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Pakistan Shaheen 3 Can Hit Deep Inside India and Israel

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One is the largest military power that if it wishes can literally lay waste to every inch of Pakistan three times over and has the diplomatic clout to isolate Pakistan to the extent that we will starve to death..
It is thinking like this that has creeped into a lot of Pakistanis' mind unfortunately. I am not a unreasonably and unrealisticly enthusiastic guy, you can read my past posts to judge that. First I would like to say I don't think Pakistan is working on an ICBM. Neither we have need for one. I would just like to comment on your statement which is based on common misconception coming from a guy with otherwise sensible posts.

Yes USA has a lot of nuclear weapons, more than enough for Pakistan. But USA cannot use nuclear weapons against another nuclear state, however certain they can be of complete destruction of Pakistani assets. The thinking that goes into decisions like this in USA is different from other states. They won't think in terms of our losses and their losses. They think in terms of strategic advantage.
Even a single nuclear explosion against any of their cities is simply unacceptable. They don't want to win a war, they want to stay at the top of the world order. Any such catastrophe will result in such huge financial losses that their economy will lose its footing. USA will lose it's position as a economic leader, and eventually its military position. They will never be able to catch up with other global players.

Secondly, I want to talk about their diplomatic influence. That too is a misconception. Firstly, Pakistan is not an isolated nation like North Korea or Iran. We do have our allies and benefactors. We did suffer sanctions 1988 onwards, made much worse in 1998, on the same level as Iran, made worse YET AGAIN after Musharaf came to power as he was a dictator and that automatically resulted in more sanctions as that was the stated US policy. So that's 13 years of sanctions. It seems we did fine.

In addition, Iran has been under sanctions since 1979, what difference has it made to them? Only if you are under tyrannical governments like N.Korea do your people suffer and "starve" as you mentioned. I think N.Koreans would starve even if the sanctions were removed, they just have a terrible government. As long as a government isn't extremely corrupt.

Also, Iran's situation became much worse after their sanctions were passed in UNO. It will be impossible for any nation to pass any sanctions against Pakistan in UNO in today's world. The most they can do is pass their own sanctions in congress.

I do not think of Pakistan as some super power that can do whatever it wants like a lot of members on PDF, but I understand the geopolitical situation enough that USA can't harm us any more than we ourselves can let them. And when people do ridiculous fear mongering, I find it annoying.
The idea that somehow we are comparable to them or can exert pressures via similar fronts is ridiculous. It is the reason that after Salala there wasnt any counter raid against the US nor were they fired upon even though they continued technical violations on and off..
How do you think the Seal helicopter was shot down by Taliban soon after the raid? That execution was pre-planned and a set up by Afghan Taliban. They knew the helicopter's exact route. Navy SEALs Killed: Helicopter Crash Was Taliban Trap, Afghan Official Says
Did a New Taliban Weapon Kill a Chopper Full of Navy SEALs? | WIRED

Still that's just an assumption. What about their Joint Chief crying before senate about Haqqanis being an arm of the ISI? Do you still think Pakistan does not exert it's pressure? What have they been able to do about the ISI? Aren't they accusing ISI of directly being involved in killing US soldiers? What about Osama bin Laden hiding in Abbotabad? Why did they not do anything against people who sheltered someone who murdered 3000 of their people? Just two or three days ago they declassified documents they took from OBL's house that show ISI was in contact with him. Why don't they take action against us now? Insted we are getting $800m aid annually.
Truth is, Pakistan has done everything possible to antagonize USA. Yet we are doing fine. Because you just don't wake up one day and decide you are going to war with Pakistan. We are not some isolated toothless kid you randomly decide to beat around.
 
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We had India covered long ago. Besides, some people still missing the point here, the test was not as much about range, the other big changes on A-series upgrades and this are different.

Israel is not our problem.

Because that's where all the Jews live.

Oy vey! :D
 
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Sure, go ahead and break your keyboard while you are at it. Your paranoia is your own undoing. What have you really accomplished other than paranoia? They can screw your posts because you allow their soldiers to be blown up on a daily basis by your own snakes. Now that you finally realized that those snakes have also been crawling up your behind.. and when they took kids and shot them at point blank range.. repeatedly.. poked them to make blood bleed out of them.. when your battle hardened commandos could not take that and broke down like little girls bawling away at the inhumanity those snakes displayed.. did you realize what a complete screwup you are.

I do have a problem with Pakistanis, you are apathetic to your own existence. You cannot think beyond the pinhole of your brainwashed minds to see how utter failures you all are sitting in that country. You want to talk about self defence kid, your self defence is based on corrupt Military officers sitting there signing files that dont move day in day out. In your delusion of grandeur you tried coming up with a Jet fighter whose interface doesn't work with its weapons and its screens shut off in the middle of the flight. All the while even in this critical juncture your air force throws out kickbacks.

