Pakistan is interested in turkish MILDEN submarine project.

[monitor]

Conversation





Turan Oguz

@TyrannosurusRex

@TC_Disisleri
Bakani
@MevlutCavusoglu
’nun Pakistan donusu yaptigi aciklamalarda 2 onemli nokta var: 1)Pakistan’a ATAK helikopteri satisi henuz iptal olmadi. ABD, Pakistan’a motor ihrac izni vermedi ama birlikte baski yapilacak. 2)Pakistan MILDEN projesiyle ilgileniyor.
Translated from Turkish by

@TC_Disisleri
Minister
@MevlutCavusoglu
There are two important points in the explanations made by the Pakistani turn: 1) The sale of ATAK helicopters to Pakistan has not been canceled yet. The US did not allow engines to be exported to Pakistan, but they will be printed together. 2) Pakistan is interested in MILDEN project.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

We should forget light version of ATAK and go for the heavier one instead now. Milden is certainly a very interesting development. İf indeed it is coming from Mevlut Cavusoğlu's account and not some imposter.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

Question is why are we investing so much in submarines?
Not that I'm against it but what's the logic behind this?

 

[Titanium100]

Question is why are we investing so much in submarines?
Not that I'm against it but what's the logic behind this?

They can carry Nuclear warheads and effective

 

[Zarvan]

Question is why are we investing so much in submarines?
Not that I'm against it but what's the logic behind this?

What we did with INS Kukri is big reason behind it. Although in my opinion Pakistan needs these kind of Submarines.

Amur 950 Russia

A 26 by Sweden

Not exactly these two but we need Submarines with this kind of firepower. Torpedo tubes as well as VLS for long range land attack cruise missiles.

 

[Titanium100]

What we did with INS Kukri is big reason behind it. Although in my opinion Pakistan needs these kind of Submarines.
View attachment 707593
Amur 950 Russia
View attachment 707594
A 26 by Sweden

Not exactly these two but we need Submarines with this kind of firepower. Torpedo tubes as well as VLS for long range land attack cruise missiles.

The Milden project Submarine is more modern and comes with all these you mentioned and more. It has technology that no other Submarines have it is more modern and futuristic.


Photo Reveals Turkish Submarine Is First With New Capability

Turkey is emerging as a new player in the international submarine business. A Turkish Navy submarine was spotted passing through Istanbul on January 30 with new equipment. Trained eyes spotted an array of twelve white circles just above the waterline. This appears to be the business end of the locally developed Zargana anti-torpedo defense system.

The Zargana Countermeasure System has been developed by Aselsan to protect submarines from incoming torpedoes. It does this by launching salvos of acoustic 'deceptors' and 'jammers.' These are small torpedo-like objects which are launched from tubes under the submarine’s casing. The deceptors imitate the acoustic and movement characteristics of the targeted submarine. This misleads the torpedo into homing in on the wrong target. Meanwhile the jammers emit a broadband high-level noise that drowns out the operating frequencies of most acoustic (sonar) homing torpedoes. This sort of decoy system is known as ‘soft kill’ in defense circles.

This piece was on a forbes article that came out few months back.

Reis

 

[Cookie Monster]

Question is why are we investing so much in submarines?
Not that I'm against it but what's the logic behind this?

Subs are some of the stealthiest assets of war(generally speaking). They are not only attack assets...but are also excellent for A2/AD. For a smaller navy facing a much larger navy...where they can't compete to match enemy vessels one for one...subs are a great asset to balance out such a superiority...

...and of course there is the whole second strike capability. This last thing alone is worth its own lengthy discussion. Consider the strategic value that nukes bring into the picture...they are great equalizer...no matter how big or powerful the enemy...with nukes in play...that enemy would be deterred from attacking due to the cost they would have to pay in return. A boomer doubles that strategic value...bcuz it assures second strike capability. Even if the enemy thinks there is a tiny chance of neutralizing the first strike capability...boomers end all such hopes and dreams. In short...subs are very important...and rightfully so.

