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Pakistani Duplicity Caused the United States to Lose in Afghanistan

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The war in Vietnam was not lost in the field, nor was it lost on the front pages of the New York Times or the college campuses. It was lost in Washington, D.C.”
False ... it was badly lost in battlefields ... don't overlook the bravery and sacrifices of those who laid their lives to free their motherland from interventionist and occupational forces. The part of Washington D.C. is as usual there for their inability and too much dependency on their weapons as well as 'takabur'.
Duplicity always reciprocal in USA and Pakistan. USA is also to be blamed as much as Pakistan. Don't always point fingers to Pakistan.
 
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It was the US choice of India and Northern Alliance which caused Pakistan to keep the issue alive so if US left India could not influence Afghanistan. If USA would have watched mutual interests of US and Pak then the situation could have been different.
That is my take on it. Pakistan has one big concern that is if India and others are not watching Pakistani interests against India, Pakistan will.
 
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Actually they are accepting the fact that US is no super power unless it has help of Pakistan.
Pakistan is the maker and breaker of super powers
 
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You are perfectly right. A very bad time for Pakistan, which it has to brave, very tactfully.
We should continue work with China . Western countries already started propoganda to Isolate Pakistan and to make dent in PAK China friendship.
I believe not only few elements in U.S.A, elements in western countries believes Independent Balochistan can help to counter iran, and keep china at distance. They sees BRI as increasing influence of china in this region.
No BRI = Less china influence
 
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We should continue work with China . Western countries already started propoganda to Isolate Pakistan and to make dent in PAK China friendship.
I believe not only few elements in U.S.A, elements in other western countries believes Independent Balochistan can help to counter iran, and keep china at distance. They sees BRI as increasing influence of china in this region.
No BRI = Less china influence

Fully agree.
 
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So basically Pakistan has single handedly defeated 2 superpowers in Afghanistan.

Mashallah

Whilst slapping a wannabe superpower in the face:woot:

USA can seize Iran portion of Baluchistan and still achieve the same

If you hadnt become so stupid and ideological and had the clever pragmatic foreign policy of the old USA you would have understood the simple thing that all you had to do to get 100% Pakistani support was a few things

1-Shut the anti-Pak afghans up.
Tell them the future of the afghan people was more important than the bee the had up their azzes about Pakistan

2-Keep the indians out, the indians did next to nothing in Afghanistan (see Trump library comment)
But they were a red rag to a Green Pakistani Bull
We hated them
They were our enemy and this should have been understood

These two things led to a situation where Pakistan understood that the USA didnt give a fcuk about Pakistans strategic interests
So the more Pakistan helped the more stable anti-Pak afghans became, the more they plotted against us
The more they plotted with india to try and screw us on our western borders

ALL IT NEEDED WAS FOR THE USA TO UNDERSTAND THIS

And slap the afghans in line, tell them to focus on their people
Tell them the importance of an onside Pakistan
Tell them to stop playing gamez whikst their nation burnt

All the USA had to do was tell india to piss off because they were pissing Pakistan off

But the U.S did nothing
And for some reason you expected Pakistan to support a anti-Pak government in Kabul who plotted with india to screw us

The rest is history


Now the afghans are scratching around because the USA is moping about Iran



Go back to your old smarter pragmatic approach because this new one is decimating American prestige and influence
 
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Whilst slapping a wannabe superpower in the face:woot:



If you hadnt become so stupid and ideological and had the clever pragmatic foreign policy of the old USA you would have understood the simple thing that all you had to do to get 100% Pakistani support was a few things

1-Shut the anti-Pak afghans up.
Tell them the future of the afghan people was more important than the bee the had up their azzes about Pakistan

2-Keep the indians out, the indians did next to nothing in Afghanistan (see Trump library comment)
But they were a red rag to a Green Pakistani Bull
We hated them
They were our enemy and this should have been understood

These two things led to a situation where Pakistan understood that the USA didnt give a fcuk about Pakistans strategic interests
So the more Pakistan helped the more stable anti-Pak afghans became, the more they plotted against us
The more they plotted with india to try and screw us on our western borders

ALL IT NEEDED WAS FOR THE USA TO UNDERSTAND THIS

And slap the afghans in line, tell them to focus on their people
Tell them the importance of an onside Pakistan
Tell them to stop playing gamez whikst their nation burnt

All the USA had to do was tell india to piss off because they were pissing Pakistan off

But the U.S did nothing
And for some reason you expected Pakistan to support a anti-Pak government in Kabul who plotted with india to screw us

The rest is history


Now the afghans are scratching around because the USA is moping about Iran



Go back to your old smarter pragmatic approach because this new one is decimating American prestige and influence

you dodged the question. USA can seize Iran's Baluchistan and show pakistan the middle finger for good
 
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Looking at this , i think the yanks are totally "in" on the seperation of Balochistan , i am saying it because the author is a retired US army colonel ...
He is retired USA soldier and what I have noticed is even USA leaders and soldiers don't take him seriously. No right now USA focus is not on Baluchistan. They just want to get rid of war and go from here. After they have left and few years have passed than they would again try to mess in this region.
 
