What's new

Pakistan: United we fall?

VelocuR

SENIOR MEMBER
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
6,188
Reaction score
5
Country
Pakistan
Location
United States
United we fall?


290x230-PakistanFlag.jpg


National security indeed is a matter of utmost concern for our civil-military establishment policy makers; it has been so since the heady days of Ayub Khan’s martial law of 1958, down to the 1999 coup d’etat, and straight on to last year’s Abbottabad raid by US Navy SEALs to the ‘Memogate’ scandal. And there has been consistent failure on the part of the same forces which are consumed by such concerns to safeguard national security — except when it comes to civilian rule when it is seen as acting against national security prerogatives.

These in turn, since 1948, have been defined as threat from India, to threat from Bengali nationalism, to threat from Pakhtun nationalism of yore, to Sindhi and now Baloch nationalism. The two constants in this threat perception of the defence officialdom have been India and the civilian, elected governments. America, via the Afghan endgame and Balochistan, is the latest parable that has been introduced into the threat perception list.

And just what (or who) are the safeguards against these multiple existential threats posed to the integrity and sovereignty of Pakistan from these varying quarters from time to time?

A non-existent Nation of Islam, a proxy army of semi-literate, trained and untrained jihadi volunteers; and a professional, nuclear-armed army sworn to protecting the state’s ideological frontiers that extend into the strategic depths of Afghanistan. This has been and is the wherewithal of our national security regime, which overrides all others, notably rule of law through democratic institutions that would invest in human capital and through it into globally acceptable and sustainable norms of economic activity aimed at measurable progress. No wonder the failures are stunning. And there will always be a popular centrifugal force, with or without help from a foreign country to undo us.

Islam as a state ideology has failed to unite Pakistanis as a nation, because religion has not done so since the abolition of the classical Muslim Caliphate, which clearly had run its course centuries ago; or else Muslims from Morocco and Bosnia to Brunei and Indonesia would form a single nation state today. Turks and Arabs would not have fought amongst themselves wars of conquest, and of deceit, respectively, the latter in cohorts with Britain and France in the 20-century; last but not least, there is not even a concept of a single Arab Muslim nation, let alone one great Nation of Islam.

This is because people will be people, and no two communities’ much loved and practised Islamic ideals really match for them to embrace an umbrella divine law under which everyone can live happily ever after. It hasn’t happened and it won’t happen for a long time. Why? Because all so-called ‘divine law’ is based on the interpretation of the divine sources by fallible, albeit great men of learning, who too could not but disagree with one another in their own historical times and spaces.

Hence the long recognised, at least, four major fiqhs of the majority Sunni Muslim creed alone. Add to them the many Shia sects and fiqhs, and you complete the picture of Muslim practices and beliefs as they exist today outside the sealed and closed minds of Pakistan’s religious ideologues. And then there are this country’s equally bona fide non-Muslim citizens, and ethno-centric communities, some as big as to qualify as successful nation states, Bangladesh being a very potent example in recent history.

What, then, can hold Pakistan together? The armed forces with a nuclear arsenal, and an unquestionable sense of patriotism that relies on a common majority faith as a basis of a nation state? Or is it a well developed human capital where everyone gets what they deserve, and everyone regardless of their religious or ethnic identity, becomes an equal stakeholder in being united as one nation? Sadly, the latter possibility cannot become a reality unless we revisit the way we have been looking at ourselves and seeking a gel in the very substance that continues to divide us.

Whilst for the proud Baloch, there can be little contradiction between being Baloch and Muslim, there are nothing but contradictions between being Baloch and a Pakistani Muslim as per the state’s prescription. Faith in Islam has not held back either our very practising Muslim security forces and intelligence apparatus or the Baloch nationalists from torturing or killing those who they believe are working against their respectively and, at variance, defined national interest.

The state must shed the burden of its imposed ideology, which parochially defines its citizens’ Islamic identity whilst making it controversial at the same time. This in turn negates the people’s respective ethnic identities and their status as equal citizens of the state. Thus, we end up with supposedly more patriotic Punjabis and Mohajirs, and now Pathans joining their ranks, united only against the revolting Baloch. In 1971 the first mentioned three communities came together to hold the majority Bengali traitors; today they’re being steered to holding the minority Baloch as being equally inimical to what remains of Pakistan.

