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Pakistani Identity's Claim On Indian Heritage

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My Opinion on Partition - My understanding is that the Bugati's , the Zamindar's and Jagirdars of Punjab , Sindh and then Nizam's of hydrabad wanted to retain there land and power, However charter of Indian democracy how it will be was being discussed out loud since 1943-44. They were the major force behind making sure then that they retain there powers , they funded muslin league, Jinnah was not part of it then, he joined much later. Even today Zamindari and jagirdari is intact in pakistan. In India it got abolished.
 
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Unfortunately Sachar report is quite correct, But you need to see the reasons behind it why Indian muslim majority remained poor; I my opinion most of the educated Muslims (relative elite) migrated to Pakistan, obviously they were more politically aware and had means. Remaining Muslims who were daily wagers like weavers and Julaha's etc , there work was in their towns, how could they leave?.
Moreover, as they thought they would be minority .. they started living in Gettos. You and all of us know that Muslims in India prefer to stay in Muslim areas. In most cities its the old towns.
Maybe the fear made them do so and they passed on the same to their generations. Never focused on education, instead ensured that their kids learn the traditional family workman skill.

Shia muslims in India on other hand did assimilate with majority of India, but remember they always were relatively prosperous historically in india.

Yes definitely I blame the well off Muslims for moving and leaving behind the other not so well of Muslims. This is what Maulana Azad feared as well, he tried to stop the hordes of Muslims from migrating to Pakistan. Some of the stuff he said was actually right, he said you can move to any part of Pakistan but you will still be called a Hindustani, even to this date the children and grandchildren of the Muhajirs are called Hindustani in Pakistan.

I believe both sides are to be blamed for the partition. But I guess the subcontinent had to be divided some day, it was just too big.
 
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AIML demaded separate electorates for all Muslims..what logic is there for providing separate eloctorate ..ie Muslims could only vote for Muslims and no one else and vice versa...It was intact stepping stone towards sowing communal dis-accord amongst people

There second demand was dissolution of power from center ..and there be three power centers in the country..again a stepping stone towards a total anarchy.

Putting it simply, I do not agree. Nor are the constitutional experiments of over sixty years, from the 1880s to 1947, to be dismissed so easily. There were deep and abiding reasons why separate electorates were sought; it is necessary to be thoroughly abreast of the British attempts at providing representative government without swamping a minority to understand why these were necessary.

This thread has quite mistakenly meandered away into partition, the necessity for the creation of Pakistan and the Indian belief that this was never necessary.

Sadly, the original intention of the author, to point out that Pakistanis need not feel orphaned merely because the name of their constituted state has changed and that of another part of the older state has remained what it was, seems to have got lost in all this mutual misgiving. Pakistanis cannot lose their identity, nor can they lose their cultural heritage, the heritage of the several great civilisations that flourished in the geographical areas not identified with them, merely because of a political change of name. That does not amount to a change of identity. On the contrary, they carry their heritage with them, each man, woman or child, in Pakistan or out of it, and they need not apologise to each other or to others of any affiliation about being heirs to this rich heritage.
 
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First of all, missed you sir.

Second,
As for whether or not democracy works that way, there are many ways in which democracy works. A prejudiced old bigot who ties up deviants from his own moral philosophy and has them beaten up, and does this without being prosecuted and jailed under the Indian Penal Code, is also at this moment claiming to be the standard bearer of democracy in India.
So freaking true. Remember, intemperance is wisdom in today's India.

EDIT: This post can be considered OT
 
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Putting it simply, I do not agree. Nor are the constitutional experiments of over sixty years, from the 1880s to 1947, to be dismissed so easily. There were deep and abiding reasons why separate electorates were sought; it is necessary to be thoroughly abreast of the British attempts at providing representative government without swamping a minority to understand why these were necessary.

This thread has quite mistakenly meandered away into partition, the necessity for the creation of Pakistan and the Indian belief that this was never necessary.

Sadly, the original intention of the author, to point out that Pakistanis need not feel orphaned merely because the name of their constituted state has changed and that of another part of the older state has remained what it was, seems to have got lost in all this mutual misgiving. Pakistanis cannot lose their identity, nor can they lose their cultural heritage, the heritage of the several great civilisations that flourished in the geographical areas not identified with them, merely because of a political change of name. That does not amount to a change of identity. On the contrary, they carry their heritage with them, each man, woman or child, in Pakistan or out of it, and they need not apologise to each other or to others of any affiliation about being heirs to this rich heritage.

Good post man.

It can be said in short that the historical hindu kings, or muslim kings of undivided India are as much as history of india as of pakistan.

But, This will create problems for naming of ballistic missiles. ha ha ha
 
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Yes definitely I blame the well off Muslims for moving and leaving behind the other not so well of Muslims. This is what Maulana Azad feared as well, he tried to stop the hordes of Muslims from migrating to Pakistan. Some of the stuff he said was actually right, he said you can move to any part of Pakistan but you will still be called a Hindustani, even to this date the children and grandchildren of the Muhajirs are called Hindustani in Pakistan.

