Pakistan will have to take tough decisions if US blocks bailout

[LeGenD]

We all know the true reasons why the US and India keep mentioning the fake debt trap with regards to CPEC.

This has absolutely nothing to do with US/Indian concern for any debt that Pakistan has accrued. This has to do with US/Indian concern at growing relations between China and Pakistan.

The US and India are unable to digest a healthy relationship between China and Pakistan.

These matters are not black and white or pinky and rosy.

Infrastructure expansion should be grounded in sound feasibility homework and advice from field experts.

Shady political dealings under the garb of infrastructure expansion (or BRI) can backfire like in the case of Sri Lanka: https://www.ship-technology.com/features/hambantota-port-china-sri-lanka/

 

[Arsalan]

This is NEVER gonna happen. USA will not block the bailout package, they might get IMF to come up with stricter rules and requirements but wont ever want to block it. Why would they want to lose their big influence?

Devaluation of Rupee is the main reason why we are in such dire economic situation,

Says enough about your economist credentials!!

govt must take Rupee value in control like dar did for 4.5 years

Says even more about your mental health and growth!!

 

[CriticalThought]

This is NEVER gonna happen. USA will not block the bailout package, they might get IMF to come up with stricter rules and requirements but wont ever want to block it. Why would they want to lose their big influence?

Well, hopefully they don't, but the point is they can. Let's see how this plays out. Things are on a knife's edge for now.

 

[Arsalan]

Well, hopefully they don't, but the point is they can. Let's see how this plays out. Things are on a knife's edge for now.

Personally, i hope they do!

 

[CriticalThought]

Personally, i hope they do!

Are you serious? What then? Sovereign default?

 

[Arsalan]

Are you serious? What then? Sovereign default?

Then we suffer, the only thing that can make us act like a NATION!! Once we do that we will move forward.

If you have someone with a broken bone you can either operate and fix it or you can give painkillers. Painkillers however are NOT a cure. It will just delay the inevitable, the bone will get fixed at wrong point and you will have to BREAK it again to set it right. Also it will destroy your liver.

Similarly, not going to IMF will bring huge problems but it have always been in face of problems that we have stood as one and worked our way through them.

 

[CriticalThought]

Then we suffer, the only thing that can make us act like a NATION!! Once we do that we will move forward.

If you have someone with a broken bone you can either operate and fix it or you can give painkillers. Painkillers however are NOT a cure. It will just delay the inevitable, the bone will get fixed at wrong point and you will have to BREAK it again to set it right. Also it will destroy your liver.

Similarly, not going to IMF will bring huge problems but it have always been in face of problems that we have stood as one and worked our way through them.

Sir, I don't have much hope for an uneducated nation that has suffered (rightly or wrongly) for a long time. I don't know how much people can handle, and I for one don't want an Arab Spring. It's exactly what the opposition is looking for. Economic hitmen. Let's pray for the best and ask Allah for His Mercy. Now is NOT the time for adventurism.

 

[Lincoln]

The LOWEST rate charged by China on BRI where CPEC is a part is 6%. This is considered a soft loan. If its such a low rate (1.5%) than why does the govt not inform parliament or keep it hidden from the Pakistani awam who ultimately has to pay back these "loans".
Peoples parliament would be delighted to hear that its only 1.5% as would every Pakistani. It would STOP all the carping and dangerous speculation in one blow.
It would stop the IMF, World Bank, Western governments with one thunderous swoop from criticism about unsustainable loans etc etc . They would have to eat crow

By the way IMF charges about 2-3% on average. More than half the rate that China charges


WHY ?

Next time quote me when you refer to me, so I can give you a reply instead of indirectly replying to me and hoping I don't see and get to answer the most low effort answer of all time with mere words and no backup of the claims.

Stop reading Indian articles and Western articles. They are the ones crying for the details to surface yet also somehow giving figures for this interest in retardedly large amounts such as 10% to 20%, as for 5% to 6%, there are few such projects and those few such projects are by private companies! I will give you an example of that as well since you yourself are too incompetent.

Also, I will need you to give me a list of all the projects which have over 5% interest rate. I am referring to PROJECTS, not articles. Below I have given my list as evidence.

