Featured Pakistan Navy ATR72 at Mönchengladbach Germany for conversion into a Sea Eagle

[BHarwana]

You are comepletly wrong here, ask anyone who has anything to do with naval aviation. There is no way a ATR-72 has a longer loiter time then a P-8. No way. This is like saying black is white and white is black.

You made a big mistake and now you simply do not have the modesty to admit it. Anyone on this forum will confirm I am right.

Sir I am not trying to prove you wrong but it is my humble attempt to make sure your concepts are clear. what is P8I station time?

Sir this is for Sea eagle

 

[Yasser76]

Sir I am not trying to prove you wrong but it is my humble attempt to make sure your concepts are clear. what is P8I station time?

Anyone knows that on station time depends on the distance to station, Wiki gives a 4 hour on station time for a 2,222km transit to station. An ATR -72 cannot even fly 2,222km to get that far in the first place. A P-8 can fly 2,222km, spend 4 hours on station then fly back 2,222km. Do you understand that concept?

 

[BHarwana]

Anyone knows that on station time depends on the distance to station, Wiki gives a 4 hour on station time for a 2,222km transit to station. An ATR -72 cannot even fly 2,222km to get that far in the first place. A P-8 can fly 2,222km, spend 4 hours on station then fly back 2,222km. Do you understand that concept?

Sir you want to track submarines or do cargo deliveries here? A Submarine cannot go 2222km in 4 hours you need more flight time. Please understand that thing kindly.

 

[Yasser76]

Sir I am not trying to prove you wrong but it is my humble attempt to make sure your concepts are clear. what is P8I station time?

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Sir this is for Sea eagle

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You are actually proving me right here, you are comparing ATR-72s total endurance with P-8s in station time, you realise that they are both seperate things right? Endurance is moment plane takes off to moment it lands, thats 9 hours, loiter time on station does not include time it takes to get on station (in this case 2,222km there and 2,222km back), if you take that into account you will get your answer.. P-8 will have total edurance of around 14 hours

Sir you want to track submarines or do cargo deliveries here? A Submarine cannot go 2222km in 4 hours you need more flight time. Please understand that thing kindly.

Are you able to read properly? The 2,222km is transit from P-8 base to the loiter area, it has nothing to do with submarines. It could be that P-8 has to fly from Indias coast to Nicobar Islands were it will loiter. Please do not know make comments on things you simply do not understand

 

[BHarwana]

You are actually proving me right here, you are comparing ATR-72s total endurance with P-8s in station time, you realise that they are both seperate things right? Endurance is moment plane takes off to moment it lands, thats 9 hours, loiter time on station does not include time it takes to get on station (in this case 2,222km there and 2,222km back), if you take that into account you will get your answer.. P-8 will have total edurance of around 14 hours

Sir you are correct my apologize I even tried to have discussion with you. now if you are happy can we focus on the issue, which is tracking submarines not cargo deliveries.

Sir 2222distance /798speed = 2.8 hours + 4 hours = 6.8 hours for P8I total endurance agreed?

Sea eagle still 9+ hours endurance.

so which can track more?

 

[Bilal.]

Sir I am not trying to prove you wrong but it is my humble attempt to make sure your concepts are clear. what is P8I station time?

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Sir this is for Sea eagle

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Brother, one for P8 is citing its time in station and the one for ATR is citing its endurance. It’s two different things.

Endurance is total flight time, where as on station time is loiter time on area of interest after flying to it.

Can you post the total endurance of P8? That will give us clear picture of how the two compare.

 

[Yasser76]

Sir you are correct my apologize I even tried to have discussion with you. now if you are happy can we focus on the issue, which is tracking submarines not cargo deliveries.

Sir 2222distance /798speed = 2.8 hours + 4 hours = 6.8 hours for P8I total endurance agreed?

Sea eagle still 9+ hours endurance.

so which can track more?

