Pakistan Researching Nuclear Fusion.

[Argus Panoptes]

Yea, my cousin has worked on the Tokamak. I was actually surprised when I was told about it, but it has been running for quite some time now.

A Tokamak reactor produces nuclear fusion for a very small amount of time...lots of work required in this field still.

The best reactors today can produce only about 65 to 70% of the input power, and fusion lasts only for less than one second at most. It will take a long time to get to a sustainable fusion reaction safely to produce commercial power. A long time.

 

[Nishan_101]

21 January 2008:

http://www.iter.org/newsline/15/1025

Pakistan launches national fusion program
-Sabina Griffith

Realizing the importance of fusion and the worldwide effort in this regard, Pakistan has launched a National Tokamak Fusion Program to develop human resource and capacity building. Under this program, the Government of Pakistan plans to install a small tokamak (like HT-6M of Hefei , China ) along with various accessories and diagnostics so as to acquire the basic scientific knowledge and the technical know-how of the fusion technology.




GLAST (tokamak) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

GLAST[2] (GLAss Spherical Tokamak)[2], is a small spherical magnetic confinement tokamak fusion reactor installed at the National Center for Physics by the Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission (PAEC) in 2008, with close coordination and collaboration with China.[3] It is a Magnetic confinement fusion spherical tokamak with an insulating vacuum vessel. The reactor is primary use to conduct scientific studies and experiments on nuclear fusion power by consuming plasmas to identify the mechanism responsible for current penetration during start-up phase of the tokamak discharge.[4] The reactor was developed by the PAEC with the help of Chinese assistance, and offers research on control plasmas.[5]

There is a serious need of JV with China and Russia which they should have done in 2000 for Thorium based reactors along with a power plant design of 350MW, 210 MW and small 160MW. Which can be really helpful for us in these times.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

There is a serious need of JV with China and Russia which they should have done in 2000 for Thorium based reactors along with a power plant design of 350MW, 210 MW and small 160MW. Which can be really helpful for us in these times.

While I agree with you in principle, please note that joint ventures usually work best when both sides have something useful to offer in return to the other. What can we offer China and Russia that they would consider such joint ventures to be advantageous for them as well?

 

[problemfreeleader]

MashALLAH keep it up.But still lot of work required for it.

 

[Armstrong]

@Talon @Aeronaut @Secur @Argus Panoptes @Hyperion :

For a layman like myself - What significance does this development hold for Pakistan, in the :

(i) Present

(ii) Future

(iii) Both of the above for Military purposes

Much Obliged !

 

[EAK]

 

[Dillinger]

@Talon @Aeronaut @Secur @Argus Panoptes @Hyperion :

For a layman like myself - What significance does this development hold for Pakistan, in the :

(i) Present

(ii) Future

(iii) Both of the above for Military purposes

Much Obliged !

NOT much for military purposes since this is not really Hydrogen/Fusion bomb material

A tokamak is essential for researching plasma properties and fusion reaction properties itself. The tokamak is a magnetic confinement device and is a candidate for delving into controlled thermonuclear fusion power. The keyword here is controlled. The GLAST, developed by China and PAEC is essential for Pakistan to study plasma properties and get a hang of plasma physics.

Currently the tokamak programs are being controlled in a coordinated effort under the ITER program which involves the following member nations- European Union as a block, India, Japan, People's Republic of China, Russia, South Korea, and the United States of America. Commencing on this path will be very beneficial for Pakistan, specially when it makes its own tokamak a few years down the line, Pakistan may even be able to enter ITER or DEMO. India itself completed its first tokamak ADITYA in 1989 and gained entry into ITER in 2005 due to our second tokamak- the solid state SST-1. Pakistan's GLAST is taken from the HT-6M of Hefei. It is a circular limiter configuration and has been copied on the exact same parameters of the HT-6M and HT-6B. The HT-6M has been replaced by the new superconducting tokamak EAST while HT-6B has been given to Iran.
@Hyperion @arp2041 btw remember the Iranian claims of building a "nuclear fusion reactor" , yup that was just the HT-6B that China gave them as a gift for good behavior.
@Secur samjha isse the importance of research.

Below is a picture of the HT-6M:-

 

[Armstrong]

@Dillinger : What insight does researching plasma &/or fusion reaction properties accrues to a country like Pakistan ? Does it serve as an input for some other industries or developments ? Do we even have them for the benefit to accrue to ?

 

[Dillinger]

@Armstrong I wish @Hyperion was here He'd be trolling the Iranians so BAD over this, I even have some "documents" detailing transfers of these babies- one to Iran.

What insight does researching plasma &/or fusion reaction properties accrues to a country like Pakistan ? Does it serve as an input for some other industries or developments ? Do we even have them ?

Yaara, research is research. There is no "industry" that is going to be making a marketable product out of this even in the US or India. Industries will participate in any future constructions of more advanced tokamaks if Pakistan follows that path. The tangible benefits can only even be imagined once the research is in place.

