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Pakistani Supreme Court has gone overboard, says Katju

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Pakistani Supreme Court has gone overboard, says Katju

When I was I was a student of law at Allahabad University, I had read of the British Constitutional principle ‘The King can do no wrong’. At that time I did not understand the significance of this principle and what it really meant. It was much later, when I was in law practice in the Allahabad High Court, that I understood its real significance.

The British were experienced and able administrators. They realized from their own long, historical experience that while everybody should be legally liable for his wrongs and made to face court proceedings for the same, the person at the apex of the whole constitutional system must be given total immunity from criminal proceedings, otherwise the system could not function. Hence the King of England must be given total immunity from criminal proceedings. Even if he commits murder, dacoity, theft, or some other crime, the King cannot be dragged to court and made to face a trial.

One may ask why should the King be given this immunity when others are not? The answer is that in the practical world one does not deal with absolutes. The British were one of the most far sighted administrators the world has known. They realized that if the King is made to stand on the witness box or sent to jail, the system could not function. A stage is reached at the highest level of the system where total immunity to the person at the top has to be granted. This is the only practical view.

Following this principle in British constitutional law, almost every Constitution in the world has incorporated a provision giving total immunity to Presidents and Governors from criminal prosecution.

Thus, Section 248(2) of the Pakistani Constitution states:

“No criminal proceedings whatsoever shall be instituted or continued against the President or Governor in any Court during his term of office.”

The language of the above provision is clear, and it is a settled principle of interpretation that when the language of a provision is clear the court should not twist or amend its language in the garb of interpretation, but read it as it is.

I therefore fail to understand how proceedings on corruption charges (which are clearly of a criminal nature) can be instituted or continued against the Pakistani President.

Moreover, how can the court remove a Prime Minister? This is unheard of in a democracy. The Prime Minister holds office as long he has the confidence of Parliament, not the confidence of the Supreme Court.

I regret to say that the Pakistani Supreme Court, particularly its Chief Justice, has been showing utter lack of restraint. This is not expected of superior courts. In fact the court and its Chief Justice have been playing to the galleries for long. It has clearly gone overboard and flouted all canons of constitutional jurisprudence.:tup:

The Constitution establishes a delicate balance of power, and each of the three organs of the state -- the legislature, the executive and the judiciary – must respect each other and not encroach into each other’s domain, otherwise the system cannot function. It seems to me that the Pakistani Supreme Court has lost its balance and gone berserk. If it does not now come to its senses I am afraid the day is not far off when the Constitution will collapse, and the blame will squarely lie with the court, and particularly its Chief Justice.

(Justice Markandey Katju is a former Judge, Supreme Court of India. He is currently Chairman, Press Council of India)
 
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Implement rule of law in india first then come here, go and arrest Bal Thackery & l.k advani for the killings of thousands of innocent indians.
 
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Pakistani Supreme Court has gone overboard, says Katju.

Pakistan Supreme Court has done a GREAT job....................... No one is above the Law.

My country needs the implementation of the law.
 
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Pakistani Supreme Court has gone overboard, says Katju

When I was I was a student of law at Allahabad University, I had read of the British Constitutional principle ‘The King can do no wrong’. At that time I did not understand the significance of this principle and what it really meant. It was much later, when I was in law practice in the Allahabad High Court, that I understood its real significance.

The British were experienced and able administrators. They realized from their own long, historical experience that while everybody should be legally liable for his wrongs and made to face court proceedings for the same, the person at the apex of the whole constitutional system must be given total immunity from criminal proceedings, otherwise the system could not function. Hence the King of England must be given total immunity from criminal proceedings. Even if he commits murder, dacoity, theft, or some other crime, the King cannot be dragged to court and made to face a trial.

One may ask why should the King be given this immunity when others are not? The answer is that in the practical world one does not deal with absolutes. The British were one of the most far sighted administrators the world has known. They realized that if the King is made to stand on the witness box or sent to jail, the system could not function. A stage is reached at the highest level of the system where total immunity to the person at the top has to be granted. This is the only practical view.

