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Pakistan Spaceport Plans! PSDP 2020-2021 Highlights.

The only issue I see here that we have a success story of our own, PAEC and the original group that brought nuclear tech to Pakistan, established the base for it and made sure we raised generations of scientists capable of adding value to the program.

But we have since just failed at replicating the example in any other program. Everywhere I look, within the forces or outside. With programs or such. The issue remains the same, people - specially from the previous generation are more of a hurdle than help. And this issue isn’t going away anytime soon.
 
The only issue I see here that we have a success story of our own, PAEC and the original group that brought nuclear tech to Pakistan, established the base for it and made sure we raised generations of scientists capable of adding value to the program.

But we have since just failed at replicating the example in any other program. Everywhere I look, within the forces or outside. With programs or such. The issue remains the same, people - specially from the previous generation are more of a hurdle than help. And this issue isn’t going away anytime soon.

I think the problem is that in nuclear case, we had to do it by ourselves since no one else will help you, you can't just buy nukes.

In other areas, you can just buy most other military equipment hence Pakistan has a harder time replicating success with PAEC unless it is forced to like nukes.
 
I was being sarcastic but yeah I wish I was joking

Not being able to transfer tech within Pakistan is absolutely one of the most basic tasks that we should be able to do. I struggle to understand how any government can be incompetent enough to not fix something like this.

But it does explain many things such as why Pakistan has:

-No Space Program
-No Cyber Program
-No Drone Program
-No Hypersonic Program
-Weak Missile Program
What do you want spend the whole budget of Pakistan on defense????
 
SUPARCO - Space Infrastructure
- Establishment of Pakistan Space Centre (PSC)
- Feasibility and System Definition Study (FSDS) of Spaceport

- Feasibility and System Definitation Study (FSDS) of Pakistan's Optical Remote Sensing Satellite (PRSS-02)
- Pakistan MULTI-MISSION Satellite (PakSat-MMI)
- Feasibility and System Definition Study (FSDS) of Pakistan Satellite Navigation Programme (PSNP)


PAEC:
- Pakistan Research Reactor-3 (10MWth upgradable to 20 MWth)


https://www.pc.gov.pk/uploads/archives/PSDP_2020-21.pdf

My dear friend, space program sounds all nice on paper. However when we live in a country where we have land-mafia, diesel-mafia, lawyer-mafia, judges-mafia, sugar-mafia and wheat-mafia. There is no point in talking about space. You want Pakistan to have a fledgling Space Program? Then Pakistanis must first focus on the systematic destruction of corrupt state officials, bureaucrats, political mafia-groups and corrupt supreme court system.

Why not spend the PKR 5 billion on a standardized, quality education for the 70 million Pakistani children? Why not spend PKR 100 billion on establishing free education for Pakistani children? Why not spend money on sponsoring merit based Pakistani graduates for Higher Education studies abroad. So these students can then return and be offered jobs where they bring their knowledge and spread it to the rest of the 200 million Pakistanis here?

Unless Pakistanis actually make the effort to eliminate corruption in all its shapes and sizes. There is no point talking about space ports, space stations or anything else.
 
Hi guys,

Any worthwhile updates to share from this critical lil' mass in one dark corner of PDF? Btw, love u guys to the core! May Allah bless aameen.
 
My dear friend, space program sounds all nice on paper. However when we live in a country where we have land-mafia, diesel-mafia, lawyer-mafia, judges-mafia, sugar-mafia and wheat-mafia. There is no point in talking about space. You want Pakistan to have a fledgling Space Program? Then Pakistanis must first focus on the systematic destruction of corrupt state officials, bureaucrats, political mafia-groups and corrupt supreme court system.

Why not spend the PKR 5 billion on a standardized, quality education for the 70 million Pakistani children? Why not spend PKR 100 billion on establishing free education for Pakistani children? Why not spend money on sponsoring merit based Pakistani graduates for Higher Education studies abroad. So these students can then return and be offered jobs where they bring their knowledge and spread it to the rest of the 200 million Pakistanis here?

Unless Pakistanis actually make the effort to eliminate corruption in all its shapes and sizes. There is no point talking about space ports, space stations or anything else.
It is totally ridiculous. Building and progressing towards spaceport will support very advanced academic knowledge base and research institutes within country. Many supporting industries will be developed and groomed within country. It will lead to educational and industrial base which will ultimate give more employment.
 
It is totally ridiculous. Building and progressing towards spaceport will support very advanced academic knowledge base and research institutes within country. Many supporting industries will be developed and groomed within country. It will lead to educational and industrial base which will ultimate give more employment.

India is constantly expanding its industry and capability, has enough satellites to look at any nook and cranny in Pakistan, but yet when it should be Pakistan seeking to gain a surveillance advantage due to India's multiple times larger land mass, it's Pakistan that is not only slacking but being traitorous with such a critical national security matter.
 
