Pakistan: No Dollars/Euros, No Army

[FaujHistorian]

The first thing to do, in order to improve Government revenues, is to implement tax reform.

The second thing to do, is to improve the efficiency of Government spending. And Government spending should be for the long term benefit of the nation, and especially focused on "social infrastructure" like education, and commit effort to improve the administrative/economic systems, and of course physical infrastructure like roads/water/electricity.

These things have the best multiplier effects for the economy.

My dear Chinese friend.

you should tell us to be like you when it comes to hoarding dollars and Euros.

I am sure you know the current amount of dollars and Euros reserves with Chinese government.

I am sure you do.

All the things I mentioned, social infrastructure (education), improving economic/administrative systems, and physical infrastructure... all of these can be bought with local currency.

Surely all the above are more of a priority than foreign arms purchases? Less foreign arms purchases, more spending on economic fundamentals, this is how the Government budget should be spent. And tax reform is the only way to finance that.

Once the system is reformed, foreign currency can be earned through trading. But foreign arms should be low priority until the economy is on better footing.

I don't know what "tax lingo" you are talking about.

Please share with us how much taxes are collected in China that are in Chinese currency.

We'll go from there.



p.s.

I mentioned 4 factors for an army where we need dollars. Why would you pick on just one aka arms purchasing.

Also

please tell us if Chinese government will accept 100% payment for JF-17 kits in Pakistani rupees.

Thank you.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

My dear Chinese friend.

you should tell us to be like you when it comes to hoarding dollars and Euros.

I am sure you know the current amount of dollars and Euros reserves with Chinese government.

I am sure you do.

Around $3.6 trillion at last count, not including the assets held by the CIC (China Investment Corporation) which was hived off from the main forex reserves a while back.

Unofficially, who knows. The Chinese government often disguises bond purchases by buying them under the names of various companies.

The reason we can collect so much foreign currency, is because we had Deng Xiaoping who reformed our administrative and economic system. He made us efficient, and we became competitive in the global economy.

That's the step Pakistan needs to take first. Reform the system, make it efficient. Then you can collect as much foreign exchange as you like.

 

[FaujHistorian]

By this logic you need to abandon your army, air force and navy and just have a few thousand or so people manning nukes, missiles, labs etc. I wonder why the whole western world missed on this "brilliant" idea. Be sure to reach out to the pentagon -

Awesome observation. Thank you.

Boy, you are one smart dude from the land of ..... I really mean it, no puns, no satire just plain, honest observation

Thank you.

I could have given similar numbers from Indian, Chinese, s, korean reserves as well.

But I hope one example is good enough for now.

 

[T-123456]

This thread is a humble effort to point out an obvious thing.

Dependence of ALL modern armies on dollars and Euros.

The two hard currencies are pivotol in the survival of any nation in general but army in particular.

Yes, countries like Pakistan can feed and perhaps clothe an army of a million or so.

But that will only give us good looking smartly dressed men and women,
who look awesome in the parades
But utterly useless in a war.


Why I say this?

Well this is a defense forum, so obviously most of you are familiar with latest tech and weapons, and logistics that form the backbone of an army and gives it a chance to be successful on the battlefield considering all other factors such as numbers and terrain and training to be comparable.


Let's start with #1 need for the army, any army.

Any guess?


Well in my humble observation, it happens to be fuel.

That means diesel and gasoline (petrol) for ground forces and mainly jet fuel for PAF
And you need huge amount of dollars to import the fuel.


#2 need is obviously the spare parts to maintain existing weapons, trucks, jeeps and everything in between.
Again you need huge amount of dollars to import the spare parts even when the seller is willing to give you the stuff. And hopefully Pakistan is not under any kind of sanctions.


#3 ordinance
Pakistan does make a lot ordinance inhouse. But the precious metals or metals needed, or high tech electronics for smart weapons etc. they all need a lot of dollars.


#4 Acquisition of newer weapons and tech
Again any country like Pakistan needs huge amount of dollars to acquire new weapons in a fast changing technology environment.



For #1-4, my guess is that Pakistan needs at least $50 billion a year that happens to be 1.5 to 2 times the dollar portion of our budget for the whole of Pakistan. or almost 4 times our dollar/Euro reserves.


This is why our army despite all its Marshal qualities, will continue suffering from lack of training (no fuel, no spares, no ammo), and lack of the latest tech.



Then the question is.