And you expect to fight against India and hold more stupid ambitions against the USA? They slaughtered those troops because you let them.. your neighbours and your beloved Pakhtoon brothers the Afghans screwed you over and entrenched it to the Americans that you have been fighting a double war.. they wanted your blood and all you could do was watch. They came in, they TOOK a man from RIGHT next to where your shiny officers come out of and all you could do was WATCH.. after which all you can do is rant as you are now.

As for me, Ive done enough for you Pakistanis.. because of ME.. that's right.. ME.. is why your troops can talk when they have little bandwidth left in a tough environment. You know how many troops? Lets see.. at least all your pretty Al-Khalids, Al Zarrars.. and whole battalion worths.. Did you know I was CALLED back to help because no one else could do what I did. That's right.. your precious heroes called me back after I left to help them.

So now you tell me.. why the hell should I care when every other person without an IOTA of understanding of defence matters, military hardware and even basic geopolitics and diplomacy thinks of being an IDIOT and wants to get an ICBM just to invite sanctions on an already critical country.. a country that is cornered for being an epicentre of terrorism, a country whose economy is on a knife's edge and governance exists in mere writing.. and a population whose mind seems to be in their bums because it seems to lose blood flow when they sit down to write on the computer.
Post of the year.
 
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Post of the year.
I thought he has changed the words Indians with Pakistanis, A lot of what he wrote can be attributed to Indians. He might just had been confused on that particular day...
 
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Yes USA has a lot of nuclear weapons, more than enough for Pakistan. But USA cannot use nuclear weapons against another nuclear state, however certain they can be of complete destruction of Pakistani assets. The thinking that goes into decisions like this in USA is different from other states. They won't think in terms of our losses and their losses. They think in terms of strategic advantage.
USA cannot use its WMDs against another nuclear state? Based on what?

USA is the most unpredictable nation in existence. Also this: U.S. Keeps First-Strike Nuclear Strategy - WSJ

In short, US does not have second strike policy. Surprised?

Even a single nuclear explosion against any of their cities is simply unacceptable. They don't want to win a war, they want to stay at the top of the world order. Any such catastrophe will result in such huge financial losses that their economy will lose its footing. USA will lose it's position as a economic leader, and eventually its military position. They will never be able to catch up with other global players.
And Pakistan is in the position to make this possible?

Shortest answer: NO.

USA will not go down by loosing a city or two. Contrary to the popular belief, USA is far more resilient then it is often given credit for. The latest economic crises (second only to the great depression) did not dampen US resolve for its global ambitions and the country is now on the path towards economic recovery: Why the US will power the world economy in 2015

Here is a reminder of what US does, when its mainland is targeted:-

1. Pearl Harbor

US joined WW-II, siding with the allied forces against AXIS alliance. The entire nation was mobilized for the war effort that ended with the defeat of all AXIS powers and use of 2 nuclear weapons. Millions dead on enemy front as well.

2. WTC (9/11 event)

US commenced WOT, and destroyed several nations in retaliation (i.e. Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya), and significantly damaged militant groups such as Al-Qaeda and Taliban. On the sidelines, US facilitated regime-change in Somalia via an African ally and motivated Israel to weaken powerful militant groups such as Hezbollah and Hamas. US is now back in force to tackle another powerful militant group ISIS. Unfortunately, many Muslims have perished in this bloody war so far and many continue to suffer from its consequences.

And guess what? Iran is siding with US in its move against ISIS. Kinda ironic, right?

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Explode a nuke in a US city, and half of the world is guaranteed to be laid waste in retaliation afterwards. By the way, US homeland security is significantly beefed-up since the 9/11 event. So good luck in this attempt.

Secondly, I want to talk about their diplomatic influence. That too is a misconception. Firstly, Pakistan is not an isolated nation like North Korea or Iran. We do have our allies and benefactors. We did suffer sanctions 1988 onwards, made much worse in 1998, on the same level as Iran, made worse YET AGAIN after Musharaf came to power as he was a dictator and that automatically resulted in more sanctions as that was the stated US policy. So that's 13 years of sanctions. It seems we did fine.
Yes, but these allies have limits too (including China).

The greatest misconception is that Pakistan somehow evaded the negative effects of sanctions imposed on it by USA, it did not. Economy was in ruins and military capability had significantly declined.

So how did the situation change? 9/11 occurred and Musharraf sided with USA, a strategic shift that brought relief and prosperity with it and Pakistan made a recovery on all fronts.

