Pakistan rules out Indian role in Afghan endgame

[Indus Pakistan]

India, a nation for entirety of it's existence has also relied on external powers. Upto 1990 it was Soviet Union and since then it's been a balancing act with one leg there and the other there.

and to de-tox you from any delusion you might have prior to August 1947 it was the British Raj which stretched from Myanmar to Pakistan.

 

[MilSpec]

India, a nation for entirety of it's existence has also relied on external powers. Upto 1990 it was Soviet Union and since then it's been a balancing act with one leg there and the other there.

Really, please explain how were we reliant on USSR?

 

[Dark-Destroyer]

Nice.

Pakistan ruled India out of Afghan talks

Pak going to teach India how to treat minorities

Next up, Kamran Akmal will teach Virat Kohli how to bat and then Pak space agency will tutor ISRO on satellite launches.

why didnt you use fast bowlers as an example?

Unfortunately for you, WE CAN. india is more than 7x bigger than Pakistan; has access to the world's most advanced weapons systems whilst we are denied this privilige; has the backing if the West and Russia yet despite these impossible odds, india still REMAINS FAR TOO weak, powerless and incapable of messing with Pakistan or fighting the Pakistan military. america is superpower; spent 100s of billions of dollars in fighting the Taliban for over 17 years yet has still not managed to destroy the Taliban or control the whole of afghanistan. Due to these realities, it is VERY easy for Pakistan to control and be the biggest power broker in afghanistan. Even the americans realize this which is why they sending half their troops back in the coming months. There is nothing anyone can do about this. The Taliban are coming back and the americans are preparing for this reaity no matter what indiankind says or thinks. All the americans want is that their interests are not fully scuppered in afghanistan. Nothing more........

but india is suppaaa powaaa they will defeat everyone with modi gass

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Really, please explain how were we reliant on USSR?

Well, you used broad strokes with referance to Pakistan being 'reliant'. Care to explain? And do note entirety of Western Europe, Japan, South Korea, Israel have been under shield provided by USA far, far more then Pakistan.

With regards to Pakistan it is clear that we are seeing seismic change in US policy. It all began with US request for Pakistan to play a role in talking with Taliban and decision to negotiate with what were called 'terrorists. It was clear India was not taken in the loop. In discussions that have taken place Pakistan, China, Russia, US and Taliban have been involved. Even the Kabul was kept out. What does this tell you?

This is the begining of US pull out. It might take 5 years but you can date stamp this month as the begining of the end of US involvement in Afghanistan. India does not have a border even with Afgh. The future landscape will be decided by Pakistan, China, Iran, Russia. All Afghanistan's neighbours [Russia through Central Asia] and all will work together as they are on the same page now.

 

[MilSpec]

Well, you used broad strokes with referance to Pakistan being 'reliant'. Care to explain? And do note entirety of Western Europe, Japan, South Korea, Israel have been under shield provided by USA far, far more then Pakistan.

Sure:
Western Europe, Japan SK and Israel, has exacted support from US for it's own security interests, exactly opposite to that of Pakistan where US has exacted support from Pakistan for it's own security interests, whether it was against the USSR in the late 80's or against Pakistan's own ally - Taliban in the 2000's; leveraging Pakistani lives in the process. While aiding Pakistan in it's security goals; both US and china have abandoned Pakistan from time to time.

Pakistan's foreign policy whether to be dependent on US for the first 4 decades and now again reliant on China, is nothing but the repeat of same history; Pakistan in the coldwar housed U2's for reconnaissance missions on USSR, in the past decade housed US predator drone to do something unpalatable for this forum,and going forward will provide berthing rights to china in the new port, different tree same wood type situation. You have received highest military Aid after Israel from Pakistan, and I am sure as soon as the word aid came into the picture, the rabid team here is waiting to paste the link of India getting highest civilian aid, forgetting that India right upto the 90's was an economic time bomb waiting to implode. Even from Russia India did not receive military aid, we paid for everything from our t72 tanks to SU7's when we were the most vulnerable.

In contrast; India has always known no one will save India, and our interests are our own, we fight for our interests when needed, we are not guns for hire, we don't do blood money business, we don't house station chiefs here, and neither do we give combat base rights to anyone whether it's USSR or USA, irrespective of aid offer by them, and we did all this while being a much poorer nation than Pakistan which had all the making of successful powerhouse of an Asian block with it's low population density, well planed infrastructure and opportunity to form a completely new system of governance, today is teetering on all fronts, whether that is economy, inflation, education, development, etc. Not that India is doing much better on these fronts on the international standards, but fact remain despite hardships we did not sell out our foreign policy, you did and that remains the difference.

