Pakistan will push UN to declare Indian Ocean 'nuclear free zone', says Aziz

[Samrat420]

Tell that to Saudis, Russians, Brazilians, Egyptians and youself. So no, it's a geo-political myth, the reality is based on balance of power. Plus, Pakistan's economy has taken an upswing, so it's improving, it takes time to make momentum.
Economics are uncertain, it's possible that overnight one could lose all their money, and at another night get it all back.

Read my post again, the victim card India picks up is exactly this, but you'd openly say China isn't your enemy, no? The thing is, a couple of years down the road, we'll have quieter and more lethal subs in the sea, if India loses her sanity over that, you know who is at fault.


Submarines were acquired through existing budget, as for India's ability to expand, the Rafale deal is an ideal example of how much can be expanded, and the Agusta Torpedo controversy at where it can expand.
I'd say this is off-topic, but I hope you understood what I mean.

Victim card? What victim card? India feels threatened by Chinese military advancements and that's a fact. So, why shouldn't we prepare for any unwanted eventualities in future, even if there's no risk of an Indo-China war in present timeline..? Its just cold hard logic.

Tell me how would you react if Afghanistan asked you to “denuclearise the Af-Pak region" as a peace proposal? Would you ever accept it?

 

[Moon]

No i dont, I highly doubt if you actually understand how capital acquisitions work. I can bet my bottom dollar that the the submarines were not acquired in your existing budget, do a breakup of your capex and tell me how many subs can the navy afford in it.

What do you have that says otherwise? (Neutral and a reliable source), after the 90Bs, and F-22Ps, navy did not acquire a large platform from its own money, the OHP were through CSF and so were the Orions, and also the Orions which were replaced, throughout this time navy acquired FACs, which weren't expensive at all. Now throughout the time the Navy could'vesaved a large sum of money. And plus the government's add on it could've easily afforded submarines from China, which could've set up feasible deals of their ToT, and manafacturing into, considering Sino-Pak ties.
So yes the acquisition of submarines were planned a long time ago, this is how PN works. It's being doing so in the past.

Victim card? What victim card? India feels threatened by Chinese military advancements and that's a fact. So, why shouldn't we prepare for any unwanted eventualities in future, even if there's no risk of an Indo-China war in present timeline..? Its just cold hard logic.

Tell me how would you react if Afghanistan asked you to “denuclearise the Af-Pak region" as a peace proposal? Would you ever accept it?

That Is called the victim card, on basis that China has a No-First use, India has a No-First use, yet India feels threatened by China and wants to nuke it. And so develops SSBNs, which are supposed to be used to nuke China if it violates the NFU, which it can't because India also has a NFU policy.

 

[Samrat420]

[QUOTE="Mr.Meap, post: 8320624, member: 16387what do you have that says otherwise? (Neutral and a reliable source), after the 90Bs, and F-22Ps, navy did not acquire a large platform from its own money, the OHP were through CSF and so were the Orions, and also the Orions which were replaced, throughout this time navy acquired FACs, which weren't expensive at all. Now throughout the time the Navy could'vesaved a large sum of money. And plus the government's add on it could've easily afforded submarines from China, which could've set up feasible deals of their ToT, and manafacturing into, considering Sino-Pak ties.
So yes the acquisition of submarines were planned a long time ago, this is how PN works. It's being doing so in the past.


That Is called the victim card, on basis that China has a No-First use, India has a No-First use, yet India feels threatened by China and wants to nuke it. And so develops SSBNs, which are supposed to be used to nuke China if it violates the NFU, which it can't because India also has a NFU policy.[/QUOTE]
India has a NFU policy, and India adheres to it. And that is why India needs to have a robust second-strike capability, and last I checked Nuclear submarines are meant to bolster second-strike capability. They aren't use for preemptive decapitation strikes. So, the quest for Nuclear triad is perfectly in harmony with India's stated policy of NFU. What is it that you find so contradictory in it?

 

[Photon]

Either Sartaj Aziz, has gone senile in his old age or Pakistani government hell bent on making itself a laughing stock at UN.

India Ocean a nuclear free zone and South Asia a ABM free zone.

Who will entertain these absurd ideas , from a country which refuses to adhere to NFU or even sign Fissile material cut off treaty.