• Coal Power Plan, Desalination Plant, 300-Bed Hospital, Gwadar Breakwaters and East Bay Expressway, total worth nearly $1 billion will be built on loans with 0% interest.
• Early Harvest Project; $6.1 billion was allocated for this loan at only 1.6% interest.
• The entire 354 kilometres of roadway north of Shinkiari and ending in Raikot, near Chilas will be constructed as a 2-lane highway. Worth $1.2 billion, to be completed on low interest rate concessional loans.
• Approximately $11 billion worth of Infrastructure projects including Early Harvest will be done at 1.6% interest and were brought down from 3%.

For comparison, loans for previous Pakistani infrastructure projects financed by World Bank carried an interest rate of 5% to 8.5% while interest rates on market loans approached 12%.

• A $2.9 billion phase which will connect to major cities, namely Multan and Sukkur, will be financed at 2.0% interest rate and will be a concessional loan.
• $7 billion of $8.2 billion for overhaul of Main Line 1 Railway will be financed on concessionary loans.

Incase you get lost, this is the definition of Concessionary loans; These are loans that are extended on terms substantially more generous than market loans. The concessionally is achieved either through interest rates below those available on the market or by grace periods, or a combination of these. Concessional loans typically have long grace periods.

• $1.6 billion Orange Line part of Lahore Metro will be financed with loan at interest rate of 2.4%, it would have been 1.6% had it not been a commercial project.
• Pakistan-China Fibre Optic Project was financed with a loan at 2% interest rate.
• China announced that Gwadar International Airport would no longer be financed by loans but instead be constructed with grants.

Now lets talk about your so-called 5% and 6% loans. These are loans with 5% or 6%interest rates for about $15.5 billion worth of Energy Projects, these Energy Projects worth $15.5 Billion out of the estimated around $30 billion investment, are to be done by private consortia rather than the Government. Private consortia here refers to joint Pakistan-China firms. Since these projects are to be undertaken by private consortia.

The usual rate of the Government funded projects and projects to be under taken by the Government which are also not commercial projects like Orange Line, is the usual 1.6% to 3.0% by the Exim Bank of China. There are a lot more projects which I haven't quoted here and many more whose detail hasn't surfaced about which Indians and the West cry foul, whilst pulling a debt trap out of their arse although they don't have details, truly magical.

But lets talk about how much India butthurt now, shall we?

So, recently India has objected to the projects being undertaken in this Corridor in Gilgit Baltistan and Azad Kashmir, otherwise known as Pakistan-Administered Kashmir. Well, there's a huge amount of hypocrisy to this.

India did not object to construction of Karakoram highway built between 1959 and 1979, neither did it object to the Chinese-sponsored upgrade works on this highway after the 2010 earthquake.

India also did not object to construction of Mangla Dam financed by World Bank in southern Kashmir. India also did not object to the Neelum-Jhelum Hydropower Plant recently completed and which was under construction since 2008 with Chinese assistance, despite the fact that the Hydropower plant is located in a territory which India believes that is legally hers.

Following the 2005 Kashmir earthquake, large-scale reconstruction work of infrastructure took place across northern Kashmir with the assistance of South Korean, Turkish, and Saudi firms. Chinese companies took part in 14 post-earthquake reconstruction projects in the disputed region, worth $6 billion. India did not object to these works, despite the fact that infrastructure near the militarily sensitive Line of Control were upgraded.

Indian Objection to Chinese construction works and projects in Gilgit Baltistan arose in 2011 in response to a Chinese complaint regarding a joint Indian-Vietnamese oil exploration project in South China Sea. Furthermore, an influential think tank of the Indian Ministry of Defense, Institute for Defense Studies and Analysis, in other words the Indian Establishment in 2011 called for India to raise objections to Chinese Projects and Investments in the Pakistan-Administered Kashmir region on an international level.

China even threatened to get involved if India attempts to disrupt CPEC after concerns spread in India that CPEC is also a strategic corridor which is going to threaten India. Furthermore, former Indian Ambassador even said that India opposing CPEC would lead it to lose heavily as it is in India's interest vis-à-vis Central Asia.

Here are what your media outlets, defense analysts and articles have to say.

https://idsa.in/policybrief/TheNeedforHasteonPakistanoccupiedKashmir_pstobdan_071015

https://indianexpress.com/article/i...m-modi-to-question-china-over-threat-3001786/

http://www.cacianalyst.org/publicat...cpec-project-to-oppose-or-not-to-oppose?.html

Also, keep in mind; https://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/20...llion-cpec-in-balochistan-chinese-think-tank/.