Again, you have to multiply 2222km distance by 2, as it has to go to and BACK from the station area, secondly you are comapring a fully loaded P-8 with a "clean" ATR-72

 

[PAR 5]

For the concerned here let me simply say for PN LRMPA, no SWORDFISH, no AIRBUS, no BOIENG, no P8A, no Chinese or Japanese etc.

The aircraft PN has selected is EMBRAER Lineage 1000 series.

That should be enough for now

 

[YeBeWarned]

For the concerned here let me simply say for PN LRMPA, no SWORDFISH, no AIRBUS, no BOIENG, no P8A, no Chinese or Japanese etc.

The aircraft PN has selected is EMBRAER Lineage 1000 series.

That should be enough for now

Interesting choice for the Plane, so I assume that they are going to be fitted with EW systems + Radar from a third party source ?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Interesting choice for the Plane, so I assume that they are going to be fitted with EW systems + Radar from a third party source ?

Basically. It'd be too early to say anything, but the subsystems they're using on the RAS-72 should be available for this project too. The only real addition would (or should) be a MAD.

For the concerned here let me simply say for PN LRMPA, no SWORDFISH, no AIRBUS, no BOIENG, no P8A, no Chinese or Japanese etc.

The aircraft PN has selected is EMBRAER Lineage 1000 series.

That should be enough for now

@Hassan Guy @Falcon26 @Akh1112

 

[YeBeWarned]

Basically. It'd be too early to say anything, but the subsystems they're using on the RAS-72 should be available for this project too. The only real addition would (or should) be a MAD.


@Hassan Guy @Falcon26 @Akh1112

it was just a assumption seeing the recent trend in PN, they have no worries about purchasing a system and later fit it with third party systems .. but i wonder if there is any LRMPA's that could/would be available to PN ?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

it was just a assumption seeing the recent trend in PN, they have no worries about purchasing a system and later fit it with third party systems .. but i wonder if there is any LRMPA's that could/would be available to PN ?

IMO if there had been another option, the PN wouldn't have gone the route of funding an original solution.

 

[YeBeWarned]

IMO if there had been another option, the PN wouldn't have gone the route of funding an original solution.

That's exactly i was thinking, they might be forced to go this much harder route because I doubt EU or America would sell anything like a LRMPA to PN these days ..

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

the latter would have a much higher payload (esp. via internal bay for torpedoes), range and speed.

What about other equipments like Radars and Sensors? Remember I tagged you in a post of mine where I mentioned 3 different types of Radars/Sensors in P8

In submarine warfare you need a static time over a region not speed or maneuverability.

You should check P8's Radar and Sensor Packages

For the concerned here let me simply say for PN LRMPA, no SWORDFISH, no AIRBUS, no BOIENG, no P8A, no Chinese or Japanese etc.

The aircraft PN has selected is EMBRAER Lineage 1000 series.

That should be enough for now

Its MTOW is very less as compared to P8

 

[BHarwana]

Brother, one for P8 is citing its time in station and the one for ATR is citing its endurance. It’s two different things.

Endurance is total flight time, where as on station time is loiter time on area of interest after flying to it.

Can you post the total endurance of P8? That will give us clear picture of how the two compare.

Okay bro let me explain it to you this way. To have a maximum range of 2222km the P8I has to travel at speed of 798km/h at a high altitude where air resistance is thin cause of it's swept wing design. If you have to do a surveillance mission lets say just at 500 km in ocean somewhere P8I will reach that spot at speed 798 km/h at high altitude to conserve fuel showing maximum efficiency but when P8I will reach the station it will have to lower it's altitude for surveillance mission reduce it speed & that will increase it's engine load to compensate for the lift due to it's swept wing design which generates lesser lift at low speeds. ATR on the other hand has a straight wing design which generates more lift at low speed but becomes less efficient at higher speeds.

The mission profile is naval tracking which requires on station time which ATR will always higher than P8I hope I have explained you the issue.

To get an idea of this just look at the design of US fighter jet F14 which uses variable wing design to solve this problem.