At that rate we'd have never needed a space program either, today we launch foreign sats and earn good commercial revenue. Its a VERY good step for Pakistan one way or the other.

 

[Dillinger]

@Armstrong Furthermore, what do you mean by countries "like" Pakistan, why should any country let go of advanced research. This isn't a bread or guns scenario. Someday all this research around the world will reap benefits, why should Pakistan be left out. Real and path breaking R&D occurs when you pursue it doggedly across the decades and establish yourself. If Pakistan does that then trust me it will be well worth the effort.

 

[Armstrong]

I've got two qualms with that !

(i) I still don't know how we'd benefit from engaging in research into this ? Does it serve as an input for other industries ? Does it bridge some significant knowledge gap that allows us to remove the dead-ends in other areas that we've been researching ? Does it give some sort of an input that we can use to develop something tangible afterwards ? What does it offer ?

(ii) Research is good but we've got fairly scarce resources & if the benefits accrued from this research aren't enough to off-set the costs, including the opportunity costs, then I'd rather we invest someplace else....!

 

[Dillinger]

I've got two qualms with that !

(i) I still don't know how we'd benefit from engaging in research into this ? Does it serve as an input for other industries ? Does it bridge some significant knowledge gap that allows us to remove the dead-ends in other areas that we've been researching ? Does it give some sort of an input that we can use to develop something tangible afterwards ? What does it offer ?

(ii) Research is good but we've got fairly scarce resources & if the benefits accrued from this research aren't enough to off-set the costs, including the opportunity costs, then I'd rather we invest someplace else....!

Well it won't help you "plug" any gaps in your existing projects.

Yaara its not as if you're pouring a billion dollars into this or something. Let me put it this way- its going to allow students and researchers greater insight than they've ever had before within Pakistan. When a country becomes part of international initiatives, Pakistan could maybe do that in the future by joining the ITER, then it strengthens your international position. Portrays you as a responsible member of the international community.

Besides the GLAST is a basic design as far as the tokamaks go, as Pakistan delves further into this area manufacturing and engineering expertise will accrue to its industries. Someday you people might end up making superconducting magnets, big application for those no? And the said magnets are a must for more advanced tokamaks like the double null divertor plasma config. The main component like coils for the SST-1 were fabricated by the Indian pvt. sector company Godrej- obviously they accrued critical expertise. The same may become possible in Pakistan.

Scarce resources should not become a pretext for not having a vision. How rich were we, how safe and secure, how prosperous when we launched ISRO?

 

[anilindia]

BARCELONA — Ground is now breaking in Cadarache, France, for the 18-billion-euro research facility dedicated to determine if the process that powers the sun can be harnessed to power our future without creating nuclear waste, causing meltdowns or producing carbon dioxide emissions.

The first nuclear fusion experiment of this magnitude, the International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor project promises to produce almost as much energy as the typical nuclear fission plant. Combining 28 years of research from nations representing 80 percent of the world’s GDP, ITER will be, by far, the largest international partnership to explore if the fusion of nuclei gives off bursts of energy that could more safely light Europe and beyond.

Today and tomorrow, SmartPlanet will discuss this project that has the research and investment of the European Union, the United States, China, South Korea, Japan, India and the Russian Federation, as we attempt to answer what fusion energy is, whether it’s safe and a feasible alternative to oil and gas, and how the public is reacting.


Building the world’s largest nuclear fusion reactor | SmartPlanet

 

[Dillinger]

@Armstrong Read the part on the SST-1 stage 2 refurbishment- we've modified the original design to add further diagnostics and we had some technical difficulties which had to be painstakingly rectified- a 5 year process completed in Jan last year.

http://dae.nic.in/writereaddata/ni/ni0312_z.pdf

Might give you some insight. If the link doesn't work then go the page below and click on the DAE's magazine link and open the 1st pdf.

Department of Atomic Energy

 

[Argus Panoptes]

@Talon @Aeronaut @Secur @Argus Panoptes @Hyperion :

For a layman like myself - What significance does this development hold for Pakistan, in the :

(i) Present

(ii) Future

(iii) Both of the above for Military purposes

Much Obliged !

I am a layman myself when it comes to nuclear topics, but there are mainly two types of research: basic and applied. Right now, nuclear fusion research is still in its basics and may or may not provide any useful applications in the future. What we need right now is applied research, which mean to take already developed technologies (like fission reactors for power generation) and indigenize them for our benefit. Basic research is good, but a nation has to get is own fundamentals in order first before it starts spending money on basic research.

I've got two qualms with that !

(i) I still don't know how we'd benefit from engaging in research into this ? Does it serve as an input for other industries ? Does it bridge some significant knowledge gap that allows us to remove the dead-ends in other areas that we've been researching ? Does it give some sort of an input that we can use to develop something tangible afterwards ? What does it offer ?

(ii) Research is good but we've got fairly scarce resources & if the benefits accrued from this research aren't enough to off-set the costs, including the opportunity costs, then I'd rather we invest someplace else....!

You make some good points here. I hope that those with technical knowledge in this field can answer your questions.