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you dodged the question. USA can seize Iran's Baluchistan and show pakistan the middle finger for good
And what will Iran due? You can take that land but then have a zillion ied and suicide bombers to deal with. You will get fed up and withdraw, Iran will retake. Did you guys learn nothing in Iraq. You guys spent trillions of dollars and thousands of lives...in the end Iraq is an Iranian proxy. Iraq openly states that it stands with Iran. If war started with Russia or China do you Iraq would stand with the USA? A big fat no.
 
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And what will Iran due? You can take that land but then have a zillion ied and suicide bombers to deal with. You will get fed up and withdraw, Iran will retake. Did you guys learn nothing in Iraq. You guys spent trillions of dollars and thousands of lives...in the end Iraq is an Iranian proxy. Iraq openly states that it stands with Iran. If war started with Russia or China do you Iraq would stand with the USA? A big fat no.

Iraq is such a nice Iranian proxy that they host American military forces

why would Sunni Balochs throw their lives for Shia clerics ?
 
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Iraq is such a nice Iranian proxy that they host American military forces

why would Sunni Balochs throw their lives for Shia clerics ?
Iraq hosts anti Isis forces....common interest. I don't believe a formal security pact was ever signed between Iraq and usa. Iraqi's wanted to be able to prosecute American soldiers....after the blackwater atrocities.

Why would Arabs fight for Persians? Reality check.....they due. Who's to say Sunni won't fight with Shia against an infidel invader?
 
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Bullsh!t report.

Pakistan has been a victim in all of this mess. US should leave Afghanistan after a deal—a deal where Afghanistan, Taliban, Pakistan, and US agree to.

US needs to kick out foreign actors (india) from Afghan theatre. Afghanistan, Taliban, Pakistan, and US are the keys to long lasting Afghan peace.
US needs to kick itself out too. The only reason they are acting mad, is because they lost all their chances to make Afghanistan into a permanent base. In that likes of Okinawa, or Guam
 
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The war in Vietnam was not lost in the field, nor was it lost on the front pages of the New York Times or the college campuses. It was lost in Washington, D.C.”

H. R. McMaster wrote that statement in his 1997 scathing critique of the Vietnam War, Dereliction of Duty: Lyndon Johnson, Robert McNamara, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and the Lies That Led to Vietnam. He was a major in the Army at that time. Now, he is a retired lieutenant general and former national security advisor to President Donald Trump.

It is indeed ironic that McMaster eventually contributed to what many people thought to be impossible by repeating the mistakes of Vietnam and losing the Afghanistan war—both in the field and in Washington, DC.

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The real tragedy is that America’s leaders, in particular its military leaders, long knew that the war in Afghanistan could not be won having chosen to fight it in a manner that was alien to its nature, thus wasting both treasure and precious lives.

For over seventeen years we have wrongly applied counterinsurgency doctrine to a proxy war waged by Pakistan against the United States and Afghanistan. At the same time, we supplied Pakistan
the United States and Afghanistan. At the same time, we supplied Pakistan with generous aid packages to bribe them from pursuing a course of action opposed to our own, which they considered in their national interest.


Counterinsurgency was never a winning strategy as long as Pakistan controlled the supply of our troops in landlocked Afghanistan and regulated the operational tempo through its proxy army, the Taliban, which has maintained an extensive recruiting, training and financial support infrastructure inside Pakistan, where it has been immune to attack.

In essence, our leaders, through a combination of incompetence and indifference, allowed the United States to be defeated by Pakistan and paid them to do it.

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Pakistan’s objectives for Afghanistan have always been different than those of the United States. Not only has Pakistan not helped the United States in Afghanistan, but from the very beginning through its support of the Taliban, Pakistan has actively worked against our interests and is responsible for prolongation of the war and the deaths and maiming of thousands of Americans and Afghans.

For example, Jalaluddin Haqqani, then the leader of the Haqqani Network, controlled the Khost region of eastern Afghanistan, which is where most of Osama bin Laden’s training camps and supporters were, was a CIA asset in the 1980s and met with U.S. officials soon after 9/11.


Journalist Steve Coll wrote:

“There was always a question about whether Haqqani was really Taliban, because he hadn’t come out of Kandahar; he wasn’t part of the core group. And it was quite reasonable to believe after 9/11 that maybe he could be flipped.”


