Pakistan’s army is building an arsenal of ”tiny” nuclear weapons—and it’s going to backfire

[Signalian]

Indians are surely scared of Pakistani nukes and they should be. Pakistan has given an excellent response infact slap to indian cold start doctrine. Indian ignite cold start, Pakistan nukes.

So basically India had been told on its face that a nuclear war will start when India crosses the border.

 

[spsk]

Indians are surely scared of Pakistani nukes and they should be. Pakistan has given an excellent response infact slap to indian cold start doctrine. Indian ignite cold start, Pakistan nukes.

So basically India had been told on its face that a nuclear war will start when India crosses the border.

Why is it that only India is scared of Pakistan's Nuke ? Why not Pakistan is no scared of Indian's Nukes? My opinion - your dumb politicians and military are keeping you guys with Anti India drug

 

[Signalian]

Why is it that only India is scared of Pakistan's Nuke ? Why not Pakistan is no scared of Indian's Nukes? My opinion - your dumb politicians and military are keeping you guys with Anti India drug

Pakistan and Pakistanis dont lose their sleep over Indian nukes because firstly pakistan doesnt have any aggressive stances to nuke India, its a deterrent and used as defense. Indian Armed forces are most welcome to come and find out. secondly India hold an edge over man and material quantity so Pakistan is used to an enemy bigger in size since past 60 years plus. Thirdly, hindus of the world can be wiped out in a huge quantity due to nuke strikes on india, muslims are still abundant in many other muslim countries. Fourthly and most importantly, India cant fool around with Pakistan any more like cold start and other stupid plans that Indians want to try, also all indian aggressive and bullying plans to invade Pakistan have been stopped due to nukes, a reality India finds hard to digest. Which is why everywhere on this forum and generally in Indian ranks, Pakistani nukes are big hurdle to every Indian misadventure and a perfect slap on Indian face.

Your are entitled to your opinion, for me its a useless dead carcass.

 

[Alpha BeeTee]

India's nuclear weapons weren't against China although that was/ is the cover story. To figure out motives behind their ambitions one has to go back and read the statements coming out of India immediately after the test till Pakistan conducted its own. There was no mention of China in those statements and it focused on two points only 1) India has gained its rightful status in world's community 2) Pakistan will stand annihilated if it does not go into submission immediately.

With rise of nationalistic BJP, India felt they won't get any respect in the world unless they go nuclear. Nuclear weapons were used as means to attain a status. There wasn't any real threat to them. Status was to be used as an assertive (read hegemonic) regional policeman and then a global player. Pakistan stands in the way of regional policing and has to be forced into submission. You won't believe how the hurled naked threats of invasion immediately after their tests until they shut up when we tested ours. China was never mentioned in their threats. They know China won't attack them nor do they stand any chance against China.

Tactical nukes is a pain which India will face for a long time to come. Obviously if India doesn't invade Pakistan, there is no reason to be threatened by tactical nukes. So why such pain? Because they intend to and Nasr kills this option. Nasr is a weapon of mercy as it gives millions of civillians one more chance to live and puts onus to start a large scale nuclear exchange back on India instead of Pakistan. No matter what the rhetoric, fact will always remain that 1) India invaded 2)Pakistan used restricted nuclear force on invading military (not civilian population) 3) India had the option of avoiding nuclear destruction of several millions but did not do that. Rhetoric of 'we will consider any nuclear attack as full nuclear and respond massively' has little weight in serious circles and is primarily aimed at coercing Pakistan into not destroying aggressive Indian invaders. They also want the world to come to their help by pressurising Pakistan on tactical nukes. One frequent omission you wil find in their threat of massive response is Pakistan is fully capable of massive response as well. When naval arm of our nuclear forces goes operational, there will remain no doubt in anyone's head that Pakistan's ability to respond will remain intact under any circumstances. No amount of ABM umbrella can give an assured defence against submarine launched nukes which can attack anywhere given size of Indian Ocean around Indian coastline. Such blabbering is going to increase with time. We should remain focus and keep doing what we have to do in order to protect our freedom and sovereignty.

Good un'.
They see us rollin..they hatin !

 

[TaimiKhan]

There is nothing hilarious here. Pakistan nukes have always been a concern to the world. Its proliferation record is even a bigger headache. US has some sort of control over Pakistan nukes. It is the compromise that Pakistani has made to keep its nukes lest it gets stripped of its nukes. If you want to look the other way, I can understand.

