Pakistan striving for glorification of Islam

[White Baaz]

First, I would like you to dig into history (not what ur history teacher taught u or what u find in biased books - but the classical history books) and see how different Islam was from a church dominated government. Islam encouraged science & knowledge...the very enlightened knowledge and theories you have in science are all based on islamic principles. Obviously, there always somebody who misuse the religion but unlike christianity where everyone other than christian was declared as one u should and must kill (see about your crusades and what chaos they brought to people living in peace, look at ur spanish and portugues masacres, british and dutch massacres). Even this day your country is led by people whose teacher was the most powerfull nazi law maker, who could justify any crimes. That is the secular gov. you are talking about. Before you make such statements, look into your congress mens and senators background. Who is running you country??? A powerfull jewish (zionist, whose religion is to treat other civilisations as their slave, who want other people to accept their racism) lobby and hard core christians. Yet, it is secular for you - while you are caring out crusade against 1.5 billion people. Read you facts first, then think about any conspiracy theory. Everything is in front of you...read you own Pentagon's declassified archives...read your own leader's biographies and theories. Go and see what your most powerfull politic teaching institutions such as University of Chigago and Harvard teach thos who is and will lead your country. Even when it was the church running the show - it was called dark ages and you know why!

Islam protected the females, Islam encourage to free a slave centuries before you would make yourself rich on it. Islam brought humanity in people, taught them tolerance, to live in peace with other religions, to invite people to islam not force them, to give the human being 5 basic rights - while ur civilised world only are talking about 3. Yet, you took most of this so-called civilised principles from Islam and call it the bad thing. Please do understand the reality instead of blindly following the crowd or media. I could list things on and on....but let me give you an example: The justice was so powerfull that even the Caliphs were brought in courts. One of them (the third biggest khalifa) even lost the case against a jew. That is justice!!!
The teachings of Islam was thus, so in 8th/9th centuries the hospital (structure of present hospitals with different wards,etc. is based on it) was not only including treatment wards, but mosque, chapels (for people of other belief), staff living quarters, research facilities, training facilities, etc. And when the patient was to leave after a treatment, he would get money from the hospital as compensation for the lost work and untill he could go on work again! Thats called a civilisation following the teachings of Islam.
I dont have time to put up everything here...but you can do your own research! The chaos is not because of Islam or God - but because people went away from Islam and God.

Prove it? Ali it might be truth for you, but is it the only truth? It is not tru for me, and I think you would reject my truth just as readily. Now doe sthat mean niethe rone of us truly loves God beucase we don't accept the others truth? Of course not, if we really sought after God then the truth we found os the truth he revealed.

It depends on what prove you are asking for. You have the ability to think, I suppose. Firstly, you can just go out in nature, observe it. To make it easier for you, just study Quantum theory of physics and Cell biology. You would have to accept that there is a creator and evolution is just a terrible joke(if you are interested, you can read Intelligent Design and about Evolution - and you will quickly find out the broken links in the theory of evolution, cuz nothing can just become in existence in a perfect manner as is in nature)! Afterwards, read what Quran says...read how many thing you have been told in Islam/Qruan are true - and your christian scientists are proving more and more of it true. One good example(there are a lot others): The reproduction system, the discover even won a Nobel Prize. He became muslim, because he intiated the research to see if it was like as told in Quran. To prove such things, you have to believe in metaphysical things and then you can use evidence and logic to see how true the message is.

 

[zraver]

First, I would like you to dig into history (not what ur history teacher taught u or what u find in biased books - but the classical history books) and see how different Islam was from a church dominated government. Islam encouraged science & knowledge...the very enlightened knowledge and theories you have in science are all based on islamic principles

Not quite, well not even close. Early Islam did encourage science and knowledge, but this golden age was very breif and was damn near dead by the begining of the Spanish Caliphate. Modern scientific thought and models are not islamic in orgin but are based on modes of thinking that came out of the reformation period of the church. To try and deny men like Bacon thier due or to co-opt thier achievements into some one elses religion is dishinest.