 

[New World]

Pakistan is nobody to decide that. Nobody outside Pakistan gives any real value to it's decisions or stance whether on Kashmir or Afghanistan

I think President Trump would disagree with you.. He send letter to Prime Minister to initiate talk with Taliban to end 17 year long war.

and as for record in recent Talks dialogue parties were
in Abu Dhabi = Taliban. US. UAE. KSA and Pakistan.
in Qatar = Taliban, USA and Pakistan.
in Islamabad = Taliban, USA, Afghan govt, China and Pakistan.
in China = Taliban, China, Iran, Afghan govt. and Pakistan.

and for upcoming dialogue in Jiddah, dialogue parties are Taliban, USA, KSA, UAE, Afghan govt. and Pakistan.

 

[MilSpec]

With regards to Pakistan it is clear that we are seeing seismic change in US policy. It all began with US request for Pakistan to play a role in talking with Taliban and decision to negotiate with what were called 'terrorists. It was clear India was not taken in the loop. In discussions that have taken place Pakistan, China, Russia, US and Taliban have been involved. Even the Kabul was kept out. What does this tell you?

This is the begining of US pull out. It might take 5 years but you can date stamp this month as the begining of the end of US involvement in Afghanistan. India does not have a border even with Afgh. The future landscape will be decided by Pakistan, China, Iran, Russia. All Afghanistan's neighbours [Russia through Central Asia] and all will work together as they are on the same page now.

how does it make any difference to India, our stated goals are to aid in development of war torn Afganistan, we want to build hospitals, schools, educational facilities and infrastructure development in Afghanistan. That is our stated objective.
Given Pakistan last time around aided the Taliban lay siege to kabul and ushered in a era of darkness in the 21st century upon the afghans with thier taliban allies, that you pride in being no longer being refereed to a s terrorists, what exactly is Pakistan offering this time around, diet taliban?

Nice.

Pakistan ruled India out of Afghan talks

Pak going to teach India how to treat minorities

Next up, Kamran Akmal will teach Virat Kohli how to bat and then Pak space agency will tutor ISRO on satellite launches.

 

[Crixus]

Don't be so harsh in showing the mirror , I never saw more clear comparison of the last 70 years of south asia .......

Sure:
Western Europe, Japan SK and Israel, has exacted support from US for it's own security interests, exactly opposite to that of Pakistan where US has exacted support from Pakistan for it's own security interests, whether it was against the USSR in the late 80's or against Pakistan's own ally - Taliban in the 2000's; leveraging Pakistani lives in the process. While aiding Pakistan in it's security goals; both US and china have abandoned Pakistan from time to time.

Pakistan's foreign policy whether to be dependent on US for the first 4 decades and now again reliant on China, is nothing but the repeat of same history; Pakistan in the coldwar housed U2's for reconnaissance missions on USSR, in the past decade housed US predator drone to do something unpalatable for this forum,and going forward will provide berthing rights to china in the new port, different tree same wood type situation. You have received highest military Aid after Israel from Pakistan, and I am sure as soon as the word aid came into the picture, the rabid team here is waiting to paste the link of India getting highest civilian aid, forgetting that India right upto the 90's was an economic time bomb waiting to implode. Even from Russia India did not receive military aid, we paid for everything from our t72 tanks to SU7's when we were the most vulnerable.

In contrast; India has always known no one will save India, and our interests are our own, we fight for our interests when needed, we are not guns for hire, we don't do blood money business, we don't house station chiefs here, and neither do we give combat base rights to anyone whether it's USSR or USA, irrespective of aid offer by them, and we did all this while being a much poorer nation than Pakistan which had all the making of successful powerhouse of an Asian block with it's low population density, well planed infrastructure and opportunity to form a completely new system of governance, today is teetering on all fronts, whether that is economy, inflation, education, development, etc. Not that India is doing much better on these fronts on the international standards, but fact remain despite hardships we did not sell out our foreign policy, you did and that remains the difference.

 

[Awan68]

Pakistan is nobody to decide that. Nobody outside Pakistan gives any real value to it's decisions or stance whether on Kashmir or Afghanistan.
Pakistanis can deny this all they want but it is the cold hard truth.

India has positioned itself in Afghanistan so well and brilliantly that the main pointmen of the both peace process' in Afghanistan are coming running to India to please Modi & Doval:
On 6th Jan 2019, pro India Zalmay Khalilzad (US special envoy for Afghanistan and main US pointman for Afghan peace process) is visiting India for three days to meet Doval & Modi.