Are we as a nation, willing to do everything we can to earn dollars and Euros and help our Army to become a decent level of deterrence and ward off any designs against our country's solidarity?


Are we?


And if we are not.


What we all should be doing to allow our nation and our army to earn as many dollars and euros as possible.


Thank you.

The first thing you should do is ''clean the house''.
After that you start,
With all the mineral deposits you have,you could become a G-20 country in no time(there is your $50 to cover the needs of the armed forces).
Industrialisation should be the next step,make it easy for foreighn companies to invest in your country,open up.
Labor is cheap,so use it.
Use your strategic position(gateway to the ME,Iran,China,India etc..)open a international sea port(invested by foreighn companies)with warehousing.
Railways from Europe/Rusia to China/India/Korea.
Infrastructure,start with the big cities(sewerage,canals for flooding,asphalt roads etc..)
inhouse production of primairy military needs.
JVs with other nations(like you do with the JF-17).
Do business with all possible partners.
Education for rural areas(mandatory).
Send student financed by the government to study abroad in various complex fields.
Corruption should be severely punished.
Feel free to fill in the gaps.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Around $3.6 trillion at last count, not including the assets held by the CIC (China Investment Corporation) which was hived off from the main forex reserves a while back.

Unofficially, who knows. The Chinese government often disguises bond purchases by buying them under the names of various companies.

The reason we can collect so much foreign currency, is because we had Deng Xiaoping who reformed our administrative and economic system. He made us efficient, and we became competitive in the global economy.

That's the step Pakistan needs to take first. Reform the system, make it efficient. Then you can collect as much foreign exchange as you like.

Thank you.

with $4 trillion that is 4000 billion dollars. That is an awedome number


This is in fact 285 times the reserve we have in Pakistan. But Chinese population is only 4-5 times more than us.

That should bring some of our Jihadist Mullahs down to ground.


285 times.

So with 4 trillion in hand, China can buy 6, 10 or 50 nuclear plants, I mean not only the nuclear plants but their designs too.


But Pakistanis want to go beg for one and even that on loan.


So even though we talk about military in this thread

the whole nation and economy depends on dollars and euros.


how do you think China is buiding one of the most modern military?

using a fraction of the 4 trllions. Just a tiny fraction.



And this is the point I want to bring home to my fellow Pakistani posters on PDF.
\





==============================
Please note

We were forward looking free market (with some exceptions) in the 60s.
So in many ways we were what Chinese system is today. We had good trade going with the West, like China of today
We had good dollar reserves thanks to the trade with West.
Karachi airport was hub of international flights.


And guess what

Now we have moved to become what China was during Mao's time.

Isolationist, suicidal, and utter contemptuous of Western values.
and very few dollar reserves.


So it is the mentality.

and not just reformation of the system.

 

[Slav Defence]

No,we are not doing anything @faujihistorian,this is true.
I ask you my bro,how can we?
-When we are already utilizing our 'remaining amount' in WOT
-When our civil regime consist of insincere and corrupted politicans?
-When due to presence of such people,our infra-structure is moving towards collapse?
-When we have no alternative system to work,since our democratic system is degenerated into tyrannical lobby system?thus refraining 'implementation' of various 'bright plans' by them?
-When Qadir pur gas fields are sold out?and more corruption cases like this?
-Revenues?proper tax system?lol,a big lol...
Suggesting alternative systems to make $$ is infact a secondary question,I ask you the basic question that do we have such 'leaders' who have such 'tendency' to implement these systems?who will work with dedication and without corruption?

 

[FaujHistorian]

No,we are not doing anything @faujihistorian,this is true.
I ask you my bro,how can we?
-When we are already utilizing our 'remaining amount' in WOT
-When our civil regime consist of insincere and corrupted politicans?
-When due to presence of such people,our infra-structure is moving towards collapse?
-When we have no alternative system to work,since our democratic system is degenerated into tyrannical lobby system?thus refraining 'implementation' of various 'bright plans' by them?
-When Qadir pur gas fields are sold out?and more corruption cases like this?
-Revenuesproper tax system?lol,a big lol...

WoT can be a blessing or it can be a curse.

We have with our hands made it a curse.

And

yeah other things are important the way you listed.


Just see what China or Turkey is doing.

If we the people of Pakistan try to emulate the values of Turekey or China

We too can have substantial dollar reserves.