United we fall? | Blog | DAWN.COM
 
The biggest mistake Pakistan made in Balochistan since 1947 was to appease the Sardars instead of improving the lot of ordinary Balochis. It is still not too late to improve the lot of Balochi masses through education and "Poverty Alleviation" Programs. Except for the three tribal Sardars ( i.e. Bugtis, Marris and Mengals ) who want to keep their people backward to keep their control on their lives, most ordinary Balochis could not care less for Baloch Liberation Movement. The issues of Balochi masses have to do with trying to earn a living and raising their kids.

The author of this piece has some other agenda and he needs to stop pretending like he is concerned about Pakistan's welfare. There are a number of pakistani journalist who have sold their journalistic integrity to make some money.
 
Demeaning the and reducing the influence of Baluch sardars is the quick fix at the moment....Pushtoon,barohi,Makrani and other Ethnicities must b given more power in the Province ..and The province should be divided into smaller parts..mainly on ethnic lines..
That way the trouble making Baluch sardars will be isolated
 
There are 5 steps to the Balochistan solution:

1. Kick the indians out of Afghanistan. Do anything you can to kick the indians out, even if it means sending ISI agents into Afghanistan to the job. indians have a huge role in supporting BLA/BNP terrorists in Balochistan province.

2. Bring a pro-pakistan government in neighboring Afghanistan just like in 1990's.

3. Put restrictions on liberal free secularist zionist media.

4. Kill all BLA/BNP terrorists. I don't care how many people cry about human rights violations. Turkish army show zero tolerance to Kurdish separatists, Iranian army show zero tolerance to the terrorists in their Sistan-Baluchistan province. Sri Lankan army showed zero tolerance to Tamil Tigers. Chinese army shows zero tolerance to Tibetan and Uighur separatists. Indian army has been killing Kashmiris and Sikhs for decades, most of Kashmir and Indian state of Punjab is still occupied by India.


And those comparing Balochistan to East Pakistan need a reality check. This is why I'm no longer supporting Imran Khan. East Pakistan at 1971 had more population than entire 4 provinces of Pakistan combined, and it was surrounded by India on all 4 corners far away from Pakistan. Imran Khan and the rest of you Baloch terrorist sympathizers are naive. Too many intelligence agencies have their eye on Balochistan Province. Let Pakistan Army and ISI do whatever they want in Balochistan Province. Pakistan army and ISI are hardcore Pakistani nationalists and will risk their lives to save each inch of Pakistan. If we didn't compromise on a small strip of land of Azad Kashmir what on earth makes you think Pakistan army will compromise on the largest province of Pakistan, Balochistan. And Pakistan Army and ISI is much more professional and stronger than 1971.


5. Eliminate the enemy while its weak, kill all the enemies of Pakistan.

Pakistan Zindabad !!!!!
 
I don't want to sound Pessimistic or anti-Pakistan but if Balochs get independence two possibilities are there:

Either

They will become more developed than the whole Pakistan now and if the state government will work for the citizen in the best way as the citizens demand there is a high chance that atleast three GCC governments will support it's admission to the GCC (Kuwait, UAE, Oman), although the admission wont be soon after their independence but in the long run it is very much likely.

or

If corruption prevails there, congratulations on the creation of another corrupt Islamic country on the world map.

Now the question remains what will happen of Pakistan after the separation?
 
IS Dawn a secular news paper because it doesn't report positively about pak. There has to be some good news about PAK right.
PAK at least needs its domestic media outlets to promote a positive impression about the country when all the zionists Intl media is hell bent propagating and twisting facts about PAK. Truly unfortunate.This dirt bag ideology of secularism is destroying muslim
countries. Can somebody tell me how popular dawn is in PAK?
 
I dont want to sound Pessimistic but if Balochs get independence two possibilities are there:

Either

They will become more developed than the whole Pakistan now and if the state government will work for the citizen in the best way as the citizens demand there is a high chance that atleast three GCC governments will support it's admission to the GCC (Kuwait, UAE, Oman), although the admission wont be soon after their independence but in the long run it is very much likely.

or

If corruption prevails there, congratulations on the creation of another corrupt Islamic country on the world map.

Now the question remains what will happen of Pakistan after the separation?