Following this principle in British constitutional law, almost every Constitution in the world has incorporated a provision giving total immunity to Presidents and Governors from criminal prosecution.

Thus, Section 248(2) of the Pakistani Constitution states:

“No criminal proceedings whatsoever shall be instituted or continued against the President or Governor in any Court during his term of office.”

The language of the above provision is clear, and it is a settled principle of interpretation that when the language of a provision is clear the court should not twist or amend its language in the garb of interpretation, but read it as it is.

I therefore fail to understand how proceedings on corruption charges (which are clearly of a criminal nature) can be instituted or continued against the Pakistani President.

Moreover, how can the court remove a Prime Minister? This is unheard of in a democracy. The Prime Minister holds office as long he has the confidence of Parliament, not the confidence of the Supreme Court.

I regret to say that the Pakistani Supreme Court, particularly its Chief Justice, has been showing utter lack of restraint. This is not expected of superior courts. In fact the court and its Chief Justice have been playing to the galleries for long. It has clearly gone overboard and flouted all canons of constitutional jurisprudence.:tup:

The Constitution establishes a delicate balance of power, and each of the three organs of the state -- the legislature, the executive and the judiciary – must respect each other and not encroach into each other’s domain, otherwise the system cannot function. It seems to me that the Pakistani Supreme Court has lost its balance and gone berserk. If it does not now come to its senses I am afraid the day is not far off when the Constitution will collapse, and the blame will squarely lie with the court, and particularly its Chief Justice.

(Justice Markandey Katju is a former Judge, Supreme Court of India. He is currently Chairman, Press Council of India)

Sir,

Welcome to the forum----your understanding is flawed-----. The king cannot do wrong has a totally different meaning in the english justice system----and has no comparison to a head of state.

In british monarchy as it is set up----the king has no say in anything----he cannot pass judgement----accept or reject contracts of any kind----he is just a figurehead---he don't drive---he don't have a job---he has no political aspirations and favours no party---. Basically he is 'innocent' at all times.

The protection provided in pak constitution does not give a blanket protection to the president. Plus the issue in question happened long before he became president---.

No president is above corruption---in office or out of office----.
 
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Sir,

Welcome to the forum----your understanding is flawed-----. The king cannot do wrong has a totally different meaning in the english justice system----and has no comparison to a head of state.

In british monarchy as it is set up----the king has no say in anything----he cannot pass judgement----accept or reject contracts of any kind----he is just a figurehead---he don't drive---he don't have a job---he has no political aspirations and favours no party---. Basically he is 'innocent' at all times.

The protection provided in pak constitution does not give a blanket protection to the president. Plus the issue in question happened long before he became president---.

No president is above corruption---in office or out of office----.
sir, hottest wellcome to you!
from the the light brigade!
 
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If Pakistanis have to live with dictatorship, they'd be much better off under military generals than self-serving and corrupt judges. Judiciary is the second or third most corrupt institution in Pakistan, according to TI data.

Pakistan's supreme court judges are running amok and trampling any sense of justice or fairness or democracy. Removal of an elected prime minister by unelected and unaccountable judges is unprecedented in any parliamentary democracy anywhere.

Haq's Musings: Welcome Judicial Coup in Islamabad?
 
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Pakistani judiciary is more corrupt than the customs dept and the Pak military is the least corrupt, according to TI Pakistan:

According to TIP`s national corruption perception survey, 2011, a summary of which was released at a press conference here on Wednesday, land administration and police were the two most corrupt and education and military least corrupt departments.

The military, included in the survey for the first time, was a rank above the education department.

Contrary to the past surveys, the latest, fifth since 2002, has been conducted by Gallup Pakistan with a cut-off date of October for field activities. One of the parties had pulled out of the survey job because of increased government pressure, a TIP office-bearer said.

The organisation`s chairman Sohail Mirza and adviser Syed Adil Gilani spoke at the press conference.

They said the most alarming was the increase in corruption ranks of income tax, customs and tendering and contracting to 3rd, 7th and 6th among the most corrupt from 8th, 9th and 10th in 2010.