But apparently the Indians who want to daily make comments on how much they wish Pakistan is destroyed and have made such comments in past, are trying to warn us of this debt trap and saying that they are simply warning us even though they don't care because it doesn't effect them.

What a joke, haha! Reality is that India is really butthurt about this Economic Corridor.

Now, please, tell me another joke about CPEC you heard on your Television or Indian media, kindly apply burnol while doing so.

@maximuswarrior @Hakikat ve Hikmet @Dubious @Peaceful Civilian @Path-Finder @GeraltofRivia

 

[nahtanbob]

Next time quote me when you refer to me, so I can give you a reply instead of indirectly replying to me and hoping I don't see and get to answer the most low effort answer of all time with mere words and no backup of the claims.

Stop reading Indian articles and Western articles. They are the ones crying for the details to surface yet also somehow giving figures for this interest in retardedly large amounts such as 10% to 20%, as for 5% to 6%, there are few such projects and those few such projects are by private companies! I will give you an example of that as well since you yourself are too incompetent.

Also, I will need you to give me a list of all the projects which have over 5% interest rate. I am referring to PROJECTS, not articles. Below I have given my list as evidence.

• Coal Power Plan, Desalination Plant, 300-Bed Hospital, Gwadar Breakwaters and East Bay Expressway, total worth nearly $1 billion will be built on loans with 0% interest.
• Early Harvest Project; $6.1 billion was allocated for this loan at only 1.6% interest.
• The entire 354 kilometres of roadway north of Shinkiari and ending in Raikot, near Chilas will be constructed as a 2-lane highway. Worth $1.2 billion, to be completed on low interest rate concessional loans.
• Approximately $11 billion worth of Infrastructure projects including Early Harvest will be done at 1.6% interest and were brought down from 3%.

For comparison, loans for previous Pakistani infrastructure projects financed by World Bank carried an interest rate of 5% to 8.5% while interest rates on market loans approached 12%.

• A $2.9 billion phase which will connect to major cities, namely Multan and Sukkur, will be financed at 2.0% interest rate and will be a concessional loan.
• $7 billion of $8.2 billion for overhaul of Main Line 1 Railway will be financed on concessionary loans.

Incase you get lost, this is the definition of Concessionary loans; These are loans that are extended on terms substantially more generous than market loans. The concessionally is achieved either through interest rates below those available on the market or by grace periods, or a combination of these. Concessional loans typically have long grace periods.

• $1.6 billion Orange Line part of Lahore Metro will be financed with loan at interest rate of 2.4%, it would have been 1.6% had it not been a commercial project.
• Pakistan-China Fibre Optic Project was financed with a loan at 2% interest rate.
• China announced that Gwadar International Airport would no longer be financed by loans but instead be constructed with grants.

Now lets talk about your so-called 5% and 6% loans. These are loans with 5% or 6%interest rates for about $15.5 billion worth of Energy Projects, these Energy Projects worth $15.5 Billion out of the estimated around $30 billion investment, are to be done by private consortia rather than the Government. Private consortia here refers to joint Pakistan-China firms. Since these projects are to be undertaken by private consortia.

The usual rate of the Government funded projects and projects to be under taken by the Government which are also not commercial projects like Orange Line, is the usual 1.6% to 3.0% by the Exim Bank of China. There are a lot more projects which I haven't quoted here and many more whose detail hasn't surfaced about which Indians and the West cry foul, whilst pulling a debt trap out of their arse although they don't have details, truly magical.

But lets talk about how much India butthurt now, shall we?

So, recently India has objected to the projects being undertaken in this Corridor in Gilgit Baltistan and Azad Kashmir, otherwise known as Pakistan-Administered Kashmir. Well, there's a huge amount of hypocrisy to this.

India did not object to construction of Karakoram highway built between 1959 and 1979, neither did it object to the Chinese-sponsored upgrade works on this highway after the 2010 earthquake.

India also did not object to construction of Mangla Dam financed by World Bank in southern Kashmir. India also did not object to the Neelum-Jhelum Hydropower Plant recently completed and which was under construction since 2008 with Chinese assistance, despite the fact that the Hydropower plant is located in a territory which India believes that is legally hers.