Their gas of which they are so proud of..Isnt dug out on shore and to export the gas abroad they will need Billions of dollars of investment...
Sui is almost in the middle op Pakistan next to Rahimya khan..
sui pakistan - Google Maps

and transporting gas to the sea will need infra structure which wont be easy to build...

Plus a pissed off Pakistan can easily keep disrupting their infra stucture same way as they are doing with Paksitan at this time....and that will compound their problems...

The foreign forces be it india..be it USA..Be it marsians or whoever is helping them in their current terrorism spree...wont just go away after Baluchistan gains independance..They will ask for their share in the Gas and whatever resources Baluchistan got...so there will be Indians and Americans taking away their gas instead of Paksitan an dnothin will change.

The problem was not that GOP was not giving Baluchistan their Royalties..It was just that GOP was not Depositing the royalties direct in the Bugti bank accounts..Thats why they are fighting and that what they want..

If they had anything to do with Baluchistan ordinary people's everyday life and development..the they always been in power in the province,they could have done a lot to develop the province instead of continuously playing a non stop blame game..

Punjab has developed without gas....Becasue no matter what PPP Msays Sharif Brothers have been loyal and sincere to Punjab and have been doing development work with whatever resources they had..

Why couldnt the Baluch and specially Bugti sardars do the same for their Province despite always being in POwer?

Will they do this after they are independant from Pakistan? I seriously doubt that..
 
IS Dawn a secular news paper because it doesn't report positively about pak. There has to be some good news about PAK right.

DAWN is a typical liberal fascist rag.

Most of the problems listed are due to the Punjabi/Sindhi feudal-dominated civilian government's incompetence and blatant racism against Bengalis/Baluchis. But these liberal fascists blame everything on Islam and the army. This is not to say that the army/ISI are without fault -- they have abused their powers -- but the root cause is the failure of civilian institutions (government, media, schools) to forge a common nationhood. It's not the army's job to create national unity; that's the job of the civilian institutions listed above.

These liberal fascists in the media never take responsibility for their own failures over the decades; instead, they mindlessly parrot Western/Indian propaganda to get a pat on the back for being good little "progressive" liberals.
 
Now comparing Baluchistan to other Provinces..
Why Baluchistan is on the verge of seperation and the rest of the provinces areant..???

Myself being from Hazara Division...we dont walk on streets made of Gold and if Baluchistan is backwards..many parts of other provinces are also backward...Go to Kohistan Division...Most Parts of Mansehra division..Chitral Diviion and you will find yourself in Changez Khan's era...these areas dont even look like being in 21st century..But have we heard crys of Freedom from these areas? no?

The thing is KPK is balanced in ethnicities...There are the Pushtoons and the Non Pushtoon People of Hazara,and Northern areas....and not only Pushtoons come to power..The last cheif Minister was a Hindko speaker from Abbottabad area..Mahtab Khan Abbasi...
If it was not for the ethnic minorities..ANP being the seperatist and racist as they are...would have asked for KPK indipendance long ago.

Same can be said about Punjab..There are Punjabi speakers and there are the saraiki speakers and all share power ..time to time.

Sindh is the same...Non ethnic sindhi settlers of southern sindh and the ethnic sindhis share power...

But in Baluchistan...its all about the Baluch..The pushtoons and the Barohis..the Persian speaking such as the Hazara of Quetta..are non existant in politics of Baluchistan and never come to power..
Now is the time..restore ethnic and political balance in the province..Like other porovinces of Pakistan Bring in the Baluchistan's ethnic minorities in the assemblies and to power..so that the Unchallenged power of the the Bugtis and Murrees is broken..
 
1. Kick the indians out of Afghanistan. Do anything you can to kick the indians out, even if it means sending ISI agents into Afghanistan to the job. indians have a huge role in supporting BLA/BNP terrorists in Balochistan province.

