Pakistan not ‘gouging’ over NATO’s Afghan routes: Khar

[OrionHunter]

Pakistan should just ignore americans request and stay strong, we dont need this blood money

You may not, but your government is desperate for those dollars. It may not be long before Zardari and Co buckle under pressure and the lure of those greenbacks and welcome the Yanks once more. There's too much at stake for Pakistan.

The routes through Pakistan would be opened sooner than later - apology or no apology!

 

[Agni5000]

paise penko tamasha dekho!!!!

 

[FireFighter]

You may not, but your government is desperate for those dollars. It may not be long before Zardari and Co buckle under pressure and the lure of those greenbacks and welcome the Yanks once more. There's too much at stake for Pakistan.

The routes through Pakistan would be opened sooner than later - apology or no apology!

I hardly doubt that`s going to be the case this time. Elections looming over the head next year, PPP govn`t won`t be committing political suicide given the vibrant media`s backlash. Nor would the military going to take such a bold step, that would give the political parties esp PPP n the Nleage unnecessarily libido to blackmail the army to step further back in the barracks.

It kinda suits both the army and political parties to keep the routes shut.

 

[Avatar]

Those 18 F-16 jets Pakistan bought in 2009 had nothing, repeat nothing to do with the 1990s. In fact PAF wanted 32 F-16s but because of finance problems and the 2005 earthquake the order was reduced to 18. Exactly how are you qualified on Pakistan's air defence needs when your sat pretty enjoying Her Majesty the Queen's protection?

Sarfriz why not ask the Chinese members in China Defence forum what does the Chinese Air force use as it's frontline strike fighter? Guess what the Russian made Su-30. What does that tell you?

What I do know Pakistan Airforce wanted the F-16s and the Saab Hawkeye Awacs systems. The Chinese planes do not stand a chance against Indian Russian made Su-30s.

Small correction, India uses Su-30 MKI which are significantly different from Su-30's due to Israeli and Indian upgrades on the very capable Russian platform.

Secondly, Pakistan needs trade and good relations with the US if it wants to be able to afford even the Chinese fighters, and the Chinese 5th generation twin engine craft. Without these, I am not sure how PAF will prepare itself to deal with IAF in the 2020's.

China may give soft loans to purchase more weaponry, but it will still add to Pakistan's debt and debt without income is a bad thing.

 

[BATMAN]

That's for public consumption in pakistan, reality is different.

Why people in US/India can't read English or have no access to internet or the news url is blocked?

 

[A.Muqeet khan]

How ironic would it be if Pakistan ends up apologizing in private for closing the supply routes for this long?

perhaps yes and perhaps not i bet u aint gonna do **** ATLEAST TO PAKISTAN

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Small correction, India uses Su-30 MKI which are significantly different from Su-30's due to Israeli and Indian upgrades on the very capable Russian platform.

Secondly, Pakistan needs trade and good relations with the US if it wants to be able to afford even the Chinese fighters, and the Chinese 5th generation twin engine craft. Without these, I am not sure how PAF will prepare itself to deal with IAF in the 2020's.

China may give soft loans to purchase more weaponry, but it will still add to Pakistan's debt and debt without income is a bad thing.

Thanks for the clarification. My point was that the Chinese Airforce has elected to buy Russian made Su-30s to equip its front line fighter squadrons. Why has the Chinese Airforce ignored their own Chinese made jets? The answer is that Chinese made jets are just 'bread and butter' variety and are no match for the Russian made Su-30s that Indian Airforce uses.

The Chinese jets tend to be reverse engineered second hand Russian designs and make good, cheap planes to provide for bog standard squadrons but are no good against 4th generation advanced jets like Russian made Su-30s. Even the Chinese know that, their own jets are second rate which is why they are compelled to buy Russian fighters.

That is why PAF wanted the block 52 F-16s because these just about enable PAF to even consider mounting a response against Indian Su-30s. The Americans felt that the block 52 had senstive high tech and were concerned these might be leaked to China - which is understandable, that is why they attached strings to the sale.

No doubt in time China will be able to make jets that can take on the best in the world but as of now it can't. The fact China has to buy from Russia proves this.

Almost 80% of Pakistan's export go the US/Europe. When they catch the first banana boat out of Pakistan to escape poverty [ sorry do the work that Westerners can't or won't do ] where do they head to? China or the West? Most of our exports go the West, most of our people go the West yet once there we sing songs about China and b**ch and moan about the West.

This contradiction and hypocrisy is most evident in Pakistani's who might be sat in London through choice but choose to sing songs in praise of China. If they were sat in Beijing at least they might have some credibility.

