Pakistan may study other fighter options as US asks Pakistan to make full payment for F-16 purchase

[Falcon26]

The whole point about Congress frustration with Pakistan is that they are not doing enough, so your response is for Pakistan to do even less, to the point of even letting ISIS take hold in Afghanistan. For what result? So the US will return with boots on the ground and goodies for Pakistan? Strange kind of leverage this is.

Where do you think the blowback from this plan of yours is going to hit? Not US, I will tell you this much.

And while you give oxygen to ISIS, you want to invite China and Russia into this powder keg? I think they would rather stay home.

Well, Pakistan could simply charge the US an exuberant transit fees for their Afghanistan flights & ground transports, keep Intel exchanges at the very minimum & even mine the afghan border and construct a wall. I hope to see Pakistan grow balls and institute a sanctions of sorts on the Kabul regime too and stopping all economic activities from Pakistan to Afghanistan till they stop barking Indian tunes. This will send a powerful message and knock some sense in their heads.

 

[PaklovesTurkiye]

Well, Pakistan could simply charge the US an exuberant transit fees for their Afghanistan flights & ground transports, keep Intel exchanges at the very minimum & even mine the afghan border and construct a wall. I hope to see Pakistan grow balls and institute a sanctions of sorts on the Kabul regime too and stopping all economic activities from Pakistan to Afghanistan till they stop barking Indian tunes. This will send a powerful message and knock some sense in their heads.

If you don't mind me asking, how Pakistan should approach American public and government? What is the better way to share Pakistani narrative with general public of US and American Congress? There is a lot of negative feelings regarding Pakistan in US. How should we tackle it?

 

[Photon]

Well, Pakistan could simply charge the US an exuberant transit fees for their Afghanistan flights & ground transports, keep Intel exchanges at the very minimum & even mine the afghan border and construct a wall. I hope to see Pakistan grow balls and institute a sanctions of sorts on the Kabul regime too and stopping all economic activities from Pakistan to Afghanistan till they stop barking Indian tunes. This will send a powerful message and knock some sense in their heads.

You believe Pakistan has not tried those things?

After Salala attack Pakistan closed the supply lines to Afghanistan for almost an year.

Americans switched to Northern Distribution network.

When that didn't work, Pakistanis started demanding $5000 per Nato truck to open the supply lines.

You know what happened in the end.

A simple statement from Leon Panetta that US is near the end of its patience with Pakistan, supply lines were opened, everything was back to normal.

Pakistan can not blackmail Americans economically, US gives a lot of money to Pakistan both directly and indirectly, when it arranges for IMF bailouts, WB loans, rescheduling of Pakistan debt servicing.

Pakistanis knows, if they act too smart on Afghan front, Americans can ruin them economically.

 

[Falcon26]

You believe Pakistan has not tried those things?

After Salala attack Pakistan closed the supply lines to Afghanistan for almost an year.

Americans switched to Northern Distribution network.

When that didn't work, Pakistanis started demanding $5000 per Nato truck to open the supply lines.

You know what happened in the end.

A simple statement from Leon Panetta that US is near the end of its patience with Pakistan, supply lines were opened, everything was back to normal.

Pakistan can not blackmail Americans economically, US gives a lot of money to Pakistan both directly and indirectly, when it arranges for IMF bailouts, WB loans, rescheduling of Pakistan debt servicing.

Pakistanis knows, if they act too smart on Afghan front, Americans can ruin them economically.

Pakistan ONLY reopened the supply lines AFTER the US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton publicly apologized for the salala attacks as mandated by Pakistan. This after they repeatedly said they won't apologize.

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/07/03/world/asia/us-pakistan-border-routes/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

With regards to NATO/US switching to a northern route, the cost of this route was 87-million USD more expensive per month and much longer than Pakistani route. This was back in 2011 when the US & Russia relations weren't remotely as bad as they are today. The costs of the northern routes are at least 10x what they were in 2011 and politically next to impossible.

https://www.theguardian.com/info/2015/dec/09/removed-news-agency-feed-article

Pakistan also had the Shamsi airbase closed for US military immediately. As a result of these steps, the US stopped all drone strikes in Pakistan for months so as not to complicate the situation any further

http://m.timesofindia.com/world/us/...-33-days/articleshow/11188403.cms?referral=PM

You need to pick up a newspaper and educate yourself beyond the prisms of your Bollywood induced fantasy.