It is totally ridiculous. Building and progressing towards spaceport will support very advanced academic knowledge base and research institutes within country. Many supporting industries will be developed and groomed within country. It will lead to educational and industrial base which will ultimate give more employment.

The education system is broken, with capitalist, money hungry schools make it impossible for a majority of the population to receive a respectable standard of education. Building a space port, sure go ahead. But doesn't solve the endemic problem of pathetic standard of education, which isn't standardized, where majority of the children have zero access to climb the intellectual ladder due to lack of money. And even when you have money, the standard of education is hopelessly bouncing off one wall to another. It's what happens when Pakistan has been ruled by a bunch of Jahils, in turn churning out further Jahil mentality into the population.

Go ahead with your glorified space port, brushing the reality under the carpet. It's vain, without mass segment of Pakistani youngsters expected to somehow fly up to the requirements in order to be hired for jobs at your sparkling little space port.

Without a solid foundation in education, you have a future full of j@ck@$$es like bilawal, sharif sons and little diesel'ets running around like frenzied bacteria, contaminating Pakistan's intellectual pool.
 
The education system is broken, with capitalist, money hungry schools make it impossible for a majority of the population to receive a respectable standard of education. Building a space port, sure go ahead. But doesn't solve the endemic problem of pathetic standard of education, which isn't standardized, where majority of the children have zero access to climb the intellectual ladder due to lack of money. And even when you have money, the standard of education is hopelessly bouncing off one wall to another. It's what happens when Pakistan has been ruled by a bunch of Jahils, in turn churning out further Jahil mentality into the population.

Go ahead with your glorified space port, brushing the reality under the carpet. It's vain, without mass segment of Pakistani youngsters expected to somehow fly up to the requirements in order to be hired for jobs at your sparkling little space port.

Without a solid foundation in education, you have a future full of j@ck@$$es like bilawal, sharif sons and little diesel'ets running around like frenzied bacteria, contaminating Pakistan's intellectual pool.
In 222 million population, we have enough graduates and specialists to build this spaceport. We just need a good advanced studies institution to do this job.
 
The education system is broken, with capitalist, money hungry schools make it impossible for a majority of the population to receive a respectable standard of education. Building a space port, sure go ahead. But doesn't solve the endemic problem of pathetic standard of education, which isn't standardized, where majority of the children have zero access to climb the intellectual ladder due to lack of money. And even when you have money, the standard of education is hopelessly bouncing off one wall to another. It's what happens when Pakistan has been ruled by a bunch of Jahils, in turn churning out further Jahil mentality into the population.

Go ahead with your glorified space port, brushing the reality under the carpet. It's vain, without mass segment of Pakistani youngsters expected to somehow fly up to the requirements in order to be hired for jobs at your sparkling little space port.

Without a solid foundation in education, you have a future full of j@ck@$$es like bilawal, sharif sons and little diesel'ets running around like frenzied bacteria, contaminating Pakistan's intellectual pool.
While I understand and agree with your frustration over our education systems, I disagree that we should not pursue high-tech endeavors. I have raised several practical reservations about the idea of this spaceport and how it will be managed but this post is about the general principle of spending money on space when you have hunger in the nation. I will try to reason my point coherently.

1. Space can and should be viewed like any other industry on some level. You can invest money into it, which will create jobs and bring profit. Some countries produce cars, some countries produce TVs, some countries produce satellites. We can view a space industry in the same vein. Few people argue against investment in steel or oil or automotive until we've finished corruption and hunger. On the contrary, investment in industry is a way to create economic progress and fight hunger.
2. We actually have more specialist human resource in space (and its allied tech) than we can efficiently employ. I personally know way too many under-employed or unemployed engineers in these fields. Now you can blame our bad higher-education planning for this but at this point this is just a fact we must deal with. For a long time the government has tried to remedy this situation by hiring like crazy in places like SUPARCO, whose 80% workforce sits on their butts or is kept busy with pointless tasks. However, even that option is now running out as there's only so many sarkari naukris the government can hand out. The point is that we have no shortage of good engineers. And we will actually help the cause of under- and unemployment by investing in the space industry.
3. There are a some Indian things that I wish Pakistanis could replicate. One of these is ISRO. It makes money for the Indian government while providing jobs to thousands of engineers. Yes it's a profitable enterprise now. Why shouldn't we have a thing (space program in this case) that creates jobs and brings in profit?
4. One might argue that the return on investment can be higher by investing in other industries like perhaps agriculture. But to this I say that space industry actually brings you benefits that do not show up on a balance sheet. To bring in ISRO's example once again, the satellites launched by ISRO helped augment India's agriculture industry among other things. I am sure the technologies developed at ISRO feed into the India's military industrial complex (albeit indirectly), which is yet another reason to invest in these things.


With all that being said, I have seen how we invest into these endevaours, and we are interested more in "feeta kaatna" and sarkari prado main ghoomna, so I don't have optimistic views about what this current investment can achieve. But a course correction is needed, not a course termination.

