Pakistan has right to retaliate Nato strikes, says Musharraf

[cactuslily58]

Free hand....I think you have forgotten what has been happening with the indian army in Kashmir. That is what we call a free hand.

And BTW thanks for your "help" that 'bastard' is sitting in afghanistan.

We were discussing the ISI not the IA.

The truth is that when you want to play too many games simultaneously an odd game goes wrong. This is what has happened, you cannot get cash from Uncle Sam, Keep the Gen in office, put a " Democracy" board on the shop , try & run the show in Afghanistan etc etc together. They all have conflicting parameters & requirements.

& BTW the gent in Afghanistan is sitting with the benign help of Uncle Sam who just for the record is also the reason why the Gen is still there in Islamabad.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Ohh please! i' m sick of your crap posts. You have nothing else to say related to this thread other then what you have written above and that too repeating over and over again kinds of show what state of mind are you in. As for Musharraf, he is an intellect guy, but not Gilani, Gilani is just a mere tool of Mr. 10% and i for one have no hope in him. Hes just one of those guys who say yes sir.

Of course my posts are crap since you are dumbfounded.

I do relish your mannas from Heaven!

The second coming of Christ I reckon.

That said, you should hone up your intellect to understand subtle nuances and not take them to be the same thing. Your posts would look plebeian, pedestrian and an cracked record. However, that is where there is the difference - I see cracks in the rays!

Whatever makes you ridicule your own PM when he is the choice of the awam.

Do you really have such a low opinion of the Pakistani awam and that you are sole intelligent person left in Pakistan?

 

[opinion786]

Salim;178448]Opinion, Paksitani econmy boomed. Check your trading partners and see how much of it depended on the West. Check the assistance given by the WB and IMF. This is what made the economy boom!

And you are right that common sense dictates that Pakistan cannot fight the USA and that is what I was trying to say too!

Yes, I have checked all our trading partners, and the assistence by WB and IMF, Japan, etc

Their aid & assistence is average $1.5 billion annual. That makes it to $12 billion in 8 years.

While our Economy boomed by $85 billion in these 8 years! Inflation adjusted.

Even the Karachi Stock exchange market capitalization boomed by $70 billion (which has only 2-3% foreign investment). These were all due to Macro-economic, fiscal policies, and micro-economic management.

Not only Pakistan ..... India, Bangladesh, Sri-Lanka, etc ..... no South Asian country can fight the USA & NATO combined .... commom sense dictates.

 

[IceCold]

Of course my posts are crap since you are dumbfounded.

I do relish your mannas from Heaven!

The second coming of Christ I reckon.

That said, you should hone up your intellect to understand subtle nuances and not take them to be the same thing. Your posts would look plebeian, pedestrian and an cracked record. However, that is where there is the difference - I see cracks in the rays!

Whatever makes you ridicule your own PM when he is the choice of the awam.

Do you really have such a low opinion of the Pakistani awam and that you are sole intelligent person left in Pakistan?

I'll try to refrain my self from answering your whole post as its more of a rant then anything more useful and also will hijack the thread. However let me answer to your last line, i have highlighted the part i am referring too so that you don't mix things up and take a meaning of your own as usual. Yes i do have a low opinion about our masses, there is not doubt in it. I am not the only intelligent person, i'm sure you can find many more here even more then myself however when you talk about the masses, mostly people are simply unaware of whats going around them. They only know whats happening inside their homes or for that matter in the neighbors house. Here people don't cast a vote judging a party's caliber instead the choice is made on baradery system. I hope you can understand what baradery system is call is in other words Feudal system. For example my house maid gave vote to PP. Not only she but her son actually picked and dropped other relatives of theirs to the polling station to vote for pp. I asked why she voted for PP? her reply was simple because her husband use to work in an PP office before his death. So certainly no awareness of what's going around her or what kind of leadership we require or what kind of tough circumstances Pakistan is in, instead because her husband worked there so she voted them. Kind of funny but at the same time very disappointing because these people form the masses and as a result of their lack of knowledge given votes, others suffer more importantly Pakistan suffers.

 

[araz]

Hello guys.
I dont think anybody has commented on a very important aspect of this news. The timing of this interview is importanrt in that The PM of Pakistan is currently in USA. There could be 2 reasons why it has come out at this time. Firstly, Musharaf has lent support to the political setup and reinforced Pakistans sovereignty and intolerance to cross border adventurism from all parts of the establishment. On the other hand this could make life difficult for the PM and makethe PM look like a powerless fool, and reinforce that the real power lies with him or the Army. This would be a counterproductive step and would cause USA to reinforce Pakistani democratic setup, it may also cause them to reconsider their moves to limit military aid. In diverse ways it works for Pakistan , but bad for Political setup in case of the latter sirtuation.
Araz

 

[Xeric]

We were discussing the ISI not the IA.

The truth is that when you want to play too many games simultaneously an odd game goes wrong. This is what has happened, you cannot get cash from Uncle Sam, Keep the Gen in office, put a " Democracy" board on the shop , try & run the show in Afghanistan etc etc together. They all have conflicting parameters & requirements.