But unfortuately our educated elite right now are behaving like North Koreans and Somalians, and Afghanis

And not like refined people from china, Tureky or S. Korea

Oh by the way

S Korea has 300-400 billion dollars in reserve.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Please note

We were forward looking free market (with some exceptions) in the 60s.
So in many ways we were what Chinese system is today. We had good trade going with the West, like China of today
We had good dollar reserves thanks to the trade with West.
Karachi airport was hub of international flights.


And guess what

Now we have moved to become what China was during Mao's time.

Isolationist, suicidal, and utter contemptuous of Western values.
and very few dollar reserves.


So it is the mentality.

and not just reformation of the system.

Yes, I have heard Pakistan in the 1960's had a similar economic system to ours today.

So it's not impossible to go back to that.

We are in fact also still continuing our market reforms, even looking to liberate the Yuan exchange rate:

China central bank suggests faster tempo for freeing yuan| Reuters

Among the other reforms that were announced a month ago:

China’s economic reforms: What you need to know

 

[Slav Defence]

WoT can be a blessing or it can be a curse.

We have with our hands made it a curse.

And

yeah other things are important the way you listed.


Just see what China or Turkey is doing.

If we the people of Pakistan try to emulate the values of Turekey or China

We too can have substantial dollar reserves.

But unfortuately our educated elite right now are behaving like North Koreans and Somalians, and Afghanis

And not like refined people from china, Tureky or S. Korea

Oh by the way

S Korea has 300-400 billion dollars in reserve.

My dear bro,what should we do?is a secondary question,let me explain:
'you need a key to open the door'
when you don't have key,or any other alternative,how will you open the door?
Applying the same logic here,I will say that 'get the leader first',unfortunately we have 'mean' politicans but not 'leader',the day we will get a sincere leader,I assure you that we will achieve impossible,but for that,we need a sincere 'leader',which we lack,sadly!

 

[FaujHistorian]

...',the day we will get a sincere leader,I assure you that we will achieve impossible,but for that,we need a sincere 'leader',which we lack,sadly!

Well said.

Just a minor change to what you said.

Leadership is not just IK, NS, Altaf

Leadership is at the level of mohalla, development, ilaqa, city, state/province.

That's the bottom up approach we need

This is how it worked for China, S Korea, and even India.

you and I need to change first

we need to be sincere about our army and our economy (as one is extension of the other).

only then our leadership will make it a priority.


peace

Yes, I have heard Pakistan in the 1960's had a similar economic system to ours today.

So it's not impossible to go back to that.

Off course.

If a train is off its track

the idea is to put it back on the track


However we in Pakistan have gotten utterly confused as to which track our nations train should be.

And this is why no dollars/euors.

And

thus no army or economy (as one is extension of the other).



IN 60s we were somewhat similar to modern day China

in 70s we started copying mao and Zho en li

in 2013, we still want to be Mao and Zhao

without realizing and accepting that even Chinese have largely abandoned Mao and Zhao.

Strange.


isn't it.

 

[Slav Defence]

Well said.

Just a minor change to what you said.

Leadership is not just IK, NS, Altaf

Leadership is at the level of mohalla, development, ilaqa, city, state/province.

That's the bottom up approach we need

This is how it worked for China, S Korea, and even India.

you and I need to change first

we need to be sincere about our army and our economy (as one is extension of the other).

only then our leadership will make it a priority.


peace

When on earth did I said that our leader must be like Mr.Khan or Mr.Sharif?in case if you haven't noticed,I myself has defined and cursed this so-called tyrannical lobby system which has nothing to do with democracy!
Second,this 'gali or mohalla' leadership also requires 'party tickets' which is indeed harsh truth my friend...even you will only get 'scope' or chances in your study when you will join some political party in your university!
I have earlier suggested alternative system in my report which you will find in database

 

[RangerPK]

My dear bro,what should we do?is a secondary question,let me explain:
'you need a key to open the door'
when you don't have key,or any other alternative,how will you open the door?
Applying the same logic here,I will say that 'get the leader first',unfortunately we have 'mean' politicans but not 'leader',the day we will get a sincere leader,I assure you that we will achieve impossible,but for that,we need a sincere 'leader',which we lack,sadly!

In democracy you don't have "leaders" but "representatives"..

 

[Slav Defence]

In democracy you don't have "leaders" but "representatives"..

...however in current scenario,we need a leader rather then a representative!

 

[FaujHistorian]

...however in current scenario,we need a leader rather then a representative!

I hope we are not getting to the old adage


-- Na 9 mun tail ho ga
-- na Radha Naachay gi