If the US ceases compensating Pakistan for costs associated with its war against terror as promised by the US government and enshrined in their own laws, Pakistan can make life difficult for the US as well. Hence why the White House and the state department are scrambling to ensure the disruptions in the Congress are contained

If you don't mind me asking, how Pakistan should approach American public and government? What is the better way to share Pakistani narrative with general public of US and American Congress? There is a lot of negative feelings regarding Pakistan in US. How should we tackle it?

It's the job of the domestic media and foreign ministry to shape and sell Pakistani narrative. Sadly, both are miserable in their jobs with domestic media in some cases more anti Pakistan than even Indian media. Unless this two things change, Pakistan's case can't be sold.

You can imagine the damage done when your former US ambassador is frequently in congress advising lawmakers to block support for his own country. The situation is so bad that even Pakistani forums and news sites like Dawn are overflowing with Indian trolls whose only agenda is to dilute and drown whatever little case that's made. You can even see it on this forum. Compare this to the space offered to Pakistani posters on Indian sites. It's an absolute censorship.

 

[Photon]

Pakistan ONLY reopened the supply lines AFTER the US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton publicly apologized for the salala attacks as mandated by Pakistan. This after they repeatedly said they won't apologize.

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/07/03/world/asia/us-pakistan-border-routes/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

With regards to NATO/US switching to a northern route, the cost of this route was 87-million USD more expensive per month and much longer than Pakistani route. This was back in 2011 when the US & Russia relations weren't remotely as bad as they are today. The costs of the northern routes are at least 10x what they were in 2011 and politically next to impossible.

https://www.theguardian.com/info/2015/dec/09/removed-news-agency-feed-article

Pakistan also had the Shamsi airbase closed for US military immediately. As a result of these steps, the US stopped all drone strikes in Pakistan for months so as not to complicate the situation any further

http://m.timesofindia.com/world/us/...-33-days/articleshow/11188403.cms?referral=PM

You need to pick up a newspaper and educate yourself beyond the prisms of your Bollywood induced fantasy.

If the US ceases compensating Pakistan for costs associated with its war against terror as promised by the US government and enshrined in their own laws, Pakistan can make life difficult for the US as well. Hence why the White House and the state department are scrambling to ensure the disruptions in the Congress are contained

First of all there was no public apology, Clinton talked to Khar on the phone.
It was just face saving Pakistan govt needed to open the supply route.

NDN was more expensive and still US managed to keep their troops.
And this was the time when there were hundred of thousands of troops coalition troops in Afghanistan, now there are only 10,000. NDN is still active, whats more Iranian route to Afghanistan is also opening.

USA has vast resources, Pakistan does not have the capacity to bleed America economically. But USA can literally starve Pakistan .

 

[ziaulislam]

First of all there was no public apology, Clinton talked to Khar on the phone.
It was just face saving Pakistan govt needed to open the supply route.

NDN was more expensive and still US managed to keep their troops.
And this was the time when there were hundred of thousands of troops coalition troops in Afghanistan, now there are only 10,000. NDN is still active, whats more Iranian route to Afghanistan is also opening.

USA has vast resources, Pakistan does not have the capacity to bleed America economically. But USA can literally starve Pakistan .

nope they can't, global dynamics have changed, they couldn't starve Pakistan in 1990s with full-scale sanctions in a unipolar world, how come they can starve us in multipolar world any more

No... Funds were available. That time PAF was flying non upgraded F-16's, which indicated that the class cockpit layout of the EFT would be too advance for the pilots increasing their failure chances at the time of conversion.

When in 2002 USA wanted Pakistan's help in the War against Terrorism PAF decided to get the existing F-16's MLU and also get 72 Block 52's. This was a very sensible move because they wore going to get the same same number that PAF was looking for. Unfortunately the Earth quake saga put PAF at the back foot and the order was cut by 50 % on the Block 52's.



How did you come to the figure of 70 million for 8 jets?

The total is 700 million for 8 jets this is 97.5 million per aircraft. Hence if Pakistan takes the European route its a win situation. They would get much more than they bargained for.

european jet would cost around 130-140 million with training and everything so f-16 will always be cheaper

but i still agree if you are gonna pay full price better but 24 odd European jets either rafale or typhoon. the amount can be paid in 3-4 years

 

[Falcon26]

First of all there was no public apology, Clinton talked to Khar on the phone.
It was just face saving Pakistan govt needed to open the supply route.