 

[FuturePAF]

Good info on Milden. I hope it comes with At least 4 VLS; like the Swedish A26, three for long range SLBM and one for 3 shorter range SLBM.
a fleet of 3-4 should allow for at least one to be on continuous patrol as a second strike force.

the rear of the sub look too short to house the volume of AIP equipment I give it long endurance. It will probably have to be extended to house more batteries and AIP equipment.

might look like the following; I guess a standard milden attack boat variant

 

[maverick1977]

Any further details on it.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

The PN's interest in the MILDEN is likely in reference to finding a successor to the Agosta 90B in the 2030-2040 timeframe. The MILDEN is far out, so this is not a near-term thing.

Now, another question, who the heck wished for this? @JamD @Tank131 @Hassan Guy

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

Subs are some of the most stealthiest war assets of war(generally speaking). They are not only attack assets...but are also excellent for A2/AD. For a smaller navy facing a much larger navy...where they can't compete to match enemy vessels one for one...subs are a great asset to balance out such a superiority...

...and of course there is the whole second strike capability. This last thing alone is worth its own lengthy discussion. Consider the strategic value that nukes bring into the picture...they are great equalizer...no matter how big or powerful the enemy...with nukes in play...that enemy would be deterred from attacking due to the cost they would have to pay in return. A boomer doubles that strategic value...bcuz it assures second strike capability. Even if the enemy thinks there is a tiny chance of neutralizing the first strike capability...boomers end all such hopes and dreams. In short...subs are very important...and rightfully so.

One entire carrier group vs 3 subs who wins?

The PN's interest in the MILDEN is likely in reference to finding a successor to the Agosta 90B in the 2030-2040 timeframe. The MILDEN is far out, so this is not a near-term thing.

Now, another question, who the heck wished for this? @JamD @Tank131 @Hassan Guy

what will become of the chinese hangor class we're getting?
So according to what you're saying our submarine fleet will not see a net increase rather this could be aimed at maintaining current numbers(Agosta+Hangor will become Milden+Hangor)??

 

[untitled]

Aren't the Turks currently building the Reis class subs

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

One entire carrier group vs 3 subs who wins?

what will become of the chinese hangor class we're getting?
So according to what you're saying our submarine fleet will not see a net increase rather this could be aimed at maintaining current numbers(Agosta+Hangor will become Milden+Hangor)??

Yep it could be Hangor and MILDEN, but I think the PN will expand the submarine fleet over the long term. Just a wild guess on my part, but I can see the PN trying to achieve a 1:1 ratio with the IN in conventional submarines and anti-sub warfare aircraft.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

Yep it could be Hangor and MILDEN, but I think the PN will expand the submarine fleet over the long term. Just a wild guess on my part, but I can see the PN trying to achieve a 1:1 ratio with the IN in conventional submarines and anti-sub warfare aircraft.

From what I've read on reddit and on here. İt seems it is very hard for aircraft to penetrate cumulative force of a carrier group.

How does a pack of say 2-4 submarines perform against a carrier group?

Aren't the Turks currently building the Reis class subs

Yeah that's correct and according to this infographic:

İt seems Milden is aimed at making a bigger, better more indigenous submarine. Designing the hull is a big deal. But equipping it with the requisite subsystems and armaments is even a bigger deal in my eyes and İ think shows Turkish defence industry growth from a grass root level. Something which we should learn from, instead of being stuck with hiccups in form of HİT and POF.

 

[Cookie Monster]

One entire carrier group vs 3 subs who wins?

From what I've read on reddit and on here. İt seems it is very hard for aircraft to penetrate cumulative force of a carrier group.

How does a pack of say 2-4 submarines perform against a carrier group?

It depends greatly on the sensors on board the sub...and the sensors onboard the vessels comprising the carrier battle group...along with the training of the crew on both sides.

...but just to show an example of how subs can triumph(again...dependent on a ton of variables and this "win" isn't a guaranteed thing)
Swedish Sub - War Gaming

See below...for a detailed/informative video.