Also, US did not sanctioned Pakistan on sheer war-footing, US continued to provide Pakistan some breathing space by providing the latter nation some aid for the necessities. In short, US did not utterly choke Pakistan. Here: Sixty years of US aid to Pakistan: Get the data | Global development | The Guardian

In addition, Iran has been under sanctions since 1979, what difference has it made to them? Only if you are under tyrannical governments like N.Korea do your people suffer and "starve" as you mentioned. I think N.Koreans would starve even if the sanctions were removed, they just have a terrible government. As long as a government isn't extremely corrupt.
What difference have it made? Iranian economy have suffered, modernization efforts (on all fronts) significantly hampered, and the country have become a paper-tiger in the context of its military might. Iranian nuclear program have also suffered setbacks as a consequence.

However, Iran can afford to ward-off some effects of US sanctions because it is one of the largest OIL producing countries of the world. A country without the luxury of massive OIL production, is likely to end-up like N. Korea or worse. Heck, China is managing N. Korea.

Iran have so much potential, it can become one of the greatest powers of the world under ideal conditions. Unfortunately, sanctions dampened its progress.

Also, Iran's situation became much worse after their sanctions were passed in UNO. It will be impossible for any nation to pass any sanctions against Pakistan in UNO in today's world. The most they can do is pass their own sanctions in congress.
You underestimate the magnitude of influence that US holds over UNO. No country have been able to stop US from imposing sanctions on a country with or without UNO.

In-fact, US have imposed sanctions on even the mighty Russia in current times to dampen its recent military adventures and economic prosperity. Here: BBC News - Ukraine crisis: Russia and sanctions

End result: Russian economy have suffered a setback and Ukraine related campaign have lost gas.

I do not think of Pakistan as some super power that can do whatever it wants like a lot of members on PDF, but I understand the geopolitical situation enough that USA can't harm us any more than we ourselves can let them. And when people do ridiculous fear mongering, I find it annoying.
This is your fantasy. Keep on dreaming.

How do you think the Seal helicopter was shot down by Taliban soon after the raid? That execution was pre-planned and a set up by Afghan Taliban. They knew the helicopter's exact route. Navy SEALs Killed: Helicopter Crash Was Taliban Trap, Afghan Official Says
Did a New Taliban Weapon Kill a Chopper Full of Navy SEALs? | WIRED

Still that's just an assumption. What about their Joint Chief crying before senate about Haqqanis being an arm of the ISI? Do you still think Pakistan does not exert it's pressure? What have they been able to do about the ISI? Aren't they accusing ISI of directly being involved in killing US soldiers? What about Osama bin Laden hiding in Abbotabad? Why did they not do anything against people who sheltered someone who murdered 3000 of their people? Just two or three days ago they declassified documents they took from OBL's house that show ISI was in contact with him. Why don't they take action against us now? Insted we are getting $800m aid annually.
Truth is, Pakistan has done everything possible to antagonize USA. Yet we are doing fine. Because you just don't wake up one day and decide you are going to war with Pakistan. We are not some isolated toothless kid you randomly decide to beat around.
And your point is?

Pakistan have cooperated with US on many fronts as well during WOT. Only Kayani took a backseat in this matter due to multiple reasons, but current COAS is taking all the steps that Kayani didn't in the matters of targeting militant activities within Pakistani soil much like Musharraf.

Also, US have taken numerous actions against Pakistan, when it felt necessary to do so. However, some Pakistani have not learned anything from Salala and Operation Neptune Spear based events, it seems. Instead, myths have been concocted that soldiers were sleeping during the Salala incident and Pakistani top-brass cooperated with the US to stage a false-flag operation that is Operation Neptune Spear. God help this gullible nation.

If US wanted to, it could significantly exploit and blackmail Pakistan on the matter of OBL; it still can. So let us not assume that US is lacking spine to challenge "a not so isolated toothless kid." It have challenged bigger powers before and defeated them.

Get your facts straight, people.
 
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USA cannot use its WMDs against another nuclear state? Based on what?

USA is the most unpredictable nation in existence. Also this: U.S. Keeps First-Strike Nuclear Strategy - WSJ

In short, US does not have second strike policy. Surprised?
Yes, they don't have second strike policy, how did you conclude from that they will be crazy enough to use nukes against another nuclear state? And let me make one thing clear, these no-first use policies mean nothing. Will a nuked nation go to them later with a piece of paper saying, "Hey you promised no first strike?"
And Pakistan is in the position to make this possible?

Shortest answer: NO.

USA will not go down by loosing a city or two. Contrary to the popular belief, USA is far more resilient then it is often given credit for. The latest economic crises (second only to the great depression) did not dampen US resolve for its global ambitions and the country is now on the path towards economic recovery: Why the US will power the world economy in 2015
I already mentioned in my statement they will not do it "however certain they are of destroying pakistani assets". Is Pakistan capable of this? Shortest answer: Irrelevant.