On 21st December Zamir Kabulov (Russian special envoy for Afghanistan and pointman of Moscow peace process) visited India to take India's advice.

Similarly the EU led Belgium conference on Afghanistan also invited India as a main participant.

So now India has successfully made itself permanent stakeholder in Afghanistan something which was unthinkable just 19 years back .

What shitty planet do u buggers live on?

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Sure:
Western Europe, Japan SK and Israel, has exacted support from US for it's own security interests, exactly opposite to that of Pakistan where US has exacted support from Pakistan for it's own security interests, whether it was against the USSR in the late 80's or against Pakistan's own ally - Taliban in the 2000's; leveraging Pakistani lives in the process. While aiding Pakistan in it's security goals; both US and china have abandoned Pakistan from time to time.

Pakistan's foreign policy whether to be dependent on US for the first 4 decades and now again reliant on China, is nothing but the repeat of same history; Pakistan in the coldwar housed U2's for reconnaissance missions on USSR, in the past decade housed US predator drone to do something unpalatable for this forum,and going forward will provide berthing rights to china in the new port, different tree same wood type situation. You have received highest military Aid after Israel from Pakistan, and I am sure as soon as the word aid came into the picture, the rabid team here is waiting to paste the link of India getting highest civilian aid, forgetting that India right upto the 90's was an economic time bomb waiting to implode. Even from Russia India did not receive military aid, we paid for everything from our t72 tanks to SU7's when we were the most vulnerable.

In contrast; India has always known no one will save India, and our interests are our own, we fight for our interests when needed, we are not guns for hire, we don't do blood money business, we don't house station chiefs here, and neither do we give combat base rights to anyone whether it's USSR or USA, irrespective of aid offer by them, and we did all this while being a much poorer nation than Pakistan which had all the making of successful powerhouse of an Asian block with it's low population density, well planed infrastructure and opportunity to form a completely new system of governance, today is teetering on all fronts, whether that is economy, inflation, education, development, etc. Not that India is doing much better on these fronts on the international standards, but fact remain despite hardships we did not sell out our foreign policy, you did and that remains the difference.

And those who are members of the race and nation that call for the death and destruction of the Pakistani race and nation wouldn't say anything else.........

Our foreign policy is actually doing really well.........after all, Pakistan is the ONLY nation in the entire history of mankind who has managed to take on and subdue a FOREIGN enemy that is more than 7× bigger than us for over 71 years.....

IF Pakistan's foreign policy was controlled by the americans than the Taliban would have been wiped out in 2001. Yet in 2018 they they are getting even stronger.....:

https://edition-m.cnn.com/2018/11/0...rol-intl/index.html?r=https://www.google.com/

 

[Arsalan 345]

Pakistan is nobody to decide that. Nobody outside Pakistan gives any real value to it's decisions or stance whether on Kashmir or Afghanistan.
Pakistanis can deny this all they want but it is the cold hard truth.

India has positioned itself in Afghanistan so well and brilliantly that the main pointmen of the both peace process' in Afghanistan are coming running to India to please Modi & Doval:
On 6th Jan 2019, pro India Zalmay Khalilzad (US special envoy for Afghanistan and main US pointman for Afghan peace process) is visiting India for three days to meet Doval & Modi.

On 21st December Zamir Kabulov (Russian special envoy for Afghanistan and pointman of Moscow peace process) visited India to take India's advice.

Similarly the EU led Belgium conference on Afghanistan also invited India as a main participant.

So now India has successfully made itself permanent stakeholder in Afghanistan something which was unthinkable just 19 years back .

it's over for india it's over.accept it.you are gone.india was not invited in UAE where senior taliban leaders were present.USA didn't ask for indian role in afghanistan.it's very hard time for india.i know india have presence in afghanistan but this presence is going to be minimum after complete withdrawal.afghanistan is key for pakistan and pakistan is now very close to achieve it's own objectives.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

India Faces a New Reality in Afghanistan
It’s past time for India to take stock of new realities in Afghanistan.






James Mattis finally submitted his resignation as U.S. Secretary of Defense last week as it had become untenable for him to continue to head the Pentagon due to differences with President Donald Trump on the withdrawal of American troops from Syria and Afghanistan, among other issues. These decisions have once again underscored Trump’s unmatched tendency to shock his own administration.