Perverse !!!

** Yes, when I got into the banana boat I headed for UK, I make no bones about that for I knew my interests would be better served here.

 

[Awesome]

Panetta recently said that an apology "is not all that they are demanding".

I think the real kicker is the end to drone strikes agreement.

Up until now the US had a lever - US Aid they'd dangle and withhold at a time of their choosing. Pakistan now has one too so if they get into a deal today and drone strike us tomorrow we can cut off their aid once again.

I also think any payment must be taken in advance and no work must be done on credit.

 

[SMC]

Thats 1.2 billion USD per year. <0.2% of our defense budget. You really want to make that your biggest bargaining point?

Why is US crying over these routes then? Keep using NDN.

You may not, but your government is desperate for those dollars. It may not be long before Zardari and Co buckle under pressure and the lure of those greenbacks and welcome the Yanks once more. There's too much at stake for Pakistan.

The routes through Pakistan would be opened sooner than later - apology or no apology!

Uh huh.. how long have you been bharatis saying this? Pretty much since the attacks last November?

 

[POST_HUMAN_WAR]

Sarfriz

Read this .... "China &#8216;close to buying $4 bln worth&#8217; of Russian Su-35 top interceptors"

China

Why would the Chinese buy these Russian Su-35s if they their own fighters are so good? Because their fighters are okay but they cannot match Indian Russian made Su-30s.

" India buys russian Su-30s" India set to buy 42 more Russian Su-30 fighter jets | Defense | RIA Novosti

Can you see wiseguy why PAF wanted F-16s because although even they would struggle against Indian Su-30s but at least they would stand some chance. The Chinese know it, PAF knows it but Sarfriz thinks differant !!!

Chinese have Denied any plans to buy the SU 35
The Jamestown Foundation: Beijing Denies Russian Rumors of Su-35 Purchase; Evaluating China's Intelligence Penetration of Taiwan
(thank you martian and siegecrossbow for clarify the rumors about the Purchase of the su 35)

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Chinese have Denied any plans to buy the SU 35
The Jamestown Foundation: Beijing Denies Russian Rumors of Su-35 Purchase; Evaluating China's Intelligence Penetration of Taiwan
(thank you martian and siegecrossbow for clarify the rumors about the Purchase of the su 35)

Thanks for the correction. I am not a expert on fighters or air defence so I invite your views on the following:-

* Do the Chinese use Russian made Su-30s?
* Which aircraft do frontline Chinese fighter squadrons use?
* Why do the Chinese even buy Russian aircraft?
* If you take out PAF F-16s [ Block 52 ] what do we have that can handle Indian Su-30s?
* Why did PAF try so hard [despite US reservations ] to get F-16s?
* Why not have got JS-Grippen, Rafale or even better the Joint Fighter Thunder?

** And finally what effrects if any, would a US embargo have on PAF? Here I am thinking such a embargo would be enforced also by all NATO/Western countries?

* Why did PAF buy Swedish SAAB Hawkeye when lot of the hi-tech on that platform are US sourced? Why not have bought Chinese?

Thanks.

++ I understand that various Russian jets are licence made in China, like the Su-27 becomes J-11 and those bought from the Russians direct are still tagged as Su-27-30.

 

[POST_HUMAN_WAR]

Thanks for the correction.

Its ok we all make mistakes

I am not a expert on fighters or air defence so I invite your views on the following:-

neither am i but i will answer your questions with the best of my ablity

* Do the Chinese use Russian made Su-30s?

yes

* If you take out PAF F-16s [ Block 52 ] what do we have that can handle Indian Su-30s?

currently nothing

* Why did PAF try so hard to get F-16s

we had years of expernce in operating f 16s and these f 16s were brought earlier but were never delivered due to sactions.

* Why not have got JS-Grippen, Rafale or even better the Joint Fighter Thunder?

JS grippen usese USA engines and we were under sactions,rafale to costy and we do have
joint Fighter Thunder in our fleet.

** And finally what effrects if any, would a US embargo have on PAF? Here I am thinking such a embargo would be enforced also by all NATO/Western countries?

our f 16s will not have any avaible spare parts long term sactions may result in our f 16s becoming unflyable we may need to cannibalize one fighter for spare parts so the other one can become operational

** * Why did PAF buy Swedish SAAB Hawkeye when lot of the hi-tech on that platform are US sourced? Why not have bought Chinese?

I think we bought both the Chinese one and Swedsh one

++ I understand that various Russian jets are licence made in China, like the Su-27 becomes J-11 and those bought from the Russians direct are still tagged as Su-27-30.

just the j 11a and j 5(outdated)