Obviously, there always somebody who misuse the religion but unlike christianity where everyone other than christian was declared as one u should and must kill (see about your crusades and what chaos they brought to people living in peace, look at ur spanish and portugues masacres, british and dutch massacres). Even this day your country is led by people whose teacher was the most powerfull nazi law maker, who could justify any crimes. That is the secular gov. you are talking about. Before you make such statements, look into your congress mens and senators background. Who is running you country??? A powerfull jewish (zionist, whose religion is to treat other civilisations as their slave, who want other people to accept their racism) lobby and hard core christians. Yet, it is secular for you - while you are caring out crusade against 1.5 billion people. Read you facts first, then think about any conspiracy theory.

1- America is run by a Nazi Law maker? You just disgraced the 11 million men and wemon including hundreds of thousand sof dead who fought to defeat Hitler. I hope your happy.

2- Killing non-beleivers is exclusively Christian. Lets talk about the massacre at Trebizond, the Armenian Genocide, the expuslion of non-muslims from Arabia

3- Zionist conspiracy- Sorry but you jsut said Ameirca was led by a Nazi- now you say we are controlled by a Jew. Do those two statements make any kind of sense?

4- Crusade agaisnt 1.5 bilion people- While I do agree tha tthe term crusade is fititgn for the WoT as a counter-point to the jihad being waged agaisnt us. I do not accpet that America is at war with 1.5 billion muslims, Bosnia, Kosovo, Kuwait, Iran, Pakistan, Somalia, Indonesia, Turkey etc what all these countries have in common is the the massive amount of emergancy assistence the US provided when the word, turned upside down with disaster. Eggypt, iran, Suadi Arabia, Pakistan the 4 mor epowerful countries in the islamic world all four use US weapons (Iran's are old). The US did not send monelky models or hand me downs but current rechnology that let Muslim nations fpor the first time equal Israel (what was that you said about a zionist conspiracy?)

Read you facts first, then think about any conspiracy theory. Everything is in front of you...read you own Pentagon's declassified archives...read your own leader's biographies and theories. Go and see what your most powerfull politic teaching institutions such as University of Chigago and Harvard teach thos who is and will lead your country. Even when it was the church running the show - it was called dark ages and you know why!

Perhaps you should take your own advice. You honestly think a nation of a third of a billion people form every faith on Earth includ9ing more Muslims than most Arab countries who has a history of always extending a hand to help even to our enemies is out to wage a crusade on 1.5 billion people on behalf of a few million jews.

Islam protected the females, Islam encourage to free a slave centuries before you would make yourself rich on it. Islam brought humanity in people, taught them tolerance, to live in peace with other religions, to invite people to islam not force them, to give the human being 5 basic right

making women second class citizens is not protecting them
Your book said freeing a slave was good, but islamic culture created the African salve trade and kept it going for far longer tha tthe whiteman did, and took far more slaves due to the huge leangth of time it was practiced.

As for Human Rights, the secualr view is best outlined in either the bill of Rights (10 listings) or the UNUDHR (dozens) not three and not five at a minimum it is double what Islam grants.

Please do understand the reality instead of blindly following the crowd or media. I could list things on and on....but let me give you an example: The justice was so powerfull that even the Caliphs were brought in courts. One of them (the third biggest khalifa) even lost the case against a jew. That is justice!!!

And..... So fa rius jsut over 200 years 2 US presidents have been impeached, 1 forced to resing and 1 beaten in court by a woman. Million smore won freedom from bondage and secodn class status........ Thats Justice

The teachings of Islam was thus, so in 8th/9th centuries the hospital (structure of present hospitals with different wards,etc. is based on it) was not only including treatment wards, but mosque, chapels (for people of other belief), staff living quarters, research facilities, training facilities, etc. And when the patient was to leave after a treatment, he would get money from the hospital as compensation for the lost work and untill he could go on work again! Thats called a civilisation following the teachings of Islam.