A significant withdrawal of American troops from Afghanistan may be imminent, reflecting the strategic incoherence of the Trump administration, which is earning notoriety for pursuing an isolationist and anti-interventionist foreign policy to appease its core political base. Moreover, Mattis was not in agreement with Trump’s callous treatment of America’s traditional allies and forsaking security commitments in volatile regions. There is no doubt that any major reduction in American military presence before a peace deal with the Taliban is concluded would be a terrible mistake as it is only likely to bring more fighting to war-torn Afghanistan. Any spike in internal instability in Afghanistan could also have larger geopolitical ramifications as it is likely to lead to increased competition among Pakistan, Russia, India and Iran for influence in Kabul.

The decision to withdraw precipitously from Afghanistan is likely to have far-reaching consequences for India – an increase in Taliban’s influence in Afghanistan could negatively impact the security situation in the restive Kashmir valley. With the Islamic State currently on the back foot, the Taliban may well emerge as the ideological inspiration of resurgent insurgency in Kashmir. There is additional concern regarding the security of India’s consulates in Afghanistan. Can India afford to remain aloof in this unfolding scenario?

Trump’s exit would be fully consistent with his campaign promises about ending costly troop deployments and wasteful wars abroad: The U.S. continues to spend around $45 billion each year in Afghanistan. After assuming the presidency, Trump’s basic instinct was to end the U.S. war in Afghanistan, but he was persuaded to maintain the U.S. military presence there. Mattis publicly defended the decision to keep forces in Afghanistan, asserting it was necessary to prevent “another 9/11” being hatched.

In order to force Pakistan to change its Afghan policy calculus, Trump has been publicly critical of Pakistan’s security establishment, making strong statements and tweeting against it for sheltering the Taliban. Announced in August 2017, the Trump administration’s Afghan strategy has relied upon a “fight to win” approach aimed at killing terrorists. This new American policy also accorded India a prominent place in Afghanistan: Trump wanted India to do more in assisting Afghanistan, a stand that New Delhi has been advocating. The Trump administration publicly acknowledged that the problem of terrorism in Afghanistan emanated from Pakistan and that Rawalpindi should demonstrate its commitment to eliminate terrorist sanctuaries in Pakistan. The United States also increased its air strikes to record levels, with the aim of pushing the Taliban to accept peace talks. But Trump’s impatience to leave Afghanistan has torn that approach to smithereens.

When Trump recently reached out to Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan, sending him a letter seeking cooperation in bringing the Taliban to the negotiating table, it underlined the painful truth for critics of America’s continued relationship with Pakistan. For all the tough talk from Trump, the U.S. is not in a position to antagonize Pakistan as Trump is determined to withdraw U.S. forces as early as possible even if that comes at the cost of a compromise with the Taliban. India has long relied on U.S. support for the Afghan government for maintaining security and stability. With America’s protective umbrella set to vanish sooner than later, India’s Afghan policy is going to face severe challenges.

India’s Afghanistan policy has two major objectives: first, to curtail Islamabad’s influence in Kabul and deny Pakistan’s state and non-state agents leverage to plot against Indian interests, and second, to gain access to vast energy markets in Central Asia. In order to achieve these objectives, India has been one of the staunchest supporters of a strong and “independent” government in Kabul since an Afghanistan that is indirectly controlled by Rawalpindi is detrimental to Indian strategic interests. New Delhi is working in close coordination with the government of Ashraf Ghani in almost all regional and international issues of concern. Echoing the Afghan stand, India has been opposed to any outside interference in talks with the Taliban, asserting that the peace process must be “Afghan-led, Afghan-owned and Afghan-controlled.” But geographical distance and absence of military footprint dictate that India cannot convincingly push for a complete exclusion of Pakistan from the Afghan peace process.

Despite being critical of Pakistan, Washington has realized that it is virtually impossible to turn the situation around without a significant military commitment in Afghanistan, which is not favoured by Trump. The Taliban today hold more territory than at any other time since their ouster in 2001. The Taliban have substantially weakened the writ of the Kabul regime, mounting successful terror attacks on both the security personnel and the civilians. Emboldened by Trump’s readiness to exit, the Taliban have not given any indication that they are ready to engage directly with the Afghan government and abide by the Afghan constitution.

Pakistan has been trying to take credit for bringing Taliban insurgents to the negotiating table and helping the U.S. exit Afghanistan “as friend of the region, not as a failure.” But being mindful of the host of problems that bedevil any attempt at negotiations with the Taliban, Trump had expressed skepticism about the U.S. Special Envoy Zalmay Khalilzad’s efforts: “I don’t know that they are going to be successful, probably they’re not. Who knows?” Trump’s skepticism may have eventually prompted him to plan for a drawdown of American troops from Afghanistan.