This is request to tantamounts to ,

" Since we do not have the ability and resources to field a Nuclear Submarine or ballistic missile shields, we don't want rest of the too world either, all the while producing nuclear weapons at phenomenal rates and threatening to initiate a nuclear war."

 

[Moon]

[QUOTE="Mr.Meap, post: 8320624, member: 16387what do you have that says otherwise? (Neutral and a reliable source), after the 90Bs, and F-22Ps, navy did not acquire a large platform from its own money, the OHP were through CSF and so were the Orions, and also the Orions which were replaced, throughout this time navy acquired FACs, which weren't expensive at all. Now throughout the time the Navy could'vesaved a large sum of money. And plus the government's add on it could've easily afforded submarines from China, which could've set up feasible deals of their ToT, and manafacturing into, considering Sino-Pak ties.
So yes the acquisition of submarines were planned a long time ago, this is how PN works. It's being doing so in the past.


That Is called the victim card, on basis that China has a No-First use, India has a No-First use, yet India feels threatened by China and wants to nuke it. And so develops SSBNs, which are supposed to be used to nuke China if it violates the NFU, which it can't because India also has a NFU policy.

India has a NFU policy, and India adheres to it. And that is why India needs to have a robust second-strike capability, and last I checked Nuclear submarines are meant to bolster second-strike capability. They aren't use for preemptive decapitation strikes. So, the quest for Nuclear triad is perfectly in harmony with India's stated policy of NFU. What is it that you find so contradictory in it?[/QUOTE]
So why did you pull out the China card?.
Knowing China won't nuke you, why make the nuclear weapons and start a nuclear race in the region?.
See, now that we're at the beginning, I guess you know who's at fault.

 

[Samrat420]

India has a NFU policy, and India adheres to it. And that is why India needs to have a robust second-strike capability, and last I checked Nuclear submarines are meant to bolster second-strike capability. They aren't use for preemptive decapitation strikes. So, the quest for Nuclear triad is perfectly in harmony with India's stated policy of NFU. What is it that you find so contradictory in it?

So why did you pull out the China card?.
Knowing China won't nuke you, why make the nuclear weapons and start a nuclear race in the region?.
See, now that we're at the beginning, I guess you know who's at fault.[/QUOTE]
Why shouldn't we pull out the China card? INDIA also has a NFU policy. So do you guys pull out the India card or not? Did India's NFU policy dissuade Pakistan from pursuing Nuclear WMDs ? So why should Chinese NFU stop India from acquiring second strike capability. If China actually stays true to its NFU pledge, then they won't have anything to fear from Indian nuke subs. Right?

I'm asking you once again.. If Afghanistan proposes to make the Af-Pak region a WMD-free zone as a peace overture, would you accept it or not? If not, why not? Answer this question and you'll find out why India pulls out the China card.

 

[Ankit Kumar 002]

Oceans should be free all nukes. That should be the main priority of the whole world right now.

Tell that to China first.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

lol this is funny we wont talk nuclear free south asia because we have nukes but we want nuke free indian ocean because we dont have nukes (capability)there

We do & that's why we created this back in 2010;

http://m.ispr.gov.pk/front/main.asp?o=t-main_pageM
The custodian of Nations 2nd Strike capability!

Why do they even bother. No one's listening.

To brush off any criticism when Pak publically announcing its second strike capability .. Saying "we fuckin told you so".

http://thediplomat.com/2015/03/does-pakistan-have-a-sea-based-second-strike-capability/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...d9436a-11bb-11e4-8936-26932bcfd6ed_story.html

http://www.wisconsinproject.org/countries/pakistan/PakistanMissileUpdate-2016.html

https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/Nuclearweaponswhohaswhat

http://nation.com.pk/blogs/31-Mar-2...s-are-threatening-to-spill-over-in-south-asia

http://www.nti.org/gsn/article/pakistani-navy-announcement-seen-sign-second-strike-capability/

http://carnegieendowment.org/2015/03/09/murky-waters-naval-nuclear-dynamics-in-indian-ocean

http://www.defencejournal.com/2001/july/reassessing.htm


Senile indian trolls (jumping like idiots) should take note and stfu.

Right, and SUPARCO's armed military satellite constellation provides 1st strike.

Here is video of it.

U can see the Indian contingent watching was very shocked.

Are you mad cox of ISI spy pigeon ? Here here....

 

[Sankpal]

Oceans should be free all nukes. That should be the main priority of the whole world right now.