Uhmm the Romans had hospitals, the modenr hospital system is a hodge[podge that does not trace its existecne to any sinualr influence. What is known is that islamic medicine peaked just before the sacking og baghdad by the Mongols and it never recovered. medicine shifted to India and Spain and was taken over by other faiths, but then the Moslems had taken it over from the Greeks.

It depends on what prove you are asking for. You have the ability to think, I suppose. Firstly, you can just go out in nature, observe it.

I would agree that I can find of God, but not proof of Islam. In islam the father is award custody- in nature it is the mother who is the care provider. In Islam non-muslims are seocnd class citizens- in nature leadership of groups is detemriedn by ability not beleif etc.

To make it easier for you, just study Quantum theory of physics and Cell biology.

I would ask you to read to the Koran description of the formation of the fetus- it is backwards as it shows the bones beign formed beofre the skin when in fact the bones are last, this is jsut one of many scientific gaffs in the Koran beicase Muhammed just regurgitated the accpeted Hellenic views of his time. These views were also accpeted by the west until cadaver research during the age of discovery. Since the information is factually incorrect it is not form God.

Islam's glory or any relgions glory is in how it improves the lot in life of those who follow it by grantign them peace and serenity. Glory is not found in pigeonholing God into some make beleive cookie cutter mold.

 

[zraver]

Don't ge tme wrong, I fully accpet that a dedicated soul can find God through Islam. God is great enough to find anyone who looks for him. I do however reject that islam is the only path to God., or that its system of rulership and class division is perfect or even possible given human nature.

 

[White Baaz]

Find out how many Neo-cons are the leaders of US...then find who their teacher was...Look on who Leo Strauss was. And who his teacher was....all the thought and way of thinking directly back to a Nazi law maker!!!!

Why don't you go and find about how powefull the zionist lobby is...and then see how good the above mentioned neo-cons suits their purpose. The zionist are not religious jewish but political! Maybe you should read protocol of Zion...and now don't come and say that was only propaganda. A quote to remind you of your pride:
"I want to tell you something very clear, don't worry about American pressure on Israel, we, the Jewish people control America, and the Americans know it."-- Ariel Sharon to Shimon Peres, October 3rd, 2001, as reported on Kol Yisrael radio.

Similar words came from Benjamin Nethanyahu: If America goes against us, we will destroy Washington, set it in fire. And the Americans know that!
There are a lot of other proofs, which I dont want to dig up now...find them yourself. But that is the reality, not what Fox news or CNN shows you.

For the period of Islam...and the science & technology; you seem to ignorant and arrogant to make a study and just base your arguments on what u know or have been taught in literature. The Muslim did not take it from Greeks, the greeks even didn't have such an advanced way of evidence and proof based science in their culture. Again, get your facts right!!! This is a clear example of how people like interpret history like it is your own, just as one of your senior officials named Karl Rove said: We make our own reality! And befor people realize it, we make a new one!

I have read Quran myself, and I know it much better than you. The description in Quran is exactly how it happens and also available in scientific literature.

Well, if you want to expand the rights, then there is lot more in Islam. I was talking about 3 BASIC rights.

The womens nor the people of other beliefs are not 2nd class citizen, it is your ignorance and lack of knowledge. About the father example you gave: A mothers status is much more than a father.

All the comments you said were clearly full of lack of knowledge about the reality and how it was - that is what happens when you make your own reality. When you have done your study, come and I can take the discussion with you.

One final Question; instead of going into long typings... What is Islamic teachings on "how to live as a society and how to rule a country"??? It will quickly show us how much knowledge you have about it - while making statements against Islam.

 

[zraver]

The protocols of Zion have been proven over and over again to be the creation of the Tzarist Secret Police in order to stir up anti-semitism to divert domestic pressure inside Imperial Russia.