The judiciary and courts became the 4th most corrupt sector from 6th recorded last year.

Mr Gilani said unwilling public prosecution in a number of alleged cases of major corruption, pending proceedings and delay in punishment had contributed to the development of a perception that the judicial system had also fallen prey to corruption.

Mr Muzaffar alleged that corruption had reached an unprecedented level in the country.

He said a lack of accountability was being witnessed because of delay in punitive action by state organs against corrupt elements in cases pertaining to Pakistan Steel, NICL, Punjab Bank, rental power plants, last year`s Haj, KESC, PIA, railways and Wapda.

He claimed that the judiciary was facing a deliberate defiance in implementing Supreme Court orders and an unwilling attitude of prosecution agencies. He said 26 of 40 posts of judges were vacant in the Sindh High Court. The judiciary ranked 4th in 2002 survey, 3rd in 2006 and 7th in 2009.

Tendering and contracting activities had remained at the 10th position for two years before jumping to 6th this year.

Land, police departments viewed as most corrupt | DAWN.COM
 
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Sir,

Welcome to the forum----your understanding is flawed-----. The king cannot do wrong has a totally different meaning in the english justice system----and has no comparison to a head of state.

In british monarchy as it is set up----the king has no say in anything----he cannot pass judgement----accept or reject contracts of any kind----he is just a figurehead---he don't drive---he don't have a job---he has no political aspirations and favours no party---. Basically he is 'innocent' at all times.

The protection provided in pak constitution does not give a blanket protection to the president. Plus the issue in question happened long before he became president---.

No president is above corruption---in office or out of office----.
Actually Katju's quote from the constitution is correct and holds irrespective of the case against the President- corruption or not. The blanket protection is excepted only in case where a person's right to bring proceedings against the State is in question. It is not excepted for cases against the person of the President however grave they are. The only route is through no-confidence vote.
The same section of constitution says:
The President, a Governor, the Prime Minister, a Federal Minister, a Minister of State, the Chief Minister and a Provincial Minister shall not he answerable to any court for the exercise of powers and performance of functions of their respective offices or for any act done or purported to be done in the exercise of those powers and performance of those functions
[Chapter 4: General] of [Part XII: Miscellaneous]

The immunity for Zardari is absolute. Similarly the PM cannot be questioned about what he did in his office while exercising his powers. So Gilani's contempt conviction was not right.

However since the contempt conviction, Gilani's disqualification is justified as a simple consequence - A convicted person cannot be MP and hence cannot be a PM. What Gilani should have done is to appeal against the unconstitutional contempt conviction immediately. His attorney says it was PPP's decision to not file an appeal. Just shows what kind of stupid people are running the party.

PM

At least Gilani should have followed the court order and simply pursued cases against Zardari. He had a clear choice - accept the court's orders to investigate Zardari as consitutional and send a letter to Swiss authorities, or appeal against the order itself(Again, to recall the Section 248, no court can order a PM what to do or what not to do). He did neither.
 
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Actually Katju's quote from the constitution is correct and holds irrespective of the case against the President- corruption or not. The blanket protection is excepted only in case where a person's right to bring proceedings against the State is in question. It is not excepted for cases against the person of the President however grave they are. The only route is through no-confidence vote.
The same section of constitution says:

[Chapter 4: General] of [Part XII: Miscellaneous]

The immunity for Zardari is absolute. Similarly the PM cannot be questioned about what he did in his office while exercising his powers. So Gilani's contempt conviction was not right.

However since the contempt conviction, Gilani's disqualification is justified as a simple consequence - A convicted person cannot be MP and hence cannot be a PM. What Gilani should have done is to appeal against the unconstitutional contempt conviction immediately. His attorney says it was PPP's decision to not file an appeal. Just shows what kind of stupid people are running the party.

PM

At least Gilani should have followed the court order and simply pursued cases against Zardari. He had a clear choice - accept the court's orders to investigate Zardari as consitutional and send a letter to Swiss authorities, or appeal against the order itself(Again, to recall the Section 248, no court can order a PM what to do or what not to do). He did neither.