As recently-held talks in the UAE demonstrate, the Taliban are completely opposed to engaging with the Ghani government, which they treat as fundamentally illegitimate, and are trying to secure maximum concessions from Khalilzad without necessarily offering much in return. No progress seems to have been achieved regarding the U.S. proposal for a six-month cease-fire and an agreement to name Taliban representatives to the caretaker government as well as the Taliban’s demand to announce a roadmap for the withdrawal of foreign troops. Trump’s decision to withdraw almost half of all U.S. troops there will be viewed as a sign of American weakness by the Taliban, who might feel less incentivized to accept the cease-fire proposal.

In the 1990s, India’s Afghan policy was broadly aligned with that of Russia and Iran. In supporting the anti-Taliban “Northern Alliance,” the three countries closely coordinated their responses, which were strategically viable to counter the resurgence of Islamist radicalization. Following the 9/11 attacks, Russia and Iran, despite having their own differences with the United States, supported America’s war against the Taliban and the al-Qaeda. This had allowed India to avoid direct military involvement in the Afghan conflict. But 17 years since, the context has changed dramatically. Russia and Iran are no longer completely in sync with Indian interests. In fact, Russia’s decisive Pakistan-Afghanistan policy shift constitutes a critical challenge for India. China’s increasing economic and political involvement in Afghanistan has not been sufficient to motivate Beijing to put pressure on Pakistan to disengage its security establishment from its ties with various terrorist groups. In view of this, India is also being forced to reassess its policy choices.

Contrary to popular perception, New Delhi has always maintained discreet contacts with the Afghan Taliban. Recently, India sent two retired diplomats as observers at the Moscow round of peace talks, which triggered speculation that India was reversing its policy on Afghanistan. India argued that sending a “non-official” delegation to Moscow, in consultation with the Ghani government, could not be viewed as a shift in its Afghan policy. The Taliban panel at the talks was reported to have said that they would “not allow anyone to use the soil of Afghanistan against other countries,” including neighbors. This could be interpreted an attempt by the Taliban to dispel India’s misgivings.

Despite its extensive developmental role, India remains a peripheral player in Afghan political affairs. As Trump muddies the Afghan waters even further with his inchoate approach, New Delhi will find itself unable to influence the situation without incurring significant costs. India’s recent critical stance at the United Nations for its failure to sanction new Taliban leaders and their helpers in the neighborhood may be ethically appropriate, but seems out of sync with emerging ground realities in Afghanistan. There are already growing voices in India who are now asking the government to engage with the Taliban more substantively. It remains to be seen how New Delhi will respond to Trump’s latest policy shifts. What is clear is that India does not have the luxury of sitting aloof as the future of Afghanistan is being decided.

https://thediplomat.com/2018/12/india-faces-a-new-reality-in-afghanistan/

Read this [above] please. It simply reads my thoughts which I have posted here before.

Don't be so harsh in showing the mirror , I never saw more clear comparison of the last 70 years of south asia

Hold your Ganga horses. Wait for my reply and then you can get ecstatic. Later.

 

[Crixus]

Some people love to be slaves they chase their masters to their countries , to prove their loyalties and now feeling proud of it.... and , they sworn to kiss the a$$ of the same queen who was responsible giving them the status of slaves and now their offsprings are giving lectures of self respect to others

ever heard of caravan dogs

Read this [above] please. It simply reads my thoughts which I have posted here before.

Hold your Ganga horses. Wait for my reply and then you can get ecstatic. Later.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Read this [above] please. It simply reads my thoughts which I have posted here before.

Hold your Ganga horses. Wait for my reply and then you can get ecstatic. Later.

........"hold your ganga horses"..........lol...............Good one bro!. That was hilarious...............

 

[Clutch]

Pakistan is nobody to decide that. Nobody outside Pakistan gives any real value to it's decisions or stance whether on Kashmir or Afghanistan.
Pakistanis can deny this all they want but it is the cold hard truth.

India has positioned itself in Afghanistan so well and brilliantly that the main pointmen of the both peace process' in Afghanistan are coming running to India to please Modi & Doval:
On 6th Jan 2019, pro India Zalmay Khalilzad (US special envoy for Afghanistan and main US pointman for Afghan peace process) is visiting India for three days to meet Doval & Modi.

On 21st December Zamir Kabulov (Russian special envoy for Afghanistan and pointman of Moscow peace process) visited India to take India's advice.

Similarly the EU led Belgium conference on Afghanistan also invited India as a main participant.

So now India has successfully made itself permanent stakeholder in Afghanistan something which was unthinkable just 19 years back .