIA has convinced Congress that in order to get info on the bad guys out to attack America you have to deal with bad people. The ISI has long known this - just look at the career of that ISI colonel terrorists killed a few weeks ago.

 

[RazorMC]

I think intelligence agencies around the world maintain some sort of communication with even terrorist/banned organisations. It comes in handy if you want to negotiate or something.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

I think intelligence agencies around the world maintain some sort of communication with even terrorist/banned organisations. It comes in handy if you want to negotiate or something.

Yes this is correct, The CIA maintains contacts with TTP and maligns ISI for having any such. Even though the US gov declared TTP a banned out fit due to the incident of Jordanian double agent blowing off SEVEN(7) CIA operatives and also the failed time Saqure Bombing attempt was linked to TTP the CIA still has covert ties with TTP and no one in the US except the Elites of Langlay know about this.
Wonder what sort of contacts does CIA has with org which is BANNED by the US GOV.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

Since 9-11 the CIA has convinced Congress that in order to get info on the bad guys out to attack America you have to deal with bad people. The ISI has long known this - just look at the career of that ISI colonel terrorists killed a few weeks ago.

So when ISI has contacts with the Bad guys to secure Pakistan's National interests , there are many in washington who squeal about it , yet fail to see that there very own CIA works on the same lines like the CIA maintains contact with orgs regardless they are Banned or Not Banned and the case under consideration is CIA's active contacts with TTP which is responsible for major part of the havoc and destruction inside Pakistan which is quite concerning...!!!!

 

[Solomon2]

So when ISI has contacts with the Bad guys to secure Pakistan's National interests , there are many in washington who squeal about it , yet fail to see that there very own CIA works on the same lines -

I believe the feeling is that the ISI is working for a different goal than the CIA - that the two organizations may work in parallel in some ways, and in others are sharply divergent. Washington wants Pakistan and Afghanistan to stand by themselves, prosperous, free, and democratic, and is probably seeking some sort of collective security pact. The ISI, however, seems to see Afghanistan as a client state, its playground, its training zone for anti-India infiltrators (Pakistan confessed to the U.S. military in 2008 that it continued to support the Taliban for this reason.)

The ISI seems to reject a vision of an Afghanistan as an independent decision-maker when just a dozen years ago it was regarded as a Pakistani colony. And, I strongly suspect, the ISI doesn't like democratic accountability of its actions at all, for whenever the civilian government seeks it some "rogue" ISI project attacks India or creates some incident that puts Pakistan on a near-war footing and suspends all talk of reforms.

- the case under consideration is CIA's active contacts with TTP which is responsible for major part of the havoc and destruction inside Pakistan which is quite concerning...!!!!

The "case under consideration" is whether Davis' killing of two Pakistanis can be tried in a Pakistani court or not due to his level of diplomatic immunity. If you catch someone spying who has immunity all you can do is kick him out. You can't even keep him in jail while an investigation is going on.