Course correction will have to be in the shape of a high-tech industry and military industry policy developed through consensus between SPD, civillian government, business people.
 
In 222 million population, we have enough graduates and specialists to build this spaceport. We just need a good advanced studies institution to do this job.

Sure my friend, keep telling yourself that. I was born here and have been to schools, colleges and universities in Karachi, Islamabad and Peshawar, one thing I can tell with utter certainty, the standard of education is hopelessly sub-standard. The elitist culture which is peddled by those pathetic buffoons of the elite class, is make money on the back of the future of our children. The system is broken and needs to be fixed.
 
Sure my friend, keep telling yourself that. I was born here and have been to schools, colleges and universities in Karachi, Islamabad and Peshawar, one thing I can tell with utter certainty, the standard of education is hopelessly sub-standard. The elitist culture which is peddled by those pathetic buffoons of the elite class, is make money on the back of the future of our children. The system is broken and needs to be fixed.
Agreed with everything. My point is that DESPITE all of that, there are Pakistanis that have taught themselves the right skills. We shouldn't let these people down.
 
While I understand and agree with your frustration over our education systems, I disagree that we should not pursue high-tech endeavors. I have raised several practical reservations about the idea of this spaceport and how it will be managed but this post is about the general principle of spending money on space when you have hunger in the nation. I will try to reason my point coherently.

1. Space can and should be viewed like any other industry on some level. You can invest money into it, which will create jobs and bring profit. Some countries produce cars, some countries produce TVs, some countries produce satellites. We can view a space industry in the same vein. Few people argue against investment in steel or oil or automotive until we've finished corruption and hunger. On the contrary, investment in industry is a way to create economic progress and fight hunger.
2. We actually have more specialist human resource in space (and its allied tech) than we can efficiently employ. I personally know way too many under-employed or unemployed engineers in these fields. Now you can blame our bad higher-education planning for this but at this point this is just a fact we must deal with. For a long time the government has tried to remedy this situation by hiring like crazy in places like SUPARCO, whose 80% workforce sits on their butts or is kept busy with pointless tasks. However, even that option is now running out as there's only so many sarkari naukris the government can hand out. The point is that we have no shortage of good engineers. And we will actually help the cause of under- and unemployment by investing in the space industry.
3. There are a some Indian things that I wish Pakistanis could replicate. One of these is ISRO. It makes money for the Indian government while providing jobs to thousands of engineers. Yes it's a profitable enterprise now. Why shouldn't we have a thing (space program in this case) that creates jobs and brings in profit?
4. One might argue that the return on investment can be higher by investing in other industries like perhaps agriculture. But to this I say that space industry actually brings you benefits that do not show up on a balance sheet. To bring in ISRO's example once again, the satellites launched by ISRO helped augment India's agriculture industry among other things. I am sure the technologies developed at ISRO feed into the India's military industrial complex (albeit indirectly), which is yet another reason to invest in these things.


With all that being said, I have seen how we invest into these endevaours, and we are interested more in "feeta kaatna" and sarkari prado main ghoomna, so I don't have optimistic views about what this current investment can achieve. But a course correction is needed, not a course termination.

Course correction will have to be in the shape of a high-tech industry and military industry policy developed through consensus between SPD, civillian government, business people.

I have no problems with pursuing a space port. But I am a realist who makes sure my feet are firmly planted to the ground reality. Go for your space port, but don't forget that you have HUGE problem with the pathetic state of our education system. Without focusing on this, you're just brushing the problem under the carpet. Then my friend, there ain't much difference between those pathetic fantasia indians and us.

Pakistan Air Force recognized this problem and is pursuing an Aviation City with the tools, research facilities and intellectual pool to enhance the growth of our young, if we are to succeed in the world.

We MUST fix our education system .... Even the Prime Minister of Pakistan, Imran Khan recognizes this and is making a concerted effort to tackle and resolve this endemic with our education system. More and more Pakistanis MUST focus our time and energy in revamping and standardizing education.
 
I have no problems with pursuing a space port. But I am a realist who makes sure my feet are firmly planted to the ground reality. Go for your space port, but don't forget that you have HUGE problem with the pathetic state of our education system. Without focusing on this, you're just brushing the problem under the carpet. Then my friend, there ain't much difference between those pathetic fantasia indians and us.

Pakistan Air Force recognized this problem and is pursuing an Aviation City with the tools, research facilities and intellectual pool to enhance the growth of our young, if we are to succeed in the world.

We MUST fix our education system .... Even the Prime Minister of Pakistan, Imran Khan recognizes this and is making a concerted effort to tackle and resolve this endemic with our education system. More and more Pakistanis MUST focus our time and energy in revamping and standardizing education.
I would argue that what the PAF is attempting to do is what SUPARCO is trying to replicate with this (space plan with center at Chakri), but that can be argued against since so little is known publicly. However, I will still want to see this place built to its ideal goals. Of course all your points about education still stand and I see no reason why both goals cannot be pursued simultaneousl.
 

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