Following the 2005 Kashmir earthquake, large-scale reconstruction work of infrastructure took place across northern Kashmir with the assistance of South Korean, Turkish, and Saudi firms. Chinese companies took part in 14 post-earthquake reconstruction projects in the disputed region, worth $6 billion. India did not object to these works, despite the fact that infrastructure near the militarily sensitive Line of Control were upgraded.

Indian Objection to Chinese construction works and projects in Gilgit Baltistan arose in 2011 in response to a Chinese complaint regarding a joint Indian-Vietnamese oil exploration project in South China Sea. Furthermore, an influential think tank of the Indian Ministry of Defense, Institute for Defense Studies and Analysis, in other words the Indian Establishment in 2011 called for India to raise objections to Chinese Projects and Investments in the Pakistan-Administered Kashmir region on an international level.

China even threatened to get involved if India attempts to disrupt CPEC after concerns spread in India that CPEC is also a strategic corridor which is going to threaten India. Furthermore, former Indian Ambassador even said that India opposing CPEC would lead it to lose heavily as it is in India's interest vis-à-vis Central Asia.

Here are what your media outlets, defense analysts and articles have to say.

https://idsa.in/policybrief/TheNeedforHasteonPakistanoccupiedKashmir_pstobdan_071015

https://indianexpress.com/article/i...m-modi-to-question-china-over-threat-3001786/

http://www.cacianalyst.org/publicat...cpec-project-to-oppose-or-not-to-oppose?.html

Also, keep in mind; https://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/20...llion-cpec-in-balochistan-chinese-think-tank/.

But apparently the Indians who want to daily make comments on how much they wish Pakistan is destroyed and have made such comments in past, are trying to warn us of this debt trap and saying that they are simply warning us even though they don't care because it doesn't effect them.

What a joke, haha! Reality is that India is really butthurt about this Economic Corridor.

Now, please, tell me another joke about CPEC you heard on your Television or Indian media, kindly apply burnol while doing so.

@maximuswarrior @Hakikat ve Hikmet @Dubious @Peaceful Civilian @Path-Finder @GeraltofRivia

Car is available at $20,000. You have to pay 100% cash. Now a car salesman offers the same car at $30,000 with 2% interest loan. Tell us which is a better deal. CPEC is the 2nd case. you are paying inflated prices for Chinese infrastructure & services. that is a secondary issue. the big issue with all these infrastructure projects is where is the economic activity to pay for it ? if infrastructure is all you need for becoming world class economy Saudi Arabia would be an industrial powerhouse

Some of the propaganda about CPEC would end if agreements were not secret. There are two reason to be secret in the world - national security and corruption. Given Pakistan's track record you can take your pick here

 

[Menace2Society]

Cut the defence budget for a year by half and give $2 billion stimulation package to export industries with expediated capacity building. Reroute electric and gas to these business and just make it happen very quickly. Much better than a slow death.

 

[Lincoln]

Car is available at $20,000. You have to pay 100% cash. Now a car salesman offers the same car at $30,000 with 2% interest loan. Tell us which is a better deal. CPEC is the 2nd case. you are paying inflated prices for Chinese infrastructure & services. that is a secondary issue. the big issue with all these infrastructure projects is where is the economic activity to pay for it ? if infrastructure is all you need for becoming world class economy Saudi Arabia would be an industrial powerhouse

Some of the propaganda about CPEC would end if agreements were not secret. There are two reason to be secret in the world - national security and corruption. Given Pakistan's track record you can take your pick here

first thing first, man up, and stop trying to pretend you are American whilst using proxies when you made the account and use it.

Second thing, your analogy would be deemed acceptable if we knew what the Standard is, in other words if we have something to compare it to quantitatively and thus derive a conclusion. The matter of fact here is that you're assuming that your analogy applies, in order to prove that it does apply, compare it to active projects whilst having a standard set and thereby show how your analogy is correct.

Infrastructure is not all you need for becoming a world class economy but it is without a doubt the step in the right direction. It's not only basic economics, it's basic sense. To develop an economy, you need industrialization, development, more investments, better production and so on, and to attain these, the first and foremost thing you need is Electricity or Power and some form of connectivity, like Roads, these two factors lay the foundation. Go read a book or ask any Economist.

