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Pakistan to change in next five weeks, claims Imran Khan

I know what he said about Pakistan changing, and not that he will change Pakistan, in five weeks.

It is showing "green gardens" still because nothing will change in five weeks in Pakistan. The topi drama called "elections" will lurch to its confused conclusion, and the next round of failures will begin.

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@Awesome: You have closed that thread, but your last post quoting me was:



Please note that this is what I had said earlier:



Your name-calling is totally unnecessary and dare I say, does not suit your title and position in this forum. Aaap ko zaib nahi deytaa, aagey app kee marzi.

I wasn't calling you a paindu - just the discussion of who one screws in a political candidate's discussion.

62, 63 does not apply on Imran as none of this occurred in Pakistan, he wasn't convicted in Pakistan. To get a conviction, someone will have a to file a case against Imran Khan in a Pakistani court and as the court has already set a precedent in the case of Veena Malik, where they did not prosecute her for her bare skinned photography in India, they will not prosecute Imran Khan for his alleged crime either.

Why do you think NS is going through ECP and not the courts? ECP requires just getting one returning officer declaring him disqualified.

Anyway the reason I closed the thread is that, it sets a bad precedent in Pakistan. We are letting people go off, after actual crimes against the state, looting and plundering which affects US, and emphasizing on a meaningless thing. If you think Imran is a good political candidate and you want to have an academic discussion on this, it can wait until and after elections.
 
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Well if he is going to replace just the corrupts, even if he doesn't do anything at all. Things will improve on the basis of people of Pakistan.
 
I am sorry but this particular statement was made in the context of upcoming elections. He didn't say that "i will change Pakistan in 5 weeks" but "Pakistan will change in the next 5 weeks [After elections]".

Thanks

hmmm....i agree even transfer of power and rule successfully and democratically in current law and order situation is itself a big achievement,specially for a country like Pakistan,who always experience Marshall Law due to deals of our goons with west..!!!
 
I wasn't calling you a paindu - just the discussion of who one screws in a political candidate's discussion.

62, 63 does not apply on Imran as none of this occurred in Pakistan, he wasn't convicted in Pakistan. To get a conviction, someone will have a to file a case against Imran Khan in a Pakistani court and as the court has already set a precedent in the case of Veena Malik, where they did not prosecute her for her bare skinned photography in India, they will not prosecute Imran Khan for his alleged crime either.

Why do you think NS is going through ECP and not the courts? ECP requires just getting one returning officer declaring him disqualified.

Anyway the reason I closed the thread is that, it sets a bad precedent in Pakistan. We are letting people go off, after actual crimes against the state, looting and plundering which affects US, and emphasizing on a meaningless thing. If you think Imran is a good political candidate and you want to have an academic discussion on this, it can wait until and after elections.

I understand your position better now, Sir.

If I understand you correctly, in your view, good moral character and being a good Muslim is applicable only within Pakistan. Since Imran Khan's transgressions were abroad and not taken to court within Pakistan, 62/63 does not apply. To remain consistent, would you say the same for any other politician whose has holding companies abroad with lots of unexplained monetary assets, since they are abroad and not legally contested within Pakistan?
 
would you say the same for any other politician whose has holding companies abroad with lots of unexplained monetary assets, since they are abroad and not legally contested within Pakistan?

But wasn't the money taken out from Pakistan in the first place?
 
Please don't mind the crude analogy, but so was the sperm that made that little girl.

But the sperm wasn't Pakistan's property, the money in most cases is.

And having a illicit relationship isn't a crime is it? Immoral it maybe, but not a crime as I understand.
 
I understand your position better now, Sir.

If I understand you correctly, in your view, good moral character and being a good Muslim is applicable only within Pakistan. Since Imran Khan's transgressions were abroad and not taken to court within Pakistan, 62/63 does not apply. To remain consistent, would you say the same for any other politician whose has holding companies abroad with lots of unexplained monetary assets, since they are abroad and not legally contested within Pakistan?