Your article was completely irrelevant on how USA will be able to recover from losing a major city to nuclear strikes.
1. Pearl Harbor

US joined WW-II, siding with the allied forces against AXIS alliance. The entire nation was mobilized for the war effort that ended with the defeat of all AXIS powers and use of 2 nuclear weapons. Millions dead on enemy front as well.
Germany had already lost when it decided to attack Russians. US was already providing military aid to all allied nations to the maximum. These nations included Russia, China, UK. A little more of history books and a little less of Spielberg.
2. WTC (9/11 event)

US commenced WOT, and destroyed several nations in retaliation (i.e. Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya), and significantly damaged militant groups such as Al-Qaeda and Taliban. On the sidelines, US facilitated regime-change in Somalia via an African ally and motivated Israel to weaken powerful militant groups such as Hezbollah and Hamas. US is now back in force to tackle another powerful militant group ISIS. Unfortunately, many Muslims have perished in this bloody war so far and many continue to suffer from its consequences.
Afghanistan was already destroyed. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, still right now is under Iran's thumb. A total strategic defeat for USA. Weakened Taliban? They are negotiating with the Taliban. In fact they are accepting almost the same terms they were offered soon after 9/11, the only difference is the 3000 dead Americans.
Truth is two field armies were defeated. USA has zero influence in Iraq right now, and Taliban are poised to be back in control of Afghanistan, with USA as their unwilling partners.
I still don't get what all of that has to do with Pakistan.

Explode a nuke in a US city, and half of the world is guaranteed to be laid waste in retaliation afterwards. By the way, US homeland security is significantly beefed-up since the 9/11 event. So good luck in this attempt.
Again you missed the context. I started my statement by saying USA has more than enough nukes for Pakistan. And my statement wasn't regarding the logistics or how to plan it. What I said was USA will never risk such a situation. Ever.
What difference have it made? Iranian economy have suffered, modernization efforts (on all fronts) significantly hampered, and the country have become a paper-tiger in the context of its military might. Iranian nuclear program have also suffered setbacks as a consequence.
Paper tiger? They have taken over Iraq, Syria, Lebanon and can now add Yemen as the latest addition. The only real pain came after UNO sanctions, even that hasn't slowed Iran much.
You underestimate the magnitude of influence that US holds over UNO. No country have been able to stop US from imposing sanctions on a country with or without UNO.

In-fact, US have imposed sanctions on even the mighty Russia in current times to dampen its recent military adventures and economic prosperity. Here: BBC News - Ukraine crisis: Russia and sanctions
Read what I said. They can sanction you in their own congress. The Russian sanctions took a very long time, and they still haven't been able to rally the Europeans. If anything, the Ukraine crisis has exposed serious cracks in the Alliance.
This is your fantasy. Keep on dreaming.
You are the one on the "AMERICA!" high horse.
Also, US did not sanctioned Pakistan on sheer war-footing, US continued to provide Pakistan some breathing space by providing the latter nation some aid for the necessities. In short, US did not utterly choke Pakistan. Here: Sixty years of US aid to Pakistan: Get the data | Global development | The Guardian
Read your own link. I am sure the 10m in the ten years was what kept us from chewing our own shoes.
Pakistan have cooperated with US on many fronts as well during WOT. Only Kayani took a backseat in this matter due to multiple reasons, but current COAS is taking all the steps that Kayani didn't in the matters of targeting militant activities within Pakistani soil much like Musharraf.
Even Bush says Musharaf was playing a double game. Read it in his book. So no it was not just Kiyani.

Also, US have taken numerous actions against Pakistan, when it felt necessary to do so. However, some Pakistani have not learned anything from Salala and Operation Neptune Spear based events, it seems. Instead, myths have been concocted that soldiers were sleeping during the Salala incident and Pakistani top-brass cooperated with the US to stage a false-flag operation that is Operation Neptune Spear. God help this gullible nation.
And Pakistan has taken actions against them as well. Even their generals say so. But i guess you know the real deal, right?
Who said soldiers were sleeping? They couldn't have done anything even if they were awake. Look what became of USA afterwards. The new supply routes cost them billions and billions. Their military economy is in such bad shape they don't know whether or not to keep the A-10's active or to scrap them for F-35s, this is just one of many examples i can give you. I am sure they regret their actions.
If US wanted to, it could significantly exploit and blackmail Pakistan on the matter of OBL; it still can. So let us not assume that US is lacking spine to challenge "a not so isolated toothless kid." It have challenged bigger powers before and defeated them.
Sure. But they don't do it out of the goodness of their heart right? Please take your jingoism some place with fewer sane people.
 
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USA cannot use its WMDs against another nuclear state? Based on what?

:raise:

The fact that Armageddon, rejoicing all together in Allah/ShiVishnu/Yahve/God forever will
immediately ensue?

Whadda I win?

Quirky but true, Tay.
 
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