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Pakistan ranked 12th among 'failed states'

As someone who has seen Pakistan since its birth in 1947 I have the following comments:

Since Pakistan in 1947 is not the Pakistan of today and broke apart in 1971. It is a failed state in that sense.

Some people dispute two nation theory ( Altaf Hussain) others want to keep it for the natives (as some posts suggested in this forum), some want part of what is left of Pakistan to become Pakhtoonistan, BLNA wants independent Baluchistan and Jiya Sindh want Sindhu Desh. MMA wants to turn it into a "Theocracy" which is in total contrast to what the great Quaid intended. In that sense it is also a failed state.

However all that said and done, I am an optimist and I keep hoping that sooner and later better sense will prevail and Pakistanis would be Pakistanis not merely Punjabis, Pashtoons, Baluchs, Sindhis and Mohajirs. If it happens within my lifetime I would die a happy man. For the present, IMO for an ordinary man on the street; Pakistan is not a failed state; it is a "Dream gone sour".
 
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As someone who has seen Pakistan since its birth in 1947 I have the following comments:

Since Pakistan in 1947 is not the Pakistan of today and broke apart in 1971. It is a failed state in that sense.

Some people dispute two nation theory ( Altaf Hussain) others want to keep it for the natives (as some posts suggested in this forum), some want part of what is left of Pakistan to become Pakhtoonistan, BLNA wants independent Baluchistan and Jiya Sindh want Sindhu Desh. MMA wants to turn it into a "Theocracy" which is in total contrast to what the great Quaid intended. In that sense it is also a failed state.

However all that said and done, I am an optimist and I keep hoping that sooner and later better sense will prevail and Pakistanis would be Pakistanis not merely Punjabis, Pashtoons, Baluchs, Sindhis and Mohajirs. If it happens within my lifetime I would die a happy man. For the present, IMO for an ordinary man on the street; Pakistan is not a failed state; it is a "Dream gone sour".

Agree whole heartedly.
 
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As someone who has seen Pakistan since its birth in 1947 I have the following comments:

Since Pakistan in 1947 is not the Pakistan of today and broke apart in 1971. It is a failed state in that sense.

If it happens within my lifetime I would die a happy man. For the present, IMO for an ordinary man on the street; Pakistan is not a failed state; it is a "Dream gone sour".

A very nice and balanced post.

Regards
 
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niaz I have heard the leaders of Pakistan ruined its ecnomy previously? Is it true? like south korea borrowed your economic model or whatever but your leaders themselves screwed things up..

Reminds me why US today is US, because of its leaders.
 
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It is very true. Our very dear ZA Bhutto nationalized every industry you can name. Even the rice procurement, cotton procuremnet etc were nationalized. Economics is power. If you nationalize the banks you control who gets the loan, if you take away someone's factory and give him a piece of paper based on the break up value and that he will get his money in 5 to ten years, he runs away and invests somewhere else.

I will not dwell too much on it as it touches many raw nerves. Suffice to say that enomomic development of Pakistan was on a strong footing with three 5 year plans during Ayub time. Social development has been the 'Achilles heel' in all Pakistan Army rule and economic power was concentrated in the 22 families. Bhutto broke the power of 22 families but killed off private investment interest until Zia started selling off nationalized units.

My personal experience is democratic rule in Pakistan has been very bad from the economic point of view but good for social development. Nail in the coffin of Pakistan's economy was the sanctions after the blasts and freezing up of people's foreign exchange deposits. Indian per capita GDP only surpassed Pakistan's in the 90's. Irony is that at the time Narisma Rao freed up the Indian economy and IT growth took off. Pakistans' economy was on the verge of default.

Dont know the reason but Pakistan's society is still a "Tribal" culture and people vote based upon 'Braderi' and ethnicity rather than merit. IMHO a return to democartic rule will see a down turn in the economy again. However I am willing to put up with it if that is what the people really want.
 
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Salaam all!

I think this failed state index (American think tank and so on), is another way of pychologically undermining any potential country. it is also a way of informing the American citizens and it's like minded counterparts across the world that if you keep repeating 'failed state' then stigmatizing a nation will bear a hostile and a negative response...like 'nuke em all' it's a failed state (ive had so many westerners make this comments in a discussion).

The west has a tactic of demonising a country...telling lies upon lies....and then undermining the regimes/leadership/parliament of those countries....and then saying...'I told you so'....then if their interest suits them.....launch an attack on them....under the justification of a failed state....being a failed state it will then pose a threat to the rest of the so called civilzed world.

The biggest terrorist to the world have been arrogant powers, such as the USA and other western nations. They have dictated their ways around the world and if they do not get what they want...they with their CIA agencies start to undermine those countries....for instance the CIA has been given funds to undermine Iran, Sudan and many other countries in the world as they did previously with Columbia and other South american states....thus it would be no surprise to see those countries who oppose the USA's hegemony in their regions to be labelled as a failed state. The USA funds alot of these so called think tanks....who will 'engineer'....the words that their funders want....such as the illegal invasion of Iraq.....their own dossier were engineered so that they could have the 'moral' right to invade another sovereign nation.

The west has got it's economic power at the moment, but it's a spiritually dying states...just look at the amount of crime waves in the USA alone, the increase in illegitimate childrens (i.e Bastards), murder rates (it has more killings each year than the entire vietnam war), the spread of sexual diseases, the increase in the breakdowns of family - through adultery/fornication, look at the daily increase in their prison populations....what does it show....possibly a failed state in some ways!!!

Pakistan and other countries have not done well, because the developments of these nations had been undermined by corrupt individuls in cohoots with the Western arrogant powers.

My personal belief is that Pakistan has not done well. because it has not implemented Islam as a complete way of life....I mean ISLAM the religion of Peace. If it had been implemented then there would be no divisions of whether on is a baluchi or punjabi or any one cast....no one person is superior to another unless in piety.

There is no extremism or loose following in this religion....Islam is the middle way...the straight path. However, sadly it has been hijacked by 'hypocrites' ....these people have made it hard. there is no racism in Islam (look at the hajj....people of all colour...standing shoulder to shoulder....the same uniform....the rich standing next to the poor.....here at the hajj...all are equal in the sight of the ALLMIGHTY. In pakistan there should be no ethnic problems if they implemented Islam....Furthermore, the non-muslims would be treated with respect/courtesy as in the days of the Prophets...yet we see abuse by illiterate so called religios leaders.

Islam is the most tolerant religion on this planet...however...the 'idiot's...who clearly have not studied Islam have shown on the contarary. Pakistan and to that effect other muslim nations...should not follow any other ideology....any form of communism/socialism/capitalism...or any other ism.....Islam is a complete way of life and has the answers for the domestic/social/economic/military matters....as proven by it's past.

At the moment...the west and it's allies are trying their best to discredit this great religion....but to no avail....just look around at the 'flocks' of people coming into this religion. I american alone...since sept 11....there have been 1.5 million new american muslims converting!
 
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The biggest country thats undermining US is China, i dont see they saying the same thing about China.
 
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To Foxhound,

What looks good on paper doesnt applies universally, dont blame the devil for that.

Welcome to reality while you keep thinking about this and that 'could' happened 'if' they did and done this.

Honestly speaking your post sounds like a completely brainwashed person, who have no idea of realpolitik.
 
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Salaam all!

I think this failed state index (American think tank and so on), is another way of pychologically undermining any potential country. it is also a way of informing the American citizens and it's like minded counterparts across the world that if you keep repeating 'failed state' then stigmatizing a nation will bear a hostile and a negative response...like 'nuke em all' it's a failed state (ive had so many westerners make this comments in a discussion).
t the moment...the west and it's allies are trying their best to discredit this great religion....but to no avail....just look around at the 'flocks' of people coming into this religion. I american alone...since sept 11....there have been 1.5 million new american muslims converting!


Dear Foxhound,

Your post is more like a sermon than a post. I just have to remove the words Allah and muslims from your post and replace them with God and Christians (or equivalent other religious words) and I could hear the same sermon in the Church up my street. Till date I have not heard anything from you which technically discredit the criterias of indexing the failed state list with solid counter arguments.

In addition to Pakistan they have named Nepal, Bangladesh etc, so by your logic they are in planning in future to nuke them to ?

Regards
 
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I have to say one thing about this. According to BBC, this think-tank or whatever it is, base their report from news article and reports. This is from BBC:

The second annual Failed States Index was based on analysis of tens of thousands of articles including international and local media reports and public documents.


Now honestly, why would you use media reports and articles to make up an index? You know very well that in this day and age, it's hard to find a non-biased report/article. Almost every article has some sort of biased associated with it. And when you're talking about thousands of articles, there is no doubt that majority of them would be biased. This fact is also very important in Pakistan's case, which has seen the worst of the worst media bias, both local and internationally. Media is always trying to malign Pakistan in one way or another.

This is basically a stupid and inefficient way to make up an index, unless they intentionally wanted it to be biased. Take your pick as to why they would use media articles to make up the index.

Also one more thing to notice. Look at the staff of this think-tank.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/aboutfp/staff.php

Two interesting names, especially ones that are specialisits on South Asia.
 
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Salaam all!

I think this failed state index (American think tank and so on), is another way of pychologically undermining any potential country. it is also a way of informing the American citizens and it's like minded counterparts across the world that if you keep repeating 'failed state' then stigmatizing a nation will bear a hostile and a negative response...like 'nuke em all' it's a failed state (ive had so many westerners make this comments in a discussion).

The west has a tactic of demonising a country...telling lies upon lies....and then undermining the regimes/leadership/parliament of those countries....and then saying...'I told you so'....then if their interest suits them.....launch an attack on them....under the justification of a failed state....being a failed state it will then pose a threat to the rest of the so called civilzed world.

The biggest terrorist to the world have been arrogant powers, such as the USA and other western nations. They have dictated their ways around the world and if they do not get what they want...they with their CIA agencies start to undermine those countries....for instance the CIA has been given funds to undermine Iran, Sudan and many other countries in the world as they did previously with Columbia and other South american states....thus it would be no surprise to see those countries who oppose the USA's hegemony in their regions to be labelled as a failed state. The USA funds alot of these so called think tanks....who will 'engineer'....the words that their funders want....such as the illegal invasion of Iraq.....their own dossier were engineered so that they could have the 'moral' right to invade another sovereign nation.

The west has got it's economic power at the moment, but it's a spiritually dying states...just look at the amount of crime waves in the USA alone, the increase in illegitimate childrens (i.e Bastards), murder rates (it has more killings each year than the entire vietnam war), the spread of sexual diseases, the increase in the breakdowns of family - through adultery/fornication, look at the daily increase in their prison populations....what does it show....possibly a failed state in some ways!!!

Pakistan and other countries have not done well, because the developments of these nations had been undermined by corrupt individuls in cohoots with the Western arrogant powers.

My personal belief is that Pakistan has not done well. because it has not implemented Islam as a complete way of life....I mean ISLAM the religion of Peace. If it had been implemented then there would be no divisions of whether on is a baluchi or punjabi or any one cast....no one person is superior to another unless in piety.

There is no extremism or loose following in this religion....Islam is the middle way...the straight path. However, sadly it has been hijacked by 'hypocrites' ....these people have made it hard. there is no racism in Islam (look at the hajj....people of all colour...standing shoulder to shoulder....the same uniform....the rich standing next to the poor.....here at the hajj...all are equal in the sight of the ALLMIGHTY. In pakistan there should be no ethnic problems if they implemented Islam....Furthermore, the non-muslims would be treated with respect/courtesy as in the days of the Prophets...yet we see abuse by illiterate so called religios leaders.

Islam is the most tolerant religion on this planet...however...the 'idiot's...who clearly have not studied Islam have shown on the contarary. Pakistan and to that effect other muslim nations...should not follow any other ideology....any form of communism/socialism/capitalism...or any other ism.....Islam is a complete way of life and has the answers for the domestic/social/economic/military matters....as proven by it's past.

At the moment...the west and it's allies are trying their best to discredit this great religion....but to no avail....just look around at the 'flocks' of people coming into this religion. I american alone...since sept 11....there have been 1.5 million new american muslims converting!

Mullah jee its about time u see the reality and USA is the greatest nation on earth and far from failed state.
 
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sorry this will be my first time responding on this forum. but i could not hold back. i live in US. i use to have lot of indians friends. who were all american citizens. but what i know ones a indian is always an indian. what happen in 1947. that was the divided line. after that no metter what you do for your best indian friends. they will never like you just because you are from pakistan so living abroad does not change anything for them.
 
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sorry this will be my first time responding on this forum. but i could not hold back. i live in US. i use to have lot of indians friends. who were all american citizens. but what i know ones a indian is always an indian. what happen in 1947. that was the divided line. after that no metter what you do for your best indian friends. they will never like you just because you are from pakistan so living abroad does not change anything for them.

I have the same case with my pakistani friends,
quit generalizing and accept that you are a humans, and humans basically dont like each other..lol
 
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Now honestly, why would you use media reports and articles to make up an index? You know very well that in this day and age, it's hard to find a non-biased report/article. Almost every article has some sort of biased associated with it. And when you're talking about thousands of articles, there is no doubt that majority of them would be biased. This fact is also very important in Pakistan's case, which has seen the worst of the worst media bias, both local and internationally. Media is always trying to malign Pakistan in one way or another.

This is basically a stupid and inefficient way to make up an index, unless they intentionally wanted it to be biased. Take your pick as to why they would use media articles to make up the index.

Well Ahsan, Media is always critical of govts, whether it be the one in Brazil or US or Poland or Pakistan. Media is a critic, if a thousand reports are taken of any country in the world you will find majority of them being critical. Take for eg the BRIC economies, inspite of the econmic surge they are making the press is filled with criticsm. Even when they report Indian Mittal buying out Zreclor, BBC ends the report by saying 'India still has majority of the people living in poverty' totally irrelevant but thats the case.

So dont pinpoint Media bias as a reason. Its the same with all countries.

And regarding the staff i would say its a very childish comment to make, refer to the earlier posts we have already discussed it.
 
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