Pakistan's Airborne Early Warning and Control Aircrafts

[Contrarian]

Blain, you have to put extra value on real estate, considering that real estate on something like AWACS provides enhanced processing abilities.

One of the primary differences in mentioned long back. That Phalcon has a lot more processing capability including sigint/elint compared to the Erieye. You would agree im sure that all that extra room is not for providing larger beds and washrooms to the crew. There more hardware, including a bigger radar.

 

[s90]

^bigger radar means more range?

 

[gambit]

Blain, you have to put extra value on real estate, considering that real estate on something like AWACS provides enhanced processing abilities.

One of the primary differences in mentioned long back. That Phalcon has a lot more processing capability including sigint/elint compared to the Erieye. You would agree im sure that all that extra room is not for providing larger beds and washrooms to the crew. There more hardware, including a bigger radar.

True...But when it comes to aircrafts, unused space is wasted space and engineers hates waste, even though often empty space must be left as is due to other considerations such as weight-balances.

For example...Cooperative Engagement Capabilities...

Cooperative Engagement Capability (CEC) / AN/USG-2(V) Cooperative Engagement Transmission Processing Set

Here is the miniaturization of processing power in the development of CEC...

From 9300lbs down to little more than 500lbs to do the same thing. So what to do with all that empty space? How about making the aircrafts more versatile with other tasks? With any land based system, either make the land based facility more capable or make the system mobile. For the airborne system, either move the system to a smaller aircraft to make the system more survivable, less expensive to produce hence more of the system deployable on many of these smaller aircrafts, or make the existing aircraft that is carrying the system more versatile such as ECM or even cargo delivery for all we know. It is a tough decision and once it is made money will be allocated, contracts issued, training begin and there is still no guarantee that the enemy or potential enemy will come up with something superior.

 

[gambit]

^bigger radar means more range?

%99.999 of the time...Yes. Frequency also matter. Long range search radar operate in the mhz bands and this is what they often look like in size...

 

[Contrarian]

True...But when it comes to aircrafts, unused space is wasted space and engineers hates waste, even though often empty space must be left as is due to other considerations such as weight-balances.

For example...Cooperative Engagement Capabilities...

Here is the miniaturization of processing power in the development of CEC...


From 9300lbs down to little more than 500lbs to do the same thing. So what to do with all that empty space? How about making the aircrafts more versatile with other tasks? With any land based system, either make the land based facility more capable or make the system mobile. For the airborne system, either move the system to a smaller aircraft to make the system more survivable, less expensive to produce hence more of the system deployable on many of these smaller aircrafts, or make the existing aircraft that is carrying the system more versatile such as ECM or even cargo delivery for all we know. It is a tough decision and once it is made money will be allocated, contracts issued, training begin and there is still no guarantee that the enemy or potential enemy will come up with something superior.

Considering that both Phalcon and Erieye have been ordered recently, the miniaturization difference between the two would be negligible. Thus erieye, cannot pack in the equal capability equipment-due to size factor(of all sorts) as the Phalcon in the SAAB 2000.

As such the points about miniaturization would be valid had Phalcons been operational on the Il-76 for decades, and miniaturization would result in a smaller aircraft being just as capable. Thus the Erieye would be just as capable as the older Phalcon. In our case, both have been ordered in roughly the same timeframes.

In this case then, the engineers would have already planned the effective utilization of the entire Il-76 from the beginning.

 

[wangrong]

KJ2000

 

[King Julien]

pDh9BiLZRBk[/media] - ERIEYE Surveillance System Extending your horizon

great video, Erieye system seems to be impressive

 

[blain2]

Considering that both Phalcon and Erieye have been ordered recently, the miniaturization difference between the two would be negligible. Thus erieye, cannot pack in the equal capability equipment-due to size factor(of all sorts) as the Phalcon in the SAAB 2000.

As such the points about miniaturization would be valid had Phalcons been operational on the Il-76 for decades, and miniaturization would result in a smaller aircraft being just as capable. Thus the Erieye would be just as capable as the older Phalcon. In our case, both have been ordered in roughly the same timeframes.

In this case then, the engineers would have already planned the effective utilization of the entire Il-76 from the beginning.

I think you have drawn a massive generalization to come to the conclusion that Phalcon has more equipment thus it needed a bigger platform. First of all, you have to see the overall layout of the Phalcon (IL-76) to know where the equipment is stored and how much it is. It is certainly not a plane load full. The fact that Israelis are showing off their own Phalcon on a GF550 negates the point that in order to store hardware and the immense amount of equipment, an aircraft the size of IL-76 is necessary. That was your requirement in the past and those were the platforms that you provided and the Israelis obliged with equipping them.

Secondly, gone are the days of large AEW platforms. None of the future platforms are going to be bigger than 737/commuter sizes. This is certainly possible because the equipment is smaller, more powerful and the platforms are more streamlined than larger bodied aircraft (essentially built as airliners and large cargo aircraft) which were being used to fulfill the AEW role.

The Israelis are planning on having their gulfstream aircraft sustain 9 hour sorties with 6 consoles and as much or more plumbing in place than the IAF IL-76 based Phalcons.

 

[sancho]

I think you have drawn a massive generalization to come to the conclusion that Phalcon has more equipment thus it needed a bigger platform. First of all, you have to see the overall layout of the Phalcon (IL-76) to know where the equipment is stored and how much it is. It is certainly not a plane load full. The fact that Israelis are showing off their own Phalcon on a GF550 negates the point that in order to store hardware and the immense amount of equipment, an aircraft the size of IL-76 is necessary. That was your requirement in the past and those were the platforms that you provided and the Israelis obliged with equipping them.