NDN was more expensive and still US managed to keep their troops.
And this was the time when there were hundred of thousands of troops coalition troops in Afghanistan, now there are only 10,000. NDN is still active, whats more Iranian route to Afghanistan is also opening.

USA has vast resources, Pakistan does not have the capacity to bleed America economically. But USA can literally starve Pakistan .

As I said, come out of your Bollywood induced fantasy. Here's Hillary Clinton's public apology shared with the media and posted on the state department's own website. The Pakistani closures cost the US more than 1 billion USD in a 7 month period, much less than what the US pays to Pakistan. In fact, Pakistan should open renegotiations on fees it charges NATO if congress continues to play a disruptive role. NATO can't afford to leave Afghanistan for at least a decade, especially not with a resurgent Taliban and crumbling Kabul government.

http://m.state.gov/md194502.htm
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/07/0...routes-to-nato-after-us-apology.html?referer=

By the way, next time use google before you embarras yourself like this. Consider this my last response to you

 

[Photon]

nope they can't, global dynamics have changed, they couldn't starve Pakistan in 1990s with full-scale sanctions in a unipolar world, how come they can starve us in multipolar world any more

Because you are more dependent on their aid now and are nose deep in debt. And America has the most say in these multilateral money lending institutions like IMF, WB etc

As I said, come out of your Bollywood induced fantasy. Here's Hillary Clinton's public apology shared with the media and posted on the state department's own website. The Pakistani closures cost the US more than 1 billion USD in a 7 month period, much less than what the US pays to Pakistan.

http://m.state.gov/md194502.htm

And it was made on the phone to khar.

Where did you come at this 1 Billion in 7 month figure from??

 

[Sankpal]

I m very much surprise after reading pakistani friends though about Taliban.

They said that .....
1.Pakistan shall stop fighting against Taliban if US will not provide f16.
2. fight against Taliban is US fight?bhai jaan school e attack US e nahi hua tha

Lol... they only stopped AID and not fighters for u........U only need to pay and it's yours

 

[Falcon26]

Because you are more dependent on their aid now and are nose deep in debt. And America has the most say in these multilateral money lending institutions like IMF, WB etc



And it was made on the phone to khar.

Where did you come at this 1 Billion in 7 month figure from??

Hillary personally called her Pakistani counterpart & posted apology on state department website.

Stop wasting my time and read the NY TIMES link I posted.

 

[Photon]

Hillary personally called her Pakistani counterpart & posted apology on state department website.

Stop wasting my time and read the NY TIMES link I posted.

Fair enough but how is it less than what US is already paying Pakistan .

From 2002 to end of FY 2012 ..Pakistan received some $25.91 Billion from US in military and economic aid. That comes out to $2.35 Billion/year.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

If you don't mind me asking, how Pakistan should approach American public and government? What is the better way to share Pakistani narrative with general public of US and American Congress? There is a lot of negative feelings regarding Pakistan in US. How should we tackle it?

Public out cry in Pakistan is enough for CNN, BBC to show as breaking news...

The other is pull out the money Pakistanis have invested in USA...

 

[Photon]

US asks Pakistan to pay for F-16s
A CORRESPONDENT — PUBLISHED 17 MINUTES AGO
WHATSAPP
0 COMMENTS
PRINT
WASHINGTON: The US State Department has said that Pakistan will have to pay from its own funds if it wants to buy F-16 fighter jets.

Pakistan had earlier reached an understanding with the US for buying eight F-16 planes. Under the deal, Pakistan was required to pay about $270m from its national funds. The US was supposed to provide the rest from its Foreign Military Financing (FMF) fund.

But at a congressional hearing on Wednesday, US lawmakers made it clear that they would not allow the Obama administration to use US funds for the deal.

On Friday, a State Department official told Dawn that Congress had placed a hold on the deal, forbidding the administration from using US funds for enabling Pakistan to buy the planes.

And on Monday afternoon, the department confirmed that Pakistan will have to use its own funds if it wants the planes.

The latest announcement practically kills the deal and Pakistan may find it difficult to buy the planes at two and a half times more than the agreed price.

Published in Dawn, May 3rd, 2016

 

[Thorough Pro]

Pakistan should immediately cancel the deal and place an order for 40 J10B's or 20 SU35's.

 

[The Sandman]

Maybe now is the perfect time to move away from F16?