Also, by that analogy of yours that information is concealed either for National Security or Corruption reasons and for Pakistan's case, it is because of corruption, then our Nuclear program by that example never happened, it was all a large corruption scandal all along to fool us and for the powerful take tons of money to their graves, you cracked the code!

 

[nahtanbob]

Also, by that analogy of yours that information is concealed either for National Security or Corruption reasons and for Pakistan's case, it is because of corruption, then our Nuclear program by that example never happened, it was all a large corruption scandal all along to fool us and for the powerful take tons of money to their graves, you cracked the code!

the case for secrecy in nuclear program is understandable. I cannot think of any valid reason for secrecy in CPEC

 

[Lincoln]

the case for secrecy in nuclear program is understandable. I cannot think of any valid reason for secrecy in CPEC

You're back to square one. The same 'I cannot think of any valid secrecy in CPEC' again. Simply stop thinking, it will hurt your brain if you think this long : )

 

[nahtanbob]

You're back to square one. The same 'I cannot think of any valid secrecy in CPEC' again. Simply stop thinking, it will hurt your brain if you think this long : )

you cannot complain later that you were not told

 

[Turingsage]

You're back to square one. The same 'I cannot think of any valid secrecy in CPEC' again. Simply stop thinking, it will hurt your brain if you think this long : )

You can continue weaving your fantasies about CPEC loans when NO senior official in Parliament will reveal the nature of these loans to parliament or to the people who will be left holding the baby.
Personally I say more power to you and those that think like you, its a sure fire recipe for the bankruptcy of Pakistan or/and Pakistan offering up its sovereignty over large parts of its territory. India will find it a lot easier to deal with Pakistan's overlords, since you lot will just be a piece on India-China chessboard.
East India company went for the same play-book and eventually gobbled up India. It took congress 150 years of concerted non-violent struggle to get them out

'Chinese-only colony' in Pakistan to house 5 lakh workers
The proposed city will be a financial district that Beijing is planning to set up in the Pakistan's port city of Gwadar to house Chinese workforce.
BusinessToday.In Last Updated: August 21, 2018 | 15:40 IST

Pic Courtesy: CPIC

• Taking its partnership with China a notch further, Pakistan is reportedly building a city to house half a million Chinese nationals at a cost of $150 million in port city of Gwadar. The planned city is a part of ambitious China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) which aims to improve connectivity between the two countries.

According to a report in The Economic Times, only Chinese citizens will live in this gated zone, thereby paving way for China's colony within Pakistan. The proposed city will be a financial district that Beijing is planning to set up in the Pakistan's port city to house Chinese workforce.

China-Pak Investment Corporation has bought the 3.6-million square foot International Port City and will build a gated community for the anticipated 5,00,000 Chinese professionals who will be located by 2022, the report said.

The CPEC is Pakistan's most important national project that aims to revive the country's sputtering economy. Both Islamabad and Beijing have worked together on this 'flagship' project under the ambitious Belt and Road initiative (BRI) to develop railway infrastructure, pipelines, highways and maritime links. This is part of China's larger plan to gain influence in the region. Over 20 CPEC projects worth over $27 billion are currently being implemented all across Pakistan.

China already has exclusive townships for its citizens in Africa and Central Asia.

The first agreement between the two countries was signed in 2014, as per which China would invest in projects worth over $46 billion under the CPEC framework; the amount could grow up to $62 billion in a few years. In the name of CPEC, China has been consistently helping its 'all-weather friend' with financial loans.

Pakistan received $4.5 billion worth of loans from China in the fiscal year 2017-18 in addition to a $1.5 billion trade finance facility. In the preceding year, China had extended loans worth $3.9 billion to Pakistan. This year, China aims to pump in $2 billion to help Islamabad meet its foreign currency needs of which over $1 billion have already been disbursed.

In the last fiscal, Pakistan managed to obtain roughly $10 billion dollars to service the foreign debt. The CPEC repayments will start from 2020, and by 2024 Islamabad will have to pay Beijing $4.5 billion annually. This, in addition to the $22 billion capital goods import required in next three years for completion of these projects.

https://www.businesstoday.in/curren...ional-port-city-cpec-gwadar/story/281497.html