I believe both sides are to be blamed for the partition. But I guess the subcontinent had to be divided some day, it was just too big.

Agreed! It was way to big to be managed. But should not have been divided on religious lines, instead on regional lines.. if at all.
 
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Agreed! It was way to big to be managed. But should not have been divided on religious lines, instead on regional lines.. if at all.

There are several countries that are 5 or 10 times bigger than India and running quite well, Russia, US, China, Brazil, australia.

So too big is never a problem. Almost all of pakistan is nearer to delhi than compared to southern india
 
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Well This would be a Bold Statement From a Hindu But I have to say That Jinnah was More Secular Than Gandhiji & Nehru... He was against Congress supporting Khilafat Movement as he said it was a religious Movement & Secular Congress should not Support it...But Gandhi & Nehru took it Heads on As if they where the Champions of Muslims & the Net result was Mappila riots of Kerala...

Jinnah wanted to Protect his People Likewise was Dr.Ambedkar... Gandhiji Betrayed Ambedkar many a Times when he asked Reservations for Low Cast Hindus... at Both Jinnah & Ambedkar was Against Gandhis Pseudo-Secularist Policies...

The Fact is that Muslims has Jinnah to Represent them, Low caste had Ambedkar to represent them...But till Today there is no one to Represent Hindus...No one was there then , no one is there today...

Well i Would Blame the Partition on Iqbal & wahabism... which Iqbal got when he was in Saudi Arabia ... he got Brainwashed there & Transffered the Idea to Jinnah... But Still Jinnah was not ready to accept... But due to Habit of Gandhi who was a Self proclaimed leader of Everyone in India...which he was not....ya there was Support for Gandhi but he was not Representative of Every Indian...so Jinnah was left with no option other than partition...

Ambedkar would have asked for the same but due to active work of Hindu Mahasabaha which asked all Hindus to open temple for people of all cast & demanded Reservation for low cast Hindus lead to Change in stand of Ambedkar...

Jinnah wanted a Progressive pakistan ... But which unfortunately is now Hijacked by Extremist in his Country...his Idea was never applied in Islamic Republic of Pakistan... or else Pakistan would have Progressed in a much better way...
 
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There is no one such thing as one single Pakistani identity. The Pakistani identity is deeply rooted in history, culture, its ethnic diversity, & the religion.
 
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I think the reason is simply because the twin chose to call itself India. If the name had been Bharat or Hindustan, then the terms British India, Indian subcontinent, Indian history, etc. would have remained neutral and shared.

But, since the Republic of India called itself as such, then it became necessary to disambiguate the term 'India' based on context. One extreme reaction by some Pakistanis was to deny the connection altogether.
 
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Some of the stuff he said was actually right, he said you can move to any part of Pakistan but you will still be called a Hindustani, even to this date the children and grandchildren of the Muhajirs are called Hindustani in Pakistan.

I agree with a lot you say, but I completely disagree with you here. I am a "Mohajir" (the term we use for ourselves is 'Urdu speakers') from Karachi as well, but I have never been called one. Neither have I ever been called a Hindustani. Even though my mother was born & raised in India, & only came to Pakistan in 1979 when she married my Dad.
 
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There is no one such thing as one single Pakistani identity. The Pakistani identity is deeply rooted in history, culture, its ethnic diversity, & the religion.

hmmmm...Can u prove it....??
 
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I agree with a lot you say, but I completely disagree with you here. I am a "Mohajir" (the term we use for ourselves is 'Urdu speakers') from Karachi as well, but I have never been called one. Neither have I ever been called a Hindustani. Even though my mother was born & raised in India, & only came to Pakistan in 1979 when she married my Dad.

Yeah. I grew up in Karachi and I never heard anyone being called Hindustani.
 
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hmmmm...Can u prove it....??

Yes, the varied opinions you see here from various Pakistani members on this very forum is proof of that. Every Pakistani has a different idea about his or her identity, because there is no one such thing as a Pakistani identity, besides showing loyalty to the state of Pakistan (besides the corrupt politicians & religious fundos, the rest of the nation regardless of ethnicity is very loyal towards Pakistan).
 
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You are misinformed. That was not the Muslim League demand at the denouement; it was for three homelands, with equal voting rights for citizens irrespective of religion within each.
Refresher course in history please.
Considering that seats were in fact reserved based on religion, to name just one instance in the post-1935 elections, this was not necessary for Jinnah to plead; it was a case already won, so why would he and the AIML be threatening to partition the country for what they already had in hand?
Again a refresher course please. You are a very good story teller, please post the history, I would love to read it.
As for whether or not democracy works that way, there are many ways in which democracy works. A prejudiced old bigot who ties up deviants from his own moral philosophy and has them beaten up, and does this without being prosecuted and jailed under the Indian Penal Code, is also at this moment claiming to be the standard bearer of democracy in India.
Are you talking about Anna Hazare here?
 
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