Whatever lets you guys sleep better, keep dreaming that. And before looking at our proliferation record, better you first look at the record of others who made it happen. Do some googling into that too.

 

[Alpha BeeTee]

Dream along. Nuclear threshold is the Lakshman Rekha. Cross it and face consequences.
Pakista



Try it. Nuclear threshold is the Lakshman Rekha. Cross it and see the consequences.
Pakistan will cease to be a country as article mentions. India will still survive with respect to its large area and population.

And you would live to witness that 'massive response' ?
Dude if you live at a place where there is internet from which you access Pakistan Defense Forum,then let me assure you,you wont live to do the chest thumping.And God forbid that this happens to you or us.

 

[VCheng]

With reference to your comment about economy, there is no argument to be done. Economy is must, without it nothing can be achieved.

Yes Sir. Pretending that all is well with the economy or that the defense budget is sustainable (as are the traditions on PDF) is self-delusion with dire consequences in the long run. USSR was nuke-safe but fenced itself into oblivion anyway. Pakistan may be on the same false track.

 

[rashid.sarwar]

Yet ....... Another thread on same topic .......

 

[spsk]

Pakistan and Pakistanis dont lose their sleep over Indian nukes because firstly pakistan doesnt have any aggressive stances to nuke India, its a deterrent and used as defense. Indian Armed forces are most welcome to come and find out. secondly India hold an edge over man and material quantity so Pakistan is used to an enemy bigger in size since past 60 years plus. Thirdly, hindus of the world can be wiped out in a huge quantity due to nuke strikes on india, muslims are still abundant in many other muslim countries. Fourthly and most importantly, India cant fool around with Pakistan any more like cold start and other stupid plans that Indians want to try, also all indian aggressive and bullying plans to invade Pakistan have been stopped due to nukes, a reality India finds hard to digest. Which is why everywhere on this forum and generally in Indian ranks, Pakistani nukes are big hurdle to every Indian misadventure and a perfect slap on Indian face.

Your are entitled to your opinion, for me its a useless dead carcass.

Lack of knowledge. India was behind Pakistan on economy before 90s. India was not ahead of you for 60 years . Next 10 years going to be very crucial for both of us. Though pakistan is growing moderately its not sufficient to fund any war in future. 4% growth for your economy is not any good for u or for us. At this rate even Srilanka will emerge bigger than you by end of 10 years. Clearly Pakistan is on loosing side as of now.In future I dont see any point that India has to be worried about your threats.

 

[Signalian]

Lack of knowledge. India was behind Pakistan on economy before 90s. India was not ahead of you for 60 years . Next 10 years going to be very crucial for both of us. Though pakistan is growing moderately its not sufficient to fund any war in future. 4% growth for your economy is not any good for u or for us. At this rate even Srilanka will emerge bigger than you by end of 10 years. Clearly Pakistan is on loosing side as of now.In future I dont see any point that India has to be worried about your threats.

I never discussed economy in my post which means you have no idea what the discussion is about and you have no reply to my post,so im not responding to an off topic discussion anymore.

As for your prediction of future...Ignorance is bliss.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

And you would live to witness that 'massive response' ?
Dude if you live at a place where there is internet from which you access Pakistan Defense Forum,then let me assure you,you wont live to do the chest thumping.And God forbid that this happens to you or us.

I tell you. IDK. There are always people to replace me in cities. If Punjab is destroyed, more than 80% of Pakistan is destroyed. Pakistan will need 10000 nukes to annhilate everyone in India including villages.

 

[Pindi Boy]

Dream along. Nuclear threshold is the Lakshman Rekha. Cross it and face consequences.
Pakista



Try it. Nuclear threshold is the Lakshman Rekha. Cross it and see the consequences.
Pakistan will cease to be a country as article mentions. India will still survive with respect to its large area and population.

what is lustman rekha actually?????

It is very pathetic to see Indians who still live in lala land about the sinking of PNS Ghazi. Sad day for you sir. Read a non Indian source for a change.

Anyway, my point was that we can target any place in India without any problems, so stop living in your delusional world of self grandeur where India is a suppa pawa and Pakistan is ity bity Gaza. If you can hit us, so can we, and at a time and place of our choosing.

BTW, its common knowledge that nuke subs are much more noisy compared to SSKs. So your subs will be relatively easier to detect for our P3C Orions. And your 26 Corvettes should hold on for dear life because JF17s & Mirage III/5s will be firing 150km anti ship CM400AKGs, C802s, Harpoons, & Exocets etc. You can't even come close to our coastal waters with your surface vessels. Its not 1971 anymore. Stop living in the past and come to reality.