2. Bring a pro-pakistan government in neighboring Afghanistan just like in 1990's.


And u stil belive u guys can do it you cant do anything abt amriki who is in pakistan and u want kick out indians from afghanistan and bring pro-pakistani govt.in afghanistan and how u think u can do that when yr army cant stop afghan army who came few days back in pakistan and take some of yr guest with them :) dreaming is good but day dreaming :tdown:
 
Indian state of Punjab is still occupied by India.
yesterday most of the sikhs on this forum openly declared that they want to remain part of india but still it wont stop you guys from ranting about it as of kashmir is concerned we must like everyone show no tolerence of those terrorist and send them to hell
 
yesterday most of the sikhs on this forum openly declared that they want to remain part of india but still it wont stop you guys from ranting about it as of kashmir is concerned we must like everyone show no tolerence of those terrorist and send them to hell

They were all Bots and trolls...Real sikh want freedom...
 
Let's give up Baluchistan, I agree there is no point length discussions and will likely to solve it themselves.

No point in discussing external element in Balochistan: FO

341504-abdulbasitafp-1330146111-900-640x480.jpg

Foreign office spokesperson insists no point in discussing that publicly.

ISLAMABAD: While there may be ‘undeniable evidence’ of the involvement of ‘external forces’ behind the Balochistan unrest, the government, for once, is looking inwards.

“There has been evidence of external involvement in Balochistan. Some forces have been trying to destabilise the situation in the province,” Foreign Office spokesperson Abdul Basit said in his weekly briefing on Friday

He would not identify those ‘external elements’ however, insisting there was no point in discussing such matters publicly.

In the past, Islamabad pointed fingers at India for exploiting the ongoing law and order problem in the province. Some rightwing elements have also accused the US of encouraging Baloch dissidents to foment violence in the province.

But the government has recently stepped up efforts to seek an internal, political solution to the problem.

Basit confirmed that Foreign Minister Hina Rabbani Khar raised the issue of a resolution tabled in the American Congress, seeking right of self-determination for Balochis with her US counterpart Hillary Clinton on Thursday in London, on the sidelines of the Somalia conference.

The spokesperson described the Khar-Clinton meeting as “positive and constructive”. It was the first high level interaction between the two countries, since their relations hit rock-bottom late last year over the Nato airstrikes on Pakistani check posts killing 24 soldiers.

“Pakistan-US relations are important and we are trying to make this transparent and predictable,” he added, reiterating that relations with the US would proceed in light of parliamentary guidelines.

Published in The Express Tribune, February 25th, 2012

--------------------------

‘One congressman’s views don’t represent US’


341510-davidphotoPID-1330144983-901-640x480.jpg


ISLAMABAD: US congressman David Dreier has said that the views of one man do not represent that of the entire state, and that most US lawmakers do not agree with earlier expressed views regarding Balochistan.

David, who is also the chairman of the House Democracy Partnership and the House Rules Committee, was speaking on the issue of Balochistan and the resolution moved at the US House of Representatives.

“I believe that the statement of one member is not indicative of the overwhelming will of the US Congress or of the government,” he said, while speaking to reporters at the Pakistan Institute for Parliamentary Services (PIPS).

Congressman David Dreier is leading a US congressional delegation to Pakistan, which is the first ever high-profile visit from the US after the Salala incident plunged relations between the two countries to a new low. Twenty-four Pakistani soldiers were killed at the Salala check post by US planes in November last year.

In a strong reaction to the incident, Islamabad blocked Nato supply routes in the country and canceled a number of bilateral visits.

Replying to a question, Dreier said “the Salala attack was a sad incident”. He said military men and women both in Pakistan and US are courageous people, and the loss of lives of those who are focused on security was horrifying.

“We are deeply saddened, but it is a very complex situation keeping in view the challenge at the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan; there is uncertainty at this border.”

He said, “We continue to condole those families who lost their relatives in this incident, but it is important for us to move ahead. I believe that this high level visit from the US, at the invitation of the government of Pakistan, is a clear indication of the desire to build these relations once again.”

He added that it would help in ensuring the goals of providing jobs, security, progress and prosperity in Pakistan.

Further talking about the Pak-US relations, he admitted that difficulties do exist.

“We have a common enemy, which is radical elements who want to kill innocent citizens, and we are determined to do everything possible to bring that to an end. It is the universal right of people to believe they can live in peace and security.”

Published in The Express Tribune, February 25th, 2012.

Case closed!
 
Playing a blame game on Foreign powers even when they are involved..wont solve anything..Internal politics and wise decisions will solve it...
So in a way they are right in saying so.
 

Country Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom