Pakistan probes '$100 ID cards for militants' scam

[That Guy]

Stop using your fucked up brain, and take help of someone who can explain you meaning of "Russian invasion of Pakistan, backed by India" and dont waste my time ..

Don't post quotes of things that you literally don't know the context to.

If you can't tell the difference between two clearly different statements, than that's your problem. It's like saying "there" and "their" are the same thing.

 

[Dubious]

bribes as small as US$100.

Selling the nation that too for $100 at a time...Greed really has no limit!

 

[RazorMC]

its a global problem. we have a lot of Social Security numbers assigned to fake people or people who are not authorized to old one. Unfortunately its going to be a persistent problem and you will have to continually evolve checks and balances to deal with it. Instead of just punishing the corrupt officials, you should also look into ways to strengthen the process of obtaining a NADRA card. every case you crack provides you the loophole you need to plug.. over the course of years, you will strengthen it enough to reduce the number of fake identities. But they will probably never become 0.

It's similar but not the same. Those illegals are not involved in terrorist activities like Afghan refugees with fake NICs. They do not earn in the same country they abuse.

This is what's disappointing. After every hospitality extended to them when others refuse to take them in, this bad-mouthing and crime-spree is what we got.

On topic though; we need to make an example of this and should be taken as an act of treason.

Don't post quotes of things that you literally don't know the context to.

If you can't tell the difference between two clearly different statements, than that's your problem. It's like saying "there" and "their" are the same thing.

They will go round and round on this topic, but they will never take in Afghan refugees.

They know exactly what kind of backstabbers most of them have been.

Stop using your fucked up brain, and take help of someone who can explain you meaning of "Russian invasion of Pakistan, backed by India" and dont waste my time ..

Bro you just went full retard.

 

[VCheng]

In its own investigation into the racket, the Federal Investigation Agency found more than 50,000 national identity cards had been issued to illegal immigrants, most of them Afghans.

50k cards at $100 a pop is a cool $5,000,000, i.e. $5 million. And what if it is more than 50k cards at more than $100? Millions more. Very likely.

 

[Arsalan]

Nur Mohammad Taraki govt asked for Russian help to fight against rebels and your supported rebels because USA asked you and you made it fight against USSR and then into a religion base fight and when you setup a fire like that it spreads in all directions and causes loss to all, hence even after USSR left Afganistan, the fire was still on locals has no other place to move other than crossing the porus border to get a better life. So you created a situation which resulted into so many refugees in your nation. Did you ever ponder why only Pakistan got so many refugees and not other neighbours.

Nur Mohammad Taraki? really?

You must read from history books the events leading to that "SOS call from Taraki" and what actually happened to him after the invasion.

That was all a setup, a cosmetic setup. The USSR were there to invade for obviously clear other reason that we all know about. You can check them if you REALLY want to learn about it. If the idea is only to bash Pakistan for anything and everything no matter how stupid it sounds, i don't think any reference can help you my friend.

Also, you raise the same question again so i will like to ask you again, you think that our fault was we let them in when the Russians were killing them? A more sensible approach would have been to seal the border and let them be killed there? Again, if the idea is to put blame for everything on Pakistan nothing will really help you, but if you really want to learn about it, how about accepting the fact that KPK (NWFP at that time) is a Puhktoon majority province bordering Pakistan so obviously they would have felt more at home here in KPK - Pakistan. Also the fact that a large number of Shia - Hazara community took refuge in Iran for same ethnic reasons. AGAIN, THIS WILL ONLY BE HELPFUL IF YOU WANT TO LEARN SOMETHING. Else, i feel sorry for you.

 

[Imran Khan]

every thing is for sale man

These pictures of the Dubai Consulate say otherwise!

View attachment 248800 View attachment 248801

same story in kingdom of KSA only our false proud is here in PDF in real nothing is different on ground level
bengaldesh

india

pakistan

 

[Viny]

Nur Mohammad Taraki? really?

You must read from history books the events leading to that "SOS call from Taraki" and what actually happened to him after the invasion.

That was all a setup, a cosmetic setup. The USSR were there to invade for obviously clear other reason that we all know about. You can check them if you REALLY want to learn about it. If the idea is only to bash Pakistan for anything and everything no matter how stupid it sounds, i don't think any reference can help you my friend.

Also, you raise the same question again so i will like to ask you again, you think that our fault was we let them in when the Russians were killing them? A more sensible approach would have been to seal the border and let them be killed there? Again, if the idea is to put blame for everything on Pakistan nothing will really help you, but if you really want to learn about it, how about accepting the fact that KPK (NWFP at that time) is a Puhktoon majority province bordering Pakistan so obviously they would have felt more at home here in KPK - Pakistan. Also the fact that a large number of Shia - Hazara community took refuge in Iran for same ethnic reasons. AGAIN, THIS WILL ONLY BE HELPFUL IF YOU WANT TO LEARN SOMETHING. Else, i feel sorry for you.