In early October 2001, Haqqani made a secret trip to Pakistan, where Lt. Gen. Mahmood Ahmed, a religious hardliner and then director of Pakistan’s notorious intelligence agency, the ISI, advised him to hold out and not defect, promising that he would receive help.

Subsequently, Haqqani decided to stay with the Taliban and the Haqqani Network continues to be a threat and a source of instability in Afghanistan.


The United States was aware of Pakistan’s duplicity early on. Gary Berntsen, one of the first CIA operatives to arrive in Afghanistan, said:

“I assumed from the beginning of the conflict that ISI advisers were supporting the Taliban with expertise and materiel and, no doubt, sending a steady stream of intelligence back to [Pakistan].”


The same pattern of duplicitous behavior by Pakistan has continued over the last seventeen years.

Late last year, during a Taliban attack on the Afghan provincial capital of Ghazni, large numbers of Pakistani nationals were found among the dead, presumably fighting with the Taliban. The bodies were subsequently returned to Pakistan.

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In a recently released video, Al Qaeda emphasizes its unity with Taliban and its role within the Taliban insurgency, as the jihadists, including Pakistanis, fight together to resurrect the Taliban’s Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan.

And yet American political leaders and senior military officers have done nothing, preferring to remain puzzled or indifferent as to why we have not won in Afghanistan.

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Pakistanis openly brag that they have defeated the United States.

Shortly before his death in 2015, Lt. Gen. Hamid Gul, the former head of Pakistan’s ISI, a committed Islamist and known as the “godfather of the Taliban,” said in an Urdu language television interview:

“One day, history will say that the ISI drove the Soviet Union out of Afghanistan with the help of USA and another sentence will be recorded that says the ISI drove the USA out of Afghanistan with the help of the USA.”


The Pakistani audience roared with laughter and applauded in approval.

The problem of Pakistan as the actual instigator of the Afghan conflict was never adequately addressed and Taliban safe havens in Pakistan remained largely untouched.

Pressure was never applied to Pakistan’s pain points, its moribund economy and financial insolvency and the existential threat of ethnic separatism, in particular among Pakistan’s Baloch and Pashtun populations.

On the ground in Afghanistan, the war effort has been a program on automatic pilot, where everyone has been constantly reassured that everything was going according to plan and “progress was being made,” a phrase I heard endlessly during my own 2010 tenure at International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) Headquarters in Kabul. If the effectiveness of the strategy was ever questioned within the military chain of command, then it had no obvious effect.

Lacking any new ideas or even a recognition of reality, we chose to continue pursuing a proven inappropriate counterinsurgency approach in Afghanistan, which has now forced the United States into direct negotiations with the Taliban, a concession we had previously refused to consider.

Yet, an American withdrawal will only become a humiliating defeat, if the United States is forced into strategic retreat from South Asia because we do not have a plan in place to address the changing regional conditions in a post–U.S. Afghanistan.

The only bargaining chip the United States has in peace negotiations is our presence in Afghanistan, which has been the primary target of the Taliban negotiators, insisting that the United States announce a six-month withdrawal plan.

The American “presence” argument is tenuous at best. The United States should be identifying new forms of leverage to bolster our negotiating position in the short term and, longer term, provide a basis for a new South Asian strategy.

The recently-announced effort to strengthen military ties with India is a step in the right direction.

The United States should also include measures to thwart plans by the China-Pakistan Axis for regional hegemony. Beijing intends to extend its Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) throughout South Asia, including Afghanistan, and follow it with the establishment of military facilities, such as Chinese naval bases on the Arabian Sea.

The China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) is the flagship of BRI. Pakistan’s southwestern province of Balochistan is CPEC’s center of gravity and the location of a festering independence insurgency. Just recently, the Balochistan Liberation Army made a daring and high-profile attack on the Pearl Continental Hotel in the heart of the Chinese-run port of Gwadar, CPEC’s centerpiece project.

An independent Balochistan could fulfill a number of U.S. strategic interests in the region, for example: providing Afghanistan a friendly neighbor and access to the sea; eliminating a major area of Pakistan’s terrorist infrastructure; placing additional pressure on Iran, which has its own restive Baloch population; and blocking Chinese ambitions for economic and military dominance of South Asia.

The foundations of a new U.S. strategy in South Asia should include burden shifting and, when necessary, strategic disruption of our adversaries

SOURCE : https://nationalinterest.org/blog/m...y-caused-united-states-lose-afghanistan-58752

Like when USA wanted to get out of Vietnam, it was Cambodia which caused USAs defeat. Now its Pakistan.

Dear Pakistan, USA will try her level best to cause a civil war in Pakistan now. This is now very much clear.
I will say, at this point, military should step back, and politicians should take steps to calm down local paid thugs.
 
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