The Moslems did borrow from the greeks

The bones are formed last

If you don't have politcal power you are a second class citizen

leo Strauss fled Germany fled Germany beofre Hitler's rise to power and only returned once in 1952. He was also Jewish, so how can a jew who left Germany before Hitler came to power be a nazi lawmaker?

Not one Islamic govemrent has ever delivered politcal parity betwen the sexes or religions thus is it not perfect. All Islamic goverment relies on the supremecy of Islam, rather than the supremecy of God.

I am not speaking against the faith of Islam, I am refuting the islamisist who would use God to gain politcal power throiugh hatered and division

 

[White Baaz]

Protocols of zion - You do not know your stuff!

Leo strauss:
My fault, I appology. It was not himself but his mentor who he really looked up to Carl Schmitt, who were top Nazi lawyer. One of the top academics in America ,Dr. Boyle, who studies with these neo-cons, will tell you where their mentality and mentality of Leo Strauss came from. He simply call these neo-cons for neo-nazis! Go do your research...instead of pretending you know a lot.

Muslims borrowed from greeks? Spare us for such rubbish nonsense! Stop reading bullshit.

Yes, the muslims collected all the present knowledge to learn, increase their knowledge, but took it to a level beyond any at that time. They did not borrow...they did lay the foundation of the spirit of questioning and observation, experiment based evidence. Who is Averousa? A muslim, and West is so produ of him that they even gave him a western name, just like Avicenna (Ibn-Sina)...Averousa was one of the first to set conditions for how the evidence based science should be defined. His work was the first building block in your rennaisance in 16th centure, why Raphael included him in his picturing of rennaisance personalities. At a time where your big scholars places should be lucky to have few books, muslims had booksellers in every city...libraries, universities. Where did the Jewish had their golden era after they were expelled from Israel 6000 years ago? Ask anybody jew, who knows his history and are telling to admit it. Where did the christians learn the special architecture of cathedrals in big european cities? Cordoba!!!!

I have done it a bit easier for you as I didn't took litterature, where you could say its because muslims are writting it! Watch the video "Empire of Faith", especially second part - the commentary is by American academics.

Read this article (there are lot of others):

[Documentary basis for research on the transfer of Islamic medical science to the European West] by Kujundzić E.

http://www.muslimheritage.com/uploads/Introduction_to_Muslim Science.pdf

This text explain a bit about you illusions about where you science come from and gives you a hint about where to find more information (still western writers).

You know the reason why this reality and truth had been hidden and not given anywhere? Because people like you cannot face it will not admit it that Muslims indeed were those behind the current science! Few of your scholars admit it, but you the ordinary people then don't like them, because they are giving them the bitter truth!

I live in West, I have nothing against west...but when people begin hiding the history as it is and begin saying crap, it annoys me. I was like you before, because I had all my knowledge programmed as after the greeks there were dark ages, and muslims then carried the knowledge from greek to us....that is the biggest lie! And I have spoken to history scholars about it...I know my at this point...don't come and think you know what you are talking about, for surely you have no knowledge about it.

Read what Bernard (Middle East expert) and other has to say about it....

These are just few samples...as these should be enough keep quite and not pretend as you have knowledge about it.



For the being of second class citizen and bones comes first?! You must be a fool, if you think you can come and teach me Islam! Spare us muslims from such idiotic statements...first learn what Islam is, then talk!!!!!!!! We would highly appreciate it!



Statements of a few prominent scientists (non-muslims) about Quran:

http://www.islam-guide.com/frm-ch1-1-h.htm


I could come up with a lot more....but this is my final post in this thread! You are simply up to wasting my time and nothing you say has any research or facts behind it....
I had to post this as a proof for the others, that you are not right...I just don't want to waste my time against ignorant people, who stick to biased books or just a search on wikipedia.


PS. I appologize for my language, if you find it offensive...but next time, think before you want to speak about stuff you have NO knowledge of.