Sir Barak 8 or S-400 ko kxe counter krnge ????? Agr war 2018 k bd hui

 

[MAhsan]

What I understand from the article is that "Nasr" is definitely something very effective arsenal against enemy, that's why a lot of people are bi***ing about it on and off.

 

[aanshu001]

It is very pathetic to see Indians who still live in lala land about the sinking of PNS Ghazi. Sad day for you sir. Read a non Indian source for a change.

Anyway, my point was that we can target any place in India without any problems, so stop living in your delusional world of self grandeur where India is a suppa pawa and Pakistan is ity bity Gaza. If you can hit us, so can we, and at a time and place of our choosing.

BTW, its common knowledge that nuke subs are much more noisy compared to SSKs. So your subs will be relatively easier to detect for our P3C Orions. And your 26 Corvettes should hold on for dear life because JF17s & Mirage III/5s will be firing 150km anti ship CM400AKGs, C802s, Harpoons, & Exocets etc. You can't even come close to our coastal waters with your surface vessels. Its not 1971 anymore. Stop living in the past and come to reality.


You might have a daddy daughter relationship with Russian but Pakistan and China enjoy brotherly relations. When you call China our daddy, you are doing nothing but self projection. Look it up.

Chinese satellites will be our key to your secret military sites in A&N, other than our own SIGINT & HUMINT. Its pretty good . And as I've said already, since everyone says we will be 3rd after US and Russia in nukes, then we'll easily nuke all 350 Islands, if need be. You will never know the amount of our strategic missiles. That's classified. But rest assured that they are enough to wipe out the Indian civilization from the face of the earth for good. That's what we aim for in a final total nuclear war with your country.


First of all, your 220 elephant size RCS fighters are almost useless considering that they suffer from poor serviceability of just around 55% according to your CAG report. They suffer from technical problems in the fly-by-wire systems and radar warning receivers. It means they probably won't even know about the danger before the SD-10 or AMRAAM 120 C5 hits.

Front-line fighter Su-30 MKI flies with flaws

...In addition, the fly-by-wire system has poor “reliability index” adversely affecting the stability, controllability, flight safety and flight control of these jets.... Hardly impressive.

...Current active fighter squadrons (35) is seven below the sanctioned strength of 42. and according to your own air force, by 2022, it will have around just 25 squadrons thereby losing even the slight edge over rival neighboring nation.... Hardly convincing.

And on top of all that, your sanctioned strength for combat pilots is less than ours. 1:0.81 to our 1:2.5. Which means even though you may have more aircrafts, we'll be the ones flying more number of sorties in war.

The Indian Air Force’s Big Problem: Not Enough Pilots! | The Diplomat

And anyway, if this elephant size RCS Su30MKI tries to enter Pakistan for a mission, it would be picked up before it gets close to 500 km of our border due to our AWACS. End of story for super dupper radar MKI radar. Our planes could even turn off their radar and rely on AWACS's radar with data linking to wait for an appropriate time. You enter, you die. Simple as that.

BTW, even JF-17 has carries a BM/KG300G self protection pod with DRFM technology. Not much you can do here. JF-17 block 3 will also have an AESA radar, IRST & HMD with 5th gen HOBS WVR missile . IRST combined with cover of AESA AWACS + SD-10 + AMRAAM 120 C5 is deadly for anything India can throw at us.

Mig21s will crash their selves out before any war starts. Don't even bring them into the conversation. The reason they did well in US was because of their small size. We have equally small sized F7PGs and they do well in exercises due to the same reasons, and our Mirage III/5 are in great shape to face Mig21s as well, numbering in at 157 and 185 aircrafts respectively. And they even carry R-Darter BVR missiles. So don't you worry at all.


I don't know what you're smoking to even ask this, but PAF has several ground based long range radars like 470km AN/FPS-117 etc. Read this. Comparative analysis of radar tech of Pakistan and India

Soviet rust-bucket S-125 Neva/Pechora missile range 35 km, DRDO 'invention' Akash missile range 30 km, SPYDER MR missile range 35km, TUNGUSKA missile range 10km, OSA missile range 15km will be taken care of by MAR-1s range 100km, CM-102s range 100km and AGM-88 HARMs range 150km. All you can do with your super dupper non operational 1500 km radar is watch us fire anti radiation missiles from JF-17s, Mirage IIIs & F-16s from a distance of up-to 150 km before returning home and the real strike package arrive right after this SEAD mission.