That's a very skewed definition of "understanding it better". It is a common mistake of people who either knowingly or unknowingly want to mix legality with personal beliefs. To disqualify is a LEGAL matter, not a moral one. Judging morality to decide whether or not we should vote for him is more related to personal beliefs. I can vote for Satan too, if I was stupid like so many people who do vote for mini Satans in Pakistan, as long as Satan was legally okay. Personal belief right?

The moronic irony is that we are not questioning Satan who barely are escaping their legal grounds for disqualification but are treating Angels with suspicion over inconsequential matters.

1) This law is stupid. So if to beat this law a loophole is used, its perfectly okay in my books. A legal loophole is at the end of the day LEGAL. Anti-corruption laws are not stupid. This law should be abolished along with all theocratic nonsense in the constitution.

From a national point of view his alleged one night stand is inconsequential in determining morality. Unless you are an Islamist its of no consequence.

2) Transgressions have not been proven in a court of law in Pakistan, verdicts were given WITHOUT a paternity test. Imran Khan has never on record accepted paternity.

3) Legally speaking he is on solid grounds, the ECP returning officer ruled in a similar fashion. He said don't give me newspaper cutouts, give me some official documentation proving paternity. Since a paternity test was not taken, there's no official document.

4) Morally speaking, from the bit we are concerned - he did not loot anyone, he is hardworking, honest and has good policies set up for Pakistan he is a good candidate. You can perhaps PROVE his legal guilt, but you KNOW he's good for Pakistan. You can't prove all our Satan's legal guilt but you KNOW they are bad for Pakistan.

I would never ask anybody to be PUNISHED (whether its jailtime or disqualification) without a competent court of Pakistan finding them guilty, no matter how stupid the law they may represent, we have to honor the courts... But a vote is my call right? I would encourage you and everybody else to vote in a way that's good for Pakistan.

5) To add to the moral part, any person's tobah also counts. We have to see how he has behaved since and we can see that he has even been a good moral human being even from an Islamists point of view.
 
You know, there was no civilian leader in Pakistan more powerful than Z.A. Bhutto but even he ended up making all sorts of compromises. We Americans know it's a mistake to put your faith in princes, no matter how well-intentioned you think they are. Wouldn't Pakistan be better served with fifty Imran Khans, not just one, in peaceful democratic competition and debate with one another?
 
But the sperm wasn't Pakistan's property, the money in most cases is.

And having a illicit relationship isn't a crime is it? Immoral it maybe, but not a crime as I understand.

Well, according to 62/63, having illicit relationships is a bar to contesting elections, in that it violates good moral and Islamic character requirements. Unless, of course, you agree with @Awesome that as long as the illicit relationship and fathering a child out of wedlock comes under the purview of 62/63 only if happens within Pakistan.

.................
1) This law is stupid. So if to beat this law a loophole is used, its perfectly okay in my books. A legal loophole is at the end of the day LEGAL. Anti-corruption laws are not stupid. This law should be abolished along with all theocratic nonsense in the constitution.......................

I can agree with the above part wholeheartedly. This law should be abolished so that Imran Khan, as well as Zardari, Musharraf, Nawaz Sharif and all other stalwarts of Pakistani politics are judged on the basis of their performance, not the perception of their morals as defined by an arbitrary and stupid law.

However, as @nuclearpak said before, like it or not, it is still part of the Constitution, and it must be followed for this election until it is removed.
 
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I can agree with the above part wholeheartedly. This law should be abolished so that Imran Khan, as well as Zardari, Musharraf, Nawaz Sharif and all other stalwarts of Pakistani politics are judged on the basis of their performance, not the perception of their morals as defined by an arbitrary and stupid law.

However, as @nuclearpak said before, like it or not, it is still part of the Constitution, and it must be followed for this election until it is removed.

And ECP IS following it, there's just no way to PROVE his violation of 62/63 and as shown by the ECP it followed the law.

The law was stupid to begin with so whatever loopholes it may have should not bother anyone.

Yes anti-corruption laws should be followed and loopholes should be removed.

Imran’s papers for NA 56 accepted

When Additional District and Sessions Judge Naeem Arshad started the scrutiny process, complainant Hafeez Abbasi’s counsel Raja Shujaur Rehman alleged that Imran Khan was a gambler, liar and adulterer, which were a clear violation of Articles 62 and 63 of the constitution.