Hi,

There is no absolute immunity fir a president---immunity is against asking millitay or police to suppress insurgency---cases like red mosque---bring peace in the community---like taking out BLA operators---immunity against starting a war---but not for financial issues---assasinations and murder of opponents unless they are hiding at the red mosque.

As this young attorney leant about the immunity of the british monarch---I learnt that as well some 35---40 years ago. I got into an argument with my grand unlce who was a british citizen---a doctor by profession and he cleared the cobwebs of my mind.

You need to understand---the leader of britain is a prime minister---the monarch is a nobody---if there was to be immunity given to someone in similiar position to Zardari---it would be the british prime minister.
 
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Hi,

There is no absolute immunity fir a president---immunity is against asking millitay or police to suppress insurgency---cases like red mosque---bring peace in the community---like taking out BLA operators---immunity against starting a war---but not for financial issues---assasinations and murder of opponents unless they are hiding at the red mosque.

As this young attorney leant about the immunity of the british monarch---I learnt that as well some 35---40 years ago. I got into an argument with my grand unlce who was a british citizen---a doctor by profession and he cleared the cobwebs of my mind.

You need to understand---the leader of britain is a prime minister---the monarch is a nobody---if there was to be immunity given to someone in similiar position to Zardari---it would be the british prime minister.

I don't know about the British monarch or whatever irrelevant part the OP has. What I am saying is simply that the President of Pakistan has immunity in legal proceedings against his person, according to your very own constitution. This include criminal charges especially. Civil charges can at least be pursued on 60 days notice. With criminal charges, the immunity is absolute as long as he is in office.

Here is the full section.
[Chapter 4: General] of [Part XII: Miscellaneous]
248. Protection to President, Governor, Minister, etc.
(1) The President, a Governor, the Prime Minister, a Federal Minister, a Minister of State, the Chief Minister and a Provincial Minister shall not he answerable to any court for the exercise of powers and performance of functions of their respective offices or for any act done or purported to be done in the exercise of those powers and performance of those functions:

Provided that nothing in this clause shall be construed as restricting the right of any person to bring appropriate proceedings against the Federation or a Province.

(2) No criminal proceedings whatsoever shall be instituted or continued against the President or a Governor in any court during his term of office.

(3) No process for the arrest or imprisonment of the President or a Governor shall issue from any court during his term of office.

(4) No civil proceedings in which relief is claimed against the President or a Governor shall be instituted during his term of office in respect of anything done by or not done by him in his personal capacity whether before or after he enters upon his office unless, at least sixty days before the proceedings are instituted, notice in writing has been delivered to him, or sent to him in the manner prescribed by law, stating the nature of the proceedings, the cause of action, the name, description and place of residence of the party by whom the proceedings are to be instituted and the relief which the party claims.
 
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If Pakistanis have to live with dictatorship, they'd be much better off under military generals than self-serving and corrupt judges. Judiciary is the second or third most corrupt institution in Pakistan, according to TI data.

Pakistan's supreme court judges are running amok and trampling any sense of justice or fairness or democracy. Removal of an elected prime minister by unelected and unaccountable judges is unprecedented in any parliamentary democracy anywhere.

Haq's Musings: Welcome Judicial Coup in Islamabad?

How do Judges become dictators? You are misleading Pakistanis either be design or out of your ignorance about the constitution.

It is for the likes of you that the phrase "a little knowledge is dangerous" was coined for.
 
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LOL, you have been spamming the forum with his ''silly provocative statements'' on all threads whenever we tried to talk some sense into you. Now you are rejecting an argument because it came from Katju.

LOL! Continue.


Firstly you suggest the PSC have gone overboard by the implementation of our constitution and suggest you are talking sense to us. Keep your sense dude.
Secondly he was merely pointing out if you believe the validity of the source you must believe his previous nonsensical statements - perhaps you do believe what he has said in the past and you want to hide it??
 
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