And BTW, before the arrival of the above SEAD package, we'll first cause complete destruction of your air bases, runways, possible SAM sites, barracks, command & control centers, weapon & ammunition depots etc. with LACM Babur range 700km, ALCM Raad range 350km and GB-6 Stealth Air-Launched Standoff Submunition Dispenser Precision Guided Weapon range 130km etc. etc. You're invited to watch this on your 'pie in the sky' non operational 1500 km radar, if you can!!

We see everything that goes on about 500 km in India with our 8 AESA AWACS Erieyes and ZDK-03s & AN/FPS-117 etc. The rest we see though our access to Chinese military satellites. You can not hide and you cannot run and you cannot surprise us. Even Andaman and Nicobar islands can't save you.

As far as S-400 and its older variants are concerned, do you think we sit on our asses all day and get intimidated by all the shiny new toys India gets from daddy Russia? Well, think again beta cuz we develop strategies and acquire technologies to counter these threats. Right now, as I'm writing this, many of PAF pilots are deputed in Turkey and China flying their F-16s and SU30MKKs under their flags, learning from their experiences and sharing our own, of opening a can of whop assess on IAF all these decades. I assure you that we have intimate knowledge of S-300s from Turkey's daily incursions into Greek airspace and messing with their S-300 batteries. In fact, I'm sure some PAF pilots have themselves flown Turkish F-16s into one of these sniffing missions. S-300 is not something new for us, we know its weaknesses & strategies on how to counter it. Its old news.

Similarly, we will know all the strengths and weaknesses of S-400 through our boys deputed in China flying their Su30MKKs, probably even before India receives its first S-400 battery. We'll probably be flying mock missions in S-400 territory along with our Chinese brethren facing their Su30MKKs when you'll be paying your Russians daddy billions of $$$ for your copies . So this randi rona about S-300/400 doesn't impress us at all, go try this somewhere else.


Before this, we'll fry your brains with 300 mm A-100 MRL with a range of 120km with SLC-2 artillery locating radars and GB-6 sub-munition dispensers with a range of 130km. End of story for Indian invasion dreams.

For your education: from last week

On Pak-China relation what your formal president need to say

On India - Pak what your media is saying

And dumbo how your P-3 going to survive against Mi-29K, or your junk Mirage -III/V.

Do you had any Idea how much electronic steered radar had upper hand mechanically steered radar not only for detection & engagement but also in response time ( radar locking & firing of missile)

And Radar is not only about range but also engagement ( for example JF-17 cann engage 2 planes at a time but MKI can 6 planes together) So One Su 30 can perform what 3 JF-17 will that's why it's an air- dominance fighter

And do you know how many Air-to-surface missiles & bombs IAF use now:

• Kh-59ME TV guided standoff Missile, 115 km
• Kh-59MK active radar homing anti-ship missile, 285 km
• Kh-35 anti-ship missile, 130 km
• Kh-31P/A anti-radar missile, 70 km
• Kh-29T/L laser-guided missile, 30 km
• S-8 rocket pods (80 unguided rockets)
• S-13 rocket pods (20 unguided rockets)
• AS-30L and Matra ARMAT air-to-surface missiles
• AS-30L ASM, Hunting BL755 CBUs (cluster bomb units)
• RAF-type slick and retarded 1000 lb (454 kg) bombs
• Matra Durandal anti-runway bombs
• Matra F1 and 155 (SNEB) rocket pods
• KAB-500L laser-guided bombs
• KAB-1500L laser-guided bombs
• FAB-500T gravity bomb
• OFAB-250-270 gravity bombs
• OFAB-100-120 gravity bombs
• RBK-500 cluster bombs
• Paveway II PGMs
• Sudarshan PGM

Do you how much it cost to make a Missile like Saheen or Agni ( a lot ) and it's not how many missiles you had it's how many you can actually fire before they can be tracked, India can fire her missile from Odisa, Bengal, Karnatka, Tamil Nadu. long -long away from the range of PAF but where you are going to park your launchers, farther you park it will give more response time for our ABM system and closer you Park it will make easier for Su30 /Rafael.

That's why your country is making tiny nukes easier to carry and hide & need cost effective launching system and Randi Rona that China will save us as it did in 1971 or in Kargil.

 

[aanshu001]