& BTW the gent in Afghanistan is sitting with the benign help of Uncle Sam who just for the record is also the reason why the Gen is still there in Islamabad.

I hope you are not haunted by intuitions. Well this what you think and people like you believe. We are talking global here. Please don't share the thoughts of the common man sitting at a chai wala stall.

 

[megatron_404]

on a lighter note.. musharaff is being sidelined constantly.. not far from now he wont have much left to talk about rights or pakistan.. I thought most of Pak media was against mushy. Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Hello guys.
I dont think anybody has commented on a very important aspect of this news. The timing of this interview is importanrt in that The PM of Pakistan is currently in USA. There could be 2 reasons why it has come out at this time. Firstly, Musharaf has lent support to the political setup and reinforced Pakistans sovereignty and intolerance to cross border adventurism from all parts of the establishment. On the other hand this could make life difficult for the PM and makethe PM look like a powerless fool, and reinforce that the real power lies with him or the Army. This would be a counterproductive step and would cause USA to reinforce Pakistani democratic setup, it may also cause them to reconsider their moves to limit military aid. In diverse ways it works for Pakistan , but bad for Political setup in case of the latter sirtuation.
Araz

The PM of Pakistan has no power as such.

The fiasco of the ISI and the Home Ministry is a case in point.

It is impossible that a PM says one thing one day and the next day, he has to rescind the same on foreign soil where he has gone to assert the will of Pakistan!

I am sure the US will not be impressed with what the PM has to say since he would appear to be only a second fiddle to the real power behind the throne!!

It is time that Pakistanis realise and do an introspection. No matter how rotten a civilian govt may be, it is the civilians who run the country and not the military or the ISI. If authoritarian agencies get an upper hand, then it becomes a chaos!

India is no shining example. Our civilian govts have survived even if they were equally pathetic. But at least, it is the will of the people to sink or surface and not the will of a coterie of elite who assume the grandeur and position of the Almighty!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The fiasco of the ISI and the Home Ministry is a case in point.

The ISI fiasco is entirely of Zardari and from association Gillani's making.

A decision of such import made without consulting even the cabinet, coalition allies and parliament was bound to boomerang, and it did.

The other political parties have cause for tremendous concern given the uses the ISI can be put to.

There is nothing but criticism and disbelief in the editorial and opinion pages over this move of Zardari.

The insult to Gillani was in fact the move to take away the ISI from under his control, and trying to suggest that it would be under civilian control when run by an unelected Zardari lackey.

Gillani is elected and a civilian Prime Minister - I fail to see how an argument for 'civilian control' can be made when moving the ISI out of his control and to an unelected Interior Minister.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Some links please.

Indeed that may have been wrong, but it could have waited till the PM hit Pakistani soil and found some politically correct escape route.

Right now, he appears to be a puppet not of Bush, but of the ISI and Kiyani and does no great shakes for Pakistan's image which is taking a huge beating over the Taliban issue.

Some respect for the office of the PM must be shown!

Some concern for Pakistan as a nation should also be shown and not the power of the Army and the ISI.

Could it be that Zardari, inspite of his bad reputation, is genuinely interested in consolidating Pakistan's gains by shaking off external issues that are sapping Pakistan for its own rise as an economic powerhouse shed of wasting away on adventurous schemes?

Just a thought. It is because Pakistan's reputation of having a finger in the pie of all hassles including international terrorism off the madrassas is making Pakistan go nowhere.

If Pakistan is seen to be a country that is insular for its own progress, then all these allegations would be put to rest and Pakistan become a powerhouse in its own rights!

Say what you want, Musharraf was doing just that; of course with an eye on the local sentiments!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Salim,

Links:

The ISI flip-flop

Buffoonery with a sinister intent?

DAWN - Editorial; July 29, 2008

ISI fiasco

-------------------------------------------------------

This is not to suggest that certain reforms in the agency should not take place, but that the manner in which this 'change' was attempted was flawed.

Zardari has alienated a good chunk of the senior PPP leadership under BB, with some even going so far as to accuse him of faking her will. His perceived failure to restore the judiciary (it is his failure since he is considered to be holding all the power behind the scenes), tackle economic issues effectively and other ham handed policies are only adding to his free fall.

Zardaris' plan was ill conceived, and would have had little effect, given that a civilian PM is to whom the agency reports as it is.

 

[blain2]

Some links please.

Indeed that may have been wrong, but it could have waited till the PM hit Pakistani soil and found some politically correct escape route.

It was a screw-up by Zardari and had to be reversed. The PM's office had to retract it quickly as it would have looked worse if it had been done later. All in all, not a bad deal that ISI gets to stay under the PM.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

I am not denying what you all are saying.

All I am saying when the PM is in the US and the whole world is watching, and the world is not well disposed to Pakistan, why insult the PM.

Why mus tit be done under international glare and be insulting to the fledging democracy that Pakistan has achieved after so many years and people are cynical about democracy in Pakistan.

Why heap insult in a self inflicting way?

Let him come back and quietly change it.

There is thus no doubt that Kiyani and the ISI calls the shots and democracy is just a sham!

Think it over. I say it without any malice!

If it were with India, I would kick them in the teeth!