First of all, keep aside the notion that every Indian is here to bash Pakistan at large. This is neither the aim of forum nor the aim of every member here. Secondly its no harm in looking back and checking where things gone wrong, there might be 1000s of things that was done right but few wrong things are the one that always help to learn.

Biggest learning for Pakistan from the Agfan war is that proxy war never helps in solving problem, it only makes you burn your hands. Secondly in the fight of two superpowers, the ground and supporter are the biggest loosers. Here ground was Afganistan and supporter were likes of Pakistan.

Raising a proxy to fight against a powerful enemy can only prolong the war, but would not bring solution. Rather it would always create fractions of powers no mater who wins. And these fractions of power will never be in rest unless there is some very powerfull reason bring them together.

What pakistan could have done.

1. Form a coalition and oppose it in UN and push US and Europe to control Russia instead of being an agent of USA and OIC and raising arms conflict.
2. Setup refugee camps at border or inside Afghanistan under UN Charter, marked it as restricted access area under UN Control.
3. Work and Enforce that UN works towards rehabilitation of refugees under camps to there native land.
4. Engage Taraki in talks to find ambical solution, if USA can do that during cuban crises, same could have been achieved very easily in Afgan crises.
5. Should have taken it as Afgan war and not a war against Muslims at large.


And its always helpful to learn, if you remove the color glasses and read the things in real colors, whether you like it or not its always helps in understand cause and effect and how we can manage it.

 

[punit]

Since you care so much about the Afghans, why don't you adopt the 4+ million Afghanis in Pakistan?

that is because u displaced them on the order of Uncle Sam and Uncle Saud !

 

[Arsalan]

First of all, keep aside the notion that every Indian is here to bash Pakistan at large. This is neither the aim of forum nor the aim of every member here. Secondly its no harm in looking back and checking where things gone wrong, there might be 1000s of things that was done right but few wrong things are the one that always help to learn.

well i never said that ALL members have this aim, i do personally know a few who are here to learn, to educate others and to learn themselves. They always contribute in a positive manner instead of posting one liners like ... you know which one!
I always appreciate such posts and always happy to be told what mistake i made and how can i correct that.

Biggest learning for Pakistan from the Agfan war is that proxy war never helps in solving problem, it only makes you burn your hands. Secondly in the fight of two superpowers, the ground and supporter are the biggest loosers. Here ground was Afganistan and supporter were likes of Pakistan.

Raising a proxy to fight against a powerful enemy can only prolong the war, but would not bring solution. Rather it would always create fractions of powers no mater who wins. And these fractions of power will never be in rest unless there is some very powerfull reason bring them together.

NO this is actually the third topic you have moved to in the last three posts. The question remains, Afghan took refuge in Pakistan because Pakistan asked Russia to invade? if not then when they were there and killing the afghans what were we supposed to do? AND as i mentioned, it was not only Pakistan, the hazara/Shia community moved to Iran.

As for the argument that we could have acted differently to gain more and lose lesser from that war, NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT, we could have. But saying that it was Pakistan that made Afghans take refuge in Pakistan or forced them to get into a position to take refuge anywhere is absurd to say the least. The taraki issue you pointed to have a long complex background that i will AGAIN stress you may read if you are interested in the topic. Try "The Great Gamble: Soviet ear in Afghanistan by former NPR Moscow correspondent Gregory Feifer" that will clear a lot of doubts, IF YOU WANT TO CLEAR THEM.

What pakistan could have done.

1. Form a coalition and oppose it in UN and push US and Europe to control Russia instead of being an agent of USA and OIC and raising arms conflict.
2. Setup refugee camps at border or inside Afghanistan under UN Charter, marked it as restricted access area under UN Control.
3. Work and Enforce that UN works towards rehabilitation of refugees under camps to there native land.
4. Engage Taraki in talks to find ambical solution, if USA can do that during cuban crises, same could have been achieved very easily in Afgan crises.
5. Should have taken it as Afgan war and not a war against Muslims at large.

Yes, i agree what you have said. These things would have worked better for us. However, don't you think that it is much easier to write/advise all this NOW when we have seen the outcome of the other choices? If you put yourself in boots of men making decision at that time and ignore what you now know as a fact as it have actually happened, you will find that the decisions, made on that time were not wrong to those men. I can confidently say that if those same men are put into that same time again they will make the same decisions, however if those same men are to make decision today, knowing what actually happened in 80s and afterwards, those same people will make totally different decisions.

Just as an example, we had lost a war to our arch rival India, at that time the idea would have been to keep the closest ally of India, the Russians as far away from our western borders as possible and it would have been even better if in doing so we could have please the other super power of that time, the US into supporting us. It is only now that we know how it all turned out, at that time, that would have sounded pretty awesome deal.

AND in the end, i will like to quote

Its always helpful to learn, if you remove the color glasses and read the things in real colors, whether you like it or not its always helps in understand cause and effect and how we can manage it.

It is easier to say what you have suggested (that is correct to a large extent) now when the outcome is known than it would have been to do at that time.

 

[Viny]

well i never said that ALL members have this aim, i do personally know a few who are here to learn, to educate others and to learn themselves. They always contribute in a positive manner instead of posting one liners like ... you know which one!
I always appreciate such posts and always happy to be told what mistake i made and how can i correct that.

Its nice to see that you are open to healthy discussions.

NO this is actually the third topic you have moved to in the last three posts. The question remains, Afghan took refuge in Pakistan because Pakistan asked Russia to invade? if not then when they were there and killing the afghans what were we supposed to do? AND as i mentioned, it was not only Pakistan, the hazara/Shia community moved to Iran.

Nopes Afgan tooks refuge in Pakistan, because pakistan got involved in war indirectly on the name of religion and when the actors trained in pakistan brought the action into city, locals had no other place to go and to gain sympanthy with locals so that taliban gets mass support pakistan played helping hand card which resulted in porus and unmanaged refugee access into Pakistan. Although whole situation was not that straight forward, but thats kind of jist.

Yes, i agree what you have said. These things would have worked better for us. However, don't you think that it is much easier to write/advise all this NOW when we have seen the outcome of the other choices? If you put yourself in boots of men making decision at that time and ignore what you now know as a fact as it have actually happened, you will find that the decisions, made on that time were not wrong to those men. I can confidently say that if those same men are put into that same time again they will make the same decisions, however if those same men are to make decision today, knowing what actually happened in 80s and afterwards, those same people will make totally different decisions.

Pakisthan had a golden time in Ayub Khan era and country was growing very good and then 1971 happened, this made pakistan realize that with growth they need power and during later half of 70's Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto liberal polices where challenged by Zia Ul Haq and who not only wanted more power but also more religiously inclined Pakistan. Thats what influenced the decisions made on that time.

Just as an example, we had lost a war to our arch rival India, at that time the idea would have been to keep the closest ally of India, the Russians as far away from our western borders as possible and it would have been even better if in doing so we could have please the other super power of that time, the US into supporting us. It is only now that we know how it all turned out, at that time, that would have sounded pretty awesome deal.

Proxy wars can never make you gain long term peace as it creates regional powers, its been known historically and on top of that coloring it with religion was the biggest mistake made. That could have been the easiest way to have control over the actions in Afganistan, but as we know that was also the easiest way to lose the control too.

AND in the end, i will like to quote


It is easier to say what you have suggested (that is correct to a large extent) now when the outcome is known than it would have been to do at that time.

Humans always have choices, its what we select decides what we achieve.
They say sane minds take right decisions which more based on human growth over the power growth.

 

[Arsalan]

Its nice to see that you are open to healthy discussions.

Always,

Nopes Afgan tooks refuge in Pakistan, because pakistan got involved in war indirectly on the name of religion and when the actors trained in pakistan brought the action into city, locals had no other place to go and to gain sympanthy with locals so that taliban gets mass support pakistan played helping hand card which resulted in porus and unmanaged refugee access into Pakistan. Although whole situation was not that straight forward, but thats kind of jist.

is it really so easy to ignore the USSR invasion part?
The refuge situation was not creat by Pakistan, it was created by war, the war USSR imposed on Afghanistan. Our policies only helped the Afghan get refuge here but these policies were not the cause. Had there been no war, there wont have been any refugees, so stating that, as originally did, Pakistan make them refugees is absurd really. Now if i say that you are easily side stepping THE MOST OBVIOUS reason for the problem just to put blame on Pakistan you will say that not everyone wants to blame Pakistan for everything. I am surprised how conveniently you ignored the invasion part of the refuge situation.
After the invasion, whatever policies we adopted there would have been refugees getting here. They were Muslims, they were phuktoons and shared that with locals in bordering NWFP so it was bound to happen. The amount may have been kept a little lower with some different set of policies but then again, at that time who had an idea?

Pakisthan had a golden time in Ayub Khan era and country was growing very good and then 1971 happened, this made pakistan realize that with growth they need power and during later half of 70's Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto liberal polices where challenged by Zia Ul Haq and who not only wanted more power but also more religiously inclined Pakistan. Thats what influenced the decisions made on that time.

Yes at that time, it was had a big influence on how Pakistan chose to react.

Proxy wars can never make you gain long term peace as it creates regional powers, its been known historically and on top of that coloring it with religion was the biggest mistake made. That could have been the easiest way to have control over the actions in Afghanistan, but as we know that was also the easiest way to lose the control too.

Again, this is a conclusion easier to come to now when we have known how even unfolded. At that time no one would have any idea. China and USSR beat the shit out of US in Vietnam in a proxy war, the goal was, when our on border and interests were threatened, to keep the ally of the worst enemy as far away from our border as possible. The bonus was that in doing so, you will get all the much need armed aid and global recognition.