Wow..when Chinese nuclear power missile submaries visiting Karachi and Srilanka ports than we dont have issue.

It's all about " we have than it's a super duper technology but if our enemy have than risk for all world

Now pakistan have so much points to cry in UN

Oceans should be free all nukes. That should be the main priority of the whole world right now.

what about chinese submaries visiting in Karachi ports

 

[Srinivas]

.. This confirms pak is not working on nuke submarine. Also not considering sea naes 2nd strike capabilities

This is a drama, they will appeal to UN and they know that this appeal will not succeed because of the nuclear track record they have, the next step is they will say that since countries did not care for their peaceful proposal they are left with no choice but to perceive nuke subs and second strike capability.

 

[Pride of the Pigeons]

We have 8 AIP subs com8ng our way to join the 5 subs we already have

All you have is talk. You can't even afford 8 F-16, how are you going to afford 8 submarines?

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

All you have is talk. You can't even afford 8 F-16, how are you going to afford 8 submarines?

This is how;

http://www.dawn.com/news/1211363

4 to be built in Karachi Shipyard .. 4 in China... + 4 improved F-22Ps..


As for 8 F-16s.. Why pay when you can get em financied partially by USA? If we can afford to buy 15 Vipers + goodies + 1000 hell fire missiles for over 1.1 billion.. Do you think we would die by paying extra 400+ million for F-16s.. Get a grip birdie.

This is a drama, they will appeal to UN and they know that this appeal will not succeed because of the nuclear track record they have, the next step is they will say that since countries did not care for their peaceful proposal they are left with no choice but to perceive nuke subs and second strike capability.

Nice plan right...

 

[Moon]

So why did you pull out the China card?.
Knowing China won't nuke you, why make the nuclear weapons and start a nuclear race in the region?.
See, now that we're at the beginning, I guess you know who's at fault.

Why shouldn't we pull out the China card? INDIA also has a NFU policy. So do you guys pull out the India card or not? Did India's NFU policy dissuade Pakistan from pursuing Nuclear WMDs ? So why should Chinese NFU stop India from acquiring second strike capability. If China actually stays true to its NFU pledge, then they won't have anything to fear from Indian nuke subs. Right?

I'm asking you once again.. If Afghanistan proposes to make the Af-Pak region a WMD-free zone as a peace overture, would you accept it or not? If not, why not? Answer this question and you'll find out why India pulls out the China card.[/QUOTE]
Why should India be believed over China in any scenario?. Plus, is the NFU policy officially India's stance?. If tomorrow I march and plunder all the way to Tamil Nadu, will India not take measures to stop me?.

Afghanistan wouldn't, simply as we've never threatened them, unlike India which has been sabre rattling since a long time.
Know what? Outline a scenario in which Afghanistan asks Pakistan for its nukes, once you do that I'll answer your question.

 

[Photon]

This is how;



Nice plan right...

Rather a desperate plea, that makes your government look foolish.

All nuclear armed nations are developing ABMs and already have nuclear subs.

No one could have objected , if Pakistan developed them too.

This is rather an act of desperation.

"Since we can't develop our own, please some one stop India from doing it either ! "

 

[Immortan.Joe]

Its not the point

We have 8 AIP subs com8ng our way to join the 5 subs we already have

A naval version of babur is under development and it will form the basis of our sea based second strike.

The way the world is, certain quaters will kick up a stink if Pakistan develops these weapons and strike abilities

However highlighting the consequences of india introducing the weapons in our region when ignored allows Pakistan to develop and test our weapons without scrutiny

After the indian nuclear tests neither india nor the world thought we could respond, indians spent a week trolling Pakistan and predicting our demose, then suddenly Pakistan tests its own weapon

If Pakistan had been first we would be sanctioned to the stars

This way we are just responding to the induan threat


Pakistan is developing our sea based second strike and it will be revealed soon enough, our statements prepare the way for our tests and induction

A Cruise missile ,howsoever advanced, could be shot down even by WWII era flak guns; while a SLBM fired from a SSBN would need world's most sophisticated and dedicated missile defence system to stop it.

Even iff ,and a big iff, yor are able to navalize Babur (whose even land version is not mature),or better buy a Chinese SLCM and put a green paint on it, an Indian destroyer 20 Km off the coast of Mumbai would be able to shoot down this missile using its SAM ,and if near to that missile, even Guns.