However, Imran Khan’s counsel Malik Ehtisham said the allegations were baseless and based on rumours which had turned out to be wrong in the past too.

He said there was no confessional statement made by the PTI chief in his book Me and My Pakistan. He asked the petitioner’s counsel to produce evidence to substantiate his allegations, which he failed to produce.

Upon this, the returning officer accepted the nomination of Imran Khan.

If you are talking about disqualification then talk in terms of LEGALITY.

If you are talking morals then talk in terms of what really matters on a national level.
 
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And ECP IS following it, there's just no way to PROVE his violation of 62/63 and as shown by the ECP it followed the law.

The law was stupid to begin with so whatever loopholes it may have should not bother anyone.

Yes anti-corruption laws should be followed and loopholes should be removed.

Imran’s papers for NA 56 accepted



If you are talking about disqualification then talk in terms of LEGALITY.

If you are talking morals then talk in terms of what really matters on a national level.

I think we have both made our points. May 11 is not that far away anyway. Now that some papers have been accepted and some have been rejected by arbitrary application of a law we both agree is stupid, let's look forward as to how an election based on such a foundation delivers results that are somehow better for Pakistan.

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Take a look at this story @Awesome and tell me that this is not a potential ticking time bomb under the next government, no matter who is declared the winner:

http://www.geo.tv/GeoDetail.aspx?ID=95703

ECP says fraudsters will not be spared even after winning elections

April 07, 2013

ISLAMABAD: Election Commission of Pakistan (ECP) Sunday said that the scrutiny of the declarations made in the nomination papers would continue even after the elections and those found to have deceived would be declared disqualified ever after winning the elections, Geo News reported.

ECP Additional Secretary Afzal Khan replying to a question clarified that the process of scrutiny would continue even after elections.

It may be recalled that today (Sunday) is the last day for scrutiny of electoral nomination papers

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Grounds for such turmoil within Parliament as it attempts to form a government and then lead the country out of such a difficult situation cannot be condoned.
 
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I think we have both made our points. May 11 is not that far away anyway. Now that some papers have been accepted and some have been rejected by arbitrary application of a law we both agree is stupid, let's look forward as to how an election based on such a foundation delivers results that are somehow better for Pakistan.

--------------------------------------------------------

Take a look at this story @Awesome and tell me that this is not a potential ticking time bomb under the next government, no matter who is declared the winner:

ECP says fraudsters will not be spared even after winning elections | Pakistan - geo.tv

ECP says fraudsters will not be spared even after winning elections

April 07, 2013

ISLAMABAD: Election Commission of Pakistan (ECP) Sunday said that the scrutiny of the declarations made in the nomination papers would continue even after the elections and those found to have deceived would be declared disqualified ever after winning the elections, Geo News reported.

ECP Additional Secretary Afzal Khan replying to a question clarified that the process of scrutiny would continue even after elections.

It may be recalled that today (Sunday) is the last day for scrutiny of electoral nomination papers

------------------------------------------------------

Grounds for such turmoil within Parliament as it attempts to form a government and then lead the country out of such a difficult situation cannot be condoned.

62,63 is merely just shuggal for returning officers from what I came to know. People are saying its all laughs and smiles when they ask politicians "teesra kalma sunao". Basically they've been given a lot of ragra power but overall the understanding is to not to seriously implement it.

Only in Musharraf's case it was seriously implemented due to the RO having his own prejudices.

Hopefully after the elections 62,63 can be done away with after we have seen such horrendous implications of it.
 
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62,63 is merely just shuggal for returning officers from what I came to know. People are saying its all laughs and smiles when they ask politicians "teesra kalma sunao". Basically they've been given a lot of ragra power but overall the understanding is to not to seriously implement it.

Only in Musharraf's case it was seriously implemented due to the RO having his own prejudices.

Hopefully after the elections 62,63 can be done away with after we have seen such horrendous implications of it.

Treating constitutional provision as shugal, using them for ragra, not be seriously implemented, except in selected cases such as Musharraf - are all hallmarks of treating the law as a personal servant. No nation that behaves so cavalierly towards its own laws can amount to anything, despite tall and noble claims to the contrary.
 
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