Secondly, gone are the days of large AEW platforms. None of the future platforms are going to be bigger than 737/commuter sizes. This is certainly possible because the equipment is smaller, more powerful and the platforms are more streamlined than larger bodied aircraft (essentially built as airliners and large cargo aircraft) which were being used to fulfill the AEW role.

The Israelis are planning on having their gulfstream aircraft sustain 9 hour sorties with 6 consoles and as much or more plumbing in place than the IAF IL-76 based Phalcons.

Of course you can put the system in smaller aircrafts too, just look at the difference from the israeli 707 Phalcon and now the G550 Phalcon. There are 2 points that still speaks for a bigger aircraft, one that you can carry a rotodome with full detection rate to all sides and I still doubt that the two sided arrays of Erieye, or DRDO AWACS can equal that. Second that you have more space for more equipment like malaymishra123 said, but also for a bigger crew too.
The G550 can do 9h missions, but with a bigger crew on board and air refueling the A50 Phalcon can do much longer missions and if you take the size of India into account, you need a huge number of aircrafts if they had to land every 9 h right?

Btw, here are some nice inside pics of the IAF Phalcon:

http://images.google.de/imgres?imgu...refox-a&rls=org.mozilla:de:official&sa=N&um=1

 

[sancho]

pDh9BiLZRBk[/media] 8474%2Easpx&feature=player_embedded]YouTube - ERIEYE Surveillance System Extending your horizon

great video, Erieye system seems to be impressive

Look at the explaination of the radar arrays and the detection range from minute 2:11!
Is it me, or is the radar beam only detecting in the 150° aerea to both sides and not to the front and back and this is a official Saab video!
It's only searching from front right to back right, then switching to the left side to do the same and not a full 360° search.

Here the MESA system on the 737. The interesting part is also the explaination of the radar arrays in minute 2:28!

These arrays provide 130° of coverage, to the left and right. The tophead...array on top provides 50° of both, forward and aft surveillance

So it has 3 arrays and the 2 on the side provides only 130° of coverage!

 

[Patriot]

The Video Mentions three things
1)Equipped with AESA
2) Signal Intelligence Equipment Built IN
3)It can detect Sea as well as air targets.
4)Can rely information to any aircraft, ground station using Link-16.

 

[ironman]

I think you have drawn a massive generalization to come to the conclusion that Phalcon has more equipment thus it needed a bigger platform. First of all, you have to see the overall layout of the Phalcon (IL-76) to know where the equipment is stored and how much it is. It is certainly not a plane load full. The fact that Israelis are showing off their own Phalcon on a GF550 negates the point that in order to store hardware and the immense amount of equipment, an aircraft the size of IL-76 is necessary. That was your requirement in the past and those were the platforms that you provided and the Israelis obliged with equipping them.

Secondly, gone are the days of large AEW platforms. None of the future platforms are going to be bigger than 737/commuter sizes. This is certainly possible because the equipment is smaller, more powerful and the platforms are more streamlined than larger bodied aircraft (essentially built as airliners and large cargo aircraft) which were being used to fulfill the AEW role.

The Israelis are planning on having their gulfstream aircraft sustain 9 hour sorties with 6 consoles and as much or more plumbing in place than the IAF IL-76 based Phalcons.

I think you have failed to notice this news "Sweden is also considering replacing the SAAB 340 Argus with the SAAB 2000 Erieye system, as the larger internal volume of this airframe allows for the installation of additional control consoles and communications equipment – allowing the aircraft to be employed as a much more effective airborne command & control post"

 

[Contrarian]

I think you have drawn a massive generalization to come to the conclusion that Phalcon has more equipment thus it needed a bigger platform. First of all, you have to see the overall layout of the Phalcon (IL-76) to know where the equipment is stored and how much it is. It is certainly not a plane load full. The fact that Israelis are showing off their own Phalcon on a GF550 negates the point that in order to store hardware and the immense amount of equipment, an aircraft the size of IL-76 is necessary. That was your requirement in the past and those were the platforms that you provided and the Israelis obliged with equipping them.

Secondly, gone are the days of large AEW platforms. None of the future platforms are going to be bigger than 737/commuter sizes. This is certainly possible because the equipment is smaller, more powerful and the platforms are more streamlined than larger bodied aircraft (essentially built as airliners and large cargo aircraft) which were being used to fulfill the AEW role.

The Israelis are planning on having their gulfstream aircraft sustain 9 hour sorties with 6 consoles and as much or more plumbing in place than the IAF IL-76 based Phalcons.

Israel has different requirements compared to us. The fact that they are ordering Eitam does not mean that putting the Phalcon on a Gulfstream gives the same amount of capability as one on an Il-76. It depends on the requirements.

 

[TOPGUN]

pDh9BiLZRBk[/media] - ERIEYE Surveillance System Extending your horizon

great video, Erieye system seems to be impressive

Here a little something for u don't be negative towards or achivements we arent toward yours lets live in peace and let live in peace good day!

 

[King Julien]

Here a little something for u don't be negative towards or achivements we arent toward yours lets live in peace and let live in peace good day!

lol... well congrats to you.... but your AWACs makes me nervous